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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

The 5:2 thread number 41: Springing into March or marching into spring? Either way, more sunshine means easier fast days! Come and join us in getting healthier, the fast way.

999 replies

BetsyBell · 15/03/2014 11:04

The continuing thread for those of us following the 5:2 fast or other forms of fasting such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012 and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat normally - or approximately your Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE - see explanation below). 4:3 is the same except you fast on 3 days in the week. Alternate-day fasting (ADF) is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. 16:8 is another form where you stick to only eating in an 8 hour window each day, therefore fasting for 16 hours each day.

By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low; around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.

You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.

WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website or app many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a TDEE calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

NFD = Non fast day.

NSV/LSV = Non scale victory/Lifestyle (change) victory.

Michael Mosley has a website to accompany his book on the subject. Please go check it out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

Lurkers and new starters: please just jump in and post - you'll find a lot of support here and we’re a friendly bunch.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

Other Threads
All our previous threads can be found by browsing through the fasting section of the site.

Tips and Links : breadandwine’s resource for some of the tips and links that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

Inspirational: eatriskier’s thread has some lovely inspiring stories which are worth checking out if you want some motivation to get started or keep going through a plateau. Please add your own too.

Recipes: frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

Exercise: bigchocfrenzy has an incredibly informative and helpful exercise and fitness thread for discussion and advice on combining 5:2 with an exercise regime.

Maintaining: If you've been at this a while and are moving on to maintaining your goal weight, there is a thread here to discuss that.

Other links
This is a BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon - link to that programme here.

This Telegraph article comments on the diet and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley himself, very informative if you're just starting.

This blog post gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

This link nicely demonstrates that there are many ‘right’ body shapes and types, because what we are actually aiming for is low body fat for fitness and health.

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5lbs reduction in body weight and a 4cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant. It also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

If you’ve been researching IF you may have come across this article which is highly negative about women with BMI in the normal range. Here’s our response to that:

  • With a healthy BMI, those who want to be leaner will usually find weight and waist loss to be much slower than for overweight folk, since, less fat and inches are available to lose.
  • The women with healthy BMIs already had healthier blood sugar than the men in the study. Hence nothing really needed improving.
  • Women who have had health problems on IF were NOT doing 5:2, but the
much tougher ADF or 16:8, ^combined with heavy lifting (often multiples of body weight) AND were often starting from already ultra-low BF 12-16% range.^

-Many were already missing periods or had EDs before IF, due to the low BF %, over-training and over-stressing.

5:2 is a gentler form of IF than ADF or Leangains and there’s plenty of anecdotal evidence from longterm 5:2ers, now with healthy BMI, who are continuing to have very positive results and experiences on this WOE.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful.

A HUGE THANK YOU to Greeneggsandnicht for putting together all this info and resources into one concise OP text, much appreciated by so many 5:2ers!

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this way of life!

And lastly, a few FAQs/Healthy tips :

  • WATER: Start each day with a pint of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • Hot drinks: no limits on tea or coffee any day, just note any milk / sugar calories on FDs.
  • FDs: concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Old hands skip breakfast & save most cals for supper.
  • NFDs: no rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar, artificial sweeteners, fizzy drinks, junk food. A few treats per week are good though! Aim to average TDEE over NFDs each week, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • CLENCH for health: men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily.
  • Do NOT fast: if pregnant, under 21, have EDs, any illness, even a bad cold. When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So eat to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks.
  • Check with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate).
  • BREASTFEEDERS: start with 1000-cal FDs; optionally, reduce to 700 cals gradually. You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • SLEEP: everybody needs enough sleep, or weight loss may be slowed.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss if you you do NOT eat back exercise calories. Fasted training can burn more fat. HIIT works well with 5:2/IF.
OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
zedzedzed · 19/03/2014 08:58

BTW really interesting segment on fat in our diets on bbc breakfast just now, documentary coming on soon called Cereal Killers by Aussie athletes who've adopted a higher fat diet and dumped cereals.

Runlikeareindeer · 19/03/2014 08:59

But I LOVE cereals! ;)

IPokedABadgerWithASpoon · 19/03/2014 09:03

Was also going to post the same - FD here and I want to eat! The kids are having chocolate brioche for breakfast and Im sat here with my crappy tea! Might be getting through today 1 hour at a time!

beanandspud · 19/03/2014 09:49

Morning all! This must be the fastest moving thread (no pun intended Grin) on MN - blink and you miss 256 posts?!?

Lots of inspiring SVs and NSVs - well done!

Another FD today and it feels as if it's going to be a long one. Not ideal but I have consecutive FDs again this week due to work and other commitments. Yesterday was fine but today I just want to curl up in a ball and snooze.

CiderwithBuda · 19/03/2014 10:06

FD here today too. I'm hhuuuunnnngggrrry!

