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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

The 5:2 thread number 41: Springing into March or marching into spring? Either way, more sunshine means easier fast days! Come and join us in getting healthier, the fast way.

999 replies

BetsyBell · 15/03/2014 11:04

The continuing thread for those of us following the 5:2 fast or other forms of fasting such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012 and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat normally - or approximately your Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE - see explanation below). 4:3 is the same except you fast on 3 days in the week. Alternate-day fasting (ADF) is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. 16:8 is another form where you stick to only eating in an 8 hour window each day, therefore fasting for 16 hours each day.

By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low; around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.

You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.

WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website or app many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a TDEE calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

NFD = Non fast day.

NSV/LSV = Non scale victory/Lifestyle (change) victory.

Michael Mosley has a website to accompany his book on the subject. Please go check it out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

Lurkers and new starters: please just jump in and post - you'll find a lot of support here and we’re a friendly bunch.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

Other Threads
All our previous threads can be found by browsing through the fasting section of the site.

Tips and Links : breadandwine’s resource for some of the tips and links that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

Inspirational: eatriskier’s thread has some lovely inspiring stories which are worth checking out if you want some motivation to get started or keep going through a plateau. Please add your own too.

Recipes: frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

Exercise: bigchocfrenzy has an incredibly informative and helpful exercise and fitness thread for discussion and advice on combining 5:2 with an exercise regime.

Maintaining: If you've been at this a while and are moving on to maintaining your goal weight, there is a thread here to discuss that.

Other links
This is a BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon - link to that programme here.

This Telegraph article comments on the diet and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley himself, very informative if you're just starting.

This blog post gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

This link nicely demonstrates that there are many ‘right’ body shapes and types, because what we are actually aiming for is low body fat for fitness and health.

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5lbs reduction in body weight and a 4cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant. It also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

If you’ve been researching IF you may have come across this article which is highly negative about women with BMI in the normal range. Here’s our response to that:

  • With a healthy BMI, those who want to be leaner will usually find weight and waist loss to be much slower than for overweight folk, since, less fat and inches are available to lose.
  • The women with healthy BMIs already had healthier blood sugar than the men in the study. Hence nothing really needed improving.
  • Women who have had health problems on IF were NOT doing 5:2, but the
much tougher ADF or 16:8, ^combined with heavy lifting (often multiples of body weight) AND were often starting from already ultra-low BF 12-16% range.^

-Many were already missing periods or had EDs before IF, due to the low BF %, over-training and over-stressing.

5:2 is a gentler form