Have DS off school 'sick'. Still well enough to have Nutella on toast however. I think it was the fish and chips tbh. Happened once before from the same place. I didn't eat the fish last night but he did. He felt 'odd' when he woke up - said his tummy felt empty but he could still feel full from dinner. I had that last time. Felt it was all just sitting there undigested. Won't be doing that again.

Have taken car in for service and walked back which was 30 mins. Have to walk back to get it around 1.

Just having another cuppa and will try and keep busy. Have loads of washing and ironing to do and need to vacuum.

Overtiredmum · 19/03/2014 10:59

How come I feel so good after only one FD?? First full day of TOTM and I usually feel fat and bloated. I haven't weighed myself yet, but like others I can usually gain 5-6lbs on the first 4 days of a period. And yet I don't feel bloated and my skirt is even loose? I have a headache but apart from that I feel pretty good.

I'm slightly concerned - I have entered my breakfast and lunch into MFP and yet I STILL have 1,000 to consume today? That seems so much, and I've even deducted 15% off my TDEE for a sneaky couple of G&Ts at the weekend. Just makes me wonder just how bad my eating habits have been over the years?!

The last 2 occasions of dieting has been through Cambridge, which worked for me. Sole sourcing took away the pressure of having to decide what to eat, so I found it pretty easy, and if I'm honest, the stone I have put on now has been through wine - my total downfall, especially over the last 12 months, I increasingly found myself drinking more over a weekend, sometimes up to six bottles, which if you work out is nearly 4,000 calories - just in wine alone over a weekend. I never drank alcohol at all during the week, just on a Friday and Saturday - how bad is that?! I haven't had any wine for three weeks now and that has helped me feel better too, just a few gin and slimlines over the weekends, its really made a difference. Cheaper too! Grin

I love reading the motivational thread, have read it several times. I love reading about other peoples inspiration and what spurred them to take a totally different path of life, after only a few days, I can see how it can so easily become WOL rather than a "diet".

I have to say that my DC are my inspiration and motivation for me. Being separated from their father has been an uphill struggle for the last year, and I really worried that making the split would be so difficult for them, but they have taken my choices in their stride and I dare to say, are even blooming. They were never used to us being together as a whole family unit anyway, since he worked days and I worked evenings and some weekends, so I guess that may have something to do with it, but they seem to get better quality of time with their dad now, when they didn't before. DS is even doing better at school, which I am so proud of. I know they miss seeing my parents, but their dad still takes them to see them every few weeks. My parents made their decision to side with him when we split, I have made through these 12 months with no support, lost 80% of my friends, even received lots of abuse from my DM, but I've done it, and I've come out and I'm finally happy. Still get grief from him every now and again, but I guess that will always be the case.

Sorry for waffling! Just wanted to put some thoughts down, so thanks for reading them.

OTM x

PrimalLass · 19/03/2014 11:00

Wishing I was in the office as it's easier to do a FD there. Must keep busy.

Miffytastic · 19/03/2014 11:01

Megrim I bloomin hope so! Off to zumba tonight which means an early tea - and if I close the kitchen then that sets me up for a long period of no food into tomorrow's FD. Just need to keep on the straight and narrow today.

ErrolTheDragon · 19/03/2014 11:07

done my JM workout, just had breakfast - yog/fruit/nuts/seeds but I've changed to using a ramekin about the size of a large teacup rather than a breakfast bowl so nearer 200 cals than 300 - I'm small so using small bowls really does make sense for portion control.

runningLou - my DH likes hot chocolate made with just a spoonful of cocoa and skimmed milk - a cup rather than a mug. I've not done a calorie count but I don't think it's bad - probably not much more than Options but with nothing artificial and much nicer. I got some unsweetened almond milk to try (since BigChoc is a fan of it must be good, right?), that works for hot chocolate too though I found I needed just a touch of sweetness added. I'll try to remember to MFP it later.

This morning varying the theme I made an almond mocha - 1tsp cocoa dissolved in a decent amount of almond milk, heated and frothed, plus coffee. The froth didn't last but it still felt like a bit of a treat - must surely be a hell of a lot less calories (and sugar!) than a starbucks-style mocha.

runningLou · 19/03/2014 11:28

I love cereal too!! But have been so shocked by the amount of sugar that's in the wheaty stuff with dried fruit in, am now making my own muesli which combines oatmeal and toasted oatbran, with seeds (linseed, sesame, pumpkin). Tastes great with greek yogurt.
I've realised a lot of what I crave in cereals is the crunchy texture as I have a tendency to eat 'gloopy' diet foods e.g. low-fat yogurt, soup etc, so the oatbran adds a good amount of crunch but with no sugar, and I think oats are a lot better than wheat ...

Blondieminx · 19/03/2014 11:54

Gosh this thread moves so fast. I did my first FD yesterday and it's so nice to be eating normally today. I was fine up until 4 when I felt v hungry but was ok again after dinner. I think I came in around the 600 mark but given it was my first one and I only have just over half a stone to lose I'm
pretty happy with that!

I never realised how many calories are in fruit! 100 ish for a banana?! I love fruit and salad-y stuff but not keen on lots of the low cal veggies (celery and butternut squash in particular).

Hope everyone's getting on ok today, Friday that is really good willpower you have there!

Going to do another FD at work tomorrow. A colleague has been doing it since the start of the year with great results. Will keep an eye out for that cherry tea, it sounds lovely!

Helliecopter · 19/03/2014 12:08

OTM Don't worry about having a good old waffle! That's what we're all here for. Goodness knows I do enough of it myself!
I found that with fasting too, that it generally makes me feel less bloated. I tend to do FD-NFD-FD and by the time the next FD rolls around after 4 days of NFD I'm starting to feel a bit over-full again and ready for a FD. Quite a lot of people here say that they come to look forward to FDs. I've only done 7 FDs so far (I am in my 4th week) but I'm already looking forward to them when they come along.

NFD for me. I was doing SO well with a fruity breakfast and then I had a mini-binge of a Mr Kipling fondant fancy at home, followed by a rice krispy cake when I stopped in Morrison's Cafe to BF feed DD2. Bugger. I didn't even particularly enjoy them. Plan B for lunch - will make a nice, low cal tomato and basil soup. Had a nice windy/sunny walk to the supermarket and back.

I love cereal too. It's not unknown for me to have a bowl of crunchy nut or fruit and fibre for dinner instead of a proper meal. And it has to be crunch as well - I can't abide soggy cereal!! It's horrid how much sugar is in it though. Even stuff like Weetabix and bran flakes. I try to be careful with hidden sugar in DD's diet even though she eats chocolate almost every day in some form so I trawl the shelves for no-sugar cereals. The best I've found is Aldi's Wheat Shreds. 100% wheat and no sugar at all.

womblesofwestminster · 19/03/2014 12:21

I binged again last night. I limited it to just binging on porridge and rice cakes, so not as bad as it could have been, but it was still a binge and I still feed disgusted :( I know exactly what it was - comfort eating after a horrible day. I realized this even as I was doing it.

How do you comfort yourself without food? Can we generate a list and then I'll pin it for future reference? I'm looking for ways to self-sooth that actually work. Thanks guys Thanks

BigChocFrenzy · 19/03/2014 12:34

Well done on your 1st FD, TiredMum, Blondie. Yes, many of us find it easier just to eat 1 meal.
Absolutely great to post about your motivations or problems in your life, that's exactly why we have a support thread
Smile
Patience Miffy, you'll get there. The scale sticks for most folk a few times.

Scaleaholics: Maybe lock the scales in the cupboard and lose the key ?
If you must weigh, best to choose just after morning loo, before drinking anything. Also, weigh after an FD, not with a full tum.

Eagle TOTM temporarily adds 5-6 lb for many women, water retention.
The % water in your body can change for other reasons, such as muscle repair after strenuous exercise.
A few wees and a dump can weigh a lot.

Cider Most of us find that knees age the fastest.
Last night in CrossFit, one of the exercises in the circuit was jumping on one leg over steps and onto high banks. ffs !
I squat & lunge with much heavier barbells than the chaps, but manic one-legged jumping I didn't risk, just used both feet for an old bag version.

BigChocFrenzy · 19/03/2014 12:39

Run you work for shits, so giving them the shits via D&V would be appropriate.
Angry
Yes, oats are normally regarded as healthier than wheat, esp. for heart and cholesterol.

Giving up grains & starches is a frequent low carb or paleo recommendation, but these foods are fine in moderation.
Best NOT to give up entire food groups.

PrimalLass · 19/03/2014 13:17

I'm a scaleaholic, but if I don't weight daily I go into denial. That's how I got fat, innit.

ErrolTheDragon · 19/03/2014 13:51

I'm not a cereal eater but DH likes some - so I've got him onto bitesized shredded wheat (30g, not a bowlful) with greek yogurt, topped with some nuts, seeds and fruit of some sort. I have more or less the same but without the cereal - the seeds and nuts give a nice crunch. Just have to watch the quantity as the same volume of those would be a lot more cals than shredded wheats - but 'better' cals I think.

runningLou · 19/03/2014 13:58

This is my first ever FD ... I've had a look at the exercise thread but couldn't work this one out ... if you exercise on an FD, do you add in extra calories? If you ate 500 cals then went for a run and burned 300, you'd only have had 200 net. cals ... so do you increase to 800 for that day?
Trying to work all this out!
Doing my first ever pilates class later. Normally do spinning but thought it might be too much at the end of an FD.

Runlikeareindeer · 19/03/2014 14:09

You can't eat back calories on a FD.

Boleh · 19/03/2014 14:11

Just reporting a minor NSV - I haven't consciously given up sugar but since my cravings tend to be for savoury things I prefer to save calories for those so I guess I haven't eaten much sweet stuff other than fruit for a while. Just 'treated' myself to a tiny mini-toblerone that has been lurking in the fridge for ages, it was soo sweet 'bleugh' - I did finish it but can't see myself bothering with another. I used be able to eat half a giant bar in a go... Shock

Lou the suggestion is not to add back your exercise calories, things like MFP seem to be pretty optimistic in terms of calories burnt. If you don't add them back then whatever you burn is a bonus, if you try to add them you may end up undoing some of your efforts.

MrsFlorrick · 19/03/2014 14:44

Wow it moves fast around here.

Lovely to see so many new people joining in! Grin Welcome to you all.

And first day virgin faster popping your cherry. Well done!

Zedzed. Grin Snap. TOMT here. Not only could I eat the content of my local Waitrose but I also want to kill someone. Anyone who gets in my way (muderous hard stare)Angry

Ugh. Angry and hungry. Was it hangry someone. Called it? Well I'm fucking "hangry". And it's a FD and I've already hit my 500 cals. Angry

My only choice (for the sake of anyone close to me) is to eat back my JM workout cals for dinner.

The alternative is to drown in rivers of chocolate and weep copiously. ConfusedAngryAngry

Today needs to end soon....

CiderwithBuda · 19/03/2014 15:10

MrsF - maybe count today as a mini fast? Have something for dinner. Don't want you arrested for being hangry! Great word btw! Very descriptive.

Just back from picking my car up so second 30 min walk of the day done.

Had a 240 cal M&S Fuller Longer soup for lunch and having a 300 cal Fuller Longer meal for dinner.

RunningLou - welcome! Best not to try eat your cals back as Runlikeareindeer says. Have you worked out your TDEE for non fast days?

BigChoc - I feel everything is getting old at the same time! But I know a lot of my aches and pains are weight related so I am now super determined to shift some lard.

I'm off to New York on May 1st and am so desperate to lose as much as I possibly can by then. Even contemplating Cambridge or something similar. But I don't think I would manage to stick with it. So I'll keep at this. It seems to be working for me mentally at the moment. I feel in control. I can have it tomorrow if I want it. And I usually don't! It's not worth it.

And on 17 may I am off to Australia to see some friends I haven't seen for 13 years. Some longer. Very exciting but would so love to be slim.

runningLou · 19/03/2014 15:18

Cider, my TDEE came out at just over 2000 (that's with lots of exercise), but this seems too high for me for weight loss so am thinking of going with 1800.

zedzedzed · 19/03/2014 15:34

mrsF yes, it's the hanger. Cake Rage. DS has made himself sick from biggest tantrum ever, still ongoing, excellent, my cantankerous 98yr old granny I'm looking after at MIL's house this week while they're abroad, has just tottered in to return her uneaten lunch and announced that she 'doesn't care much for meat' this was after I bulk cooked, ground up for the toothless, portioned and froze 14 meaty meals. Is it wrong to daydream of slow, delicious murders?

My cake calories mean I'm left with a FD amount of cals for my nfd dinner so looks like I'll be making: nanny mush, minus rejected meat, baby mush from scratch, toddler dinner, regular meat & two veg DH & teenager meal & something crap for me. HANGER!

I just want to go to bed with a takeaway pizza, the rest of my cake, a fork, some Ibuprofen and a box set .
HANGER!

Ok. Rant over. Better go get a move on.

MrsFlorrick · 19/03/2014 16:20

Zed zed. Grin I feel your pain. Every fecker wants a different meal! Argh. My DC are like that at the mo. and I often eat something different to stick to FD or TDEE and DH comes in later and wants something else as well.
Well mine and DC dinner is in the oven. Fish pie and DC will no doubt complain. And DH will have to eat the reheats later or help himself to the fridge.

And yes to box set in bed alone!Confused

I'm such a failure. I should be skipping around with my DC in the garden playing with them and singing to them. Instead I'm hiding in the kitchen pretending to "tend" to dinner BlushConfusedSad
I've had over 4.5 years of it and up until about a year ago I did well and engaged continuously with DC and played with them all day long.
I just have total fatigue of the whole thing. It just does my head in and I feel terrible for DS because I'm shit mum to him. It's been fine with DD as she is now at school. Poor DS. Sad
Although he has himself and his appalling sleep habits to blame for finishing me off physically mentally and emotionally.

Wow bad day much??!! Yep. Nuff self pity back to being hangry. Angry

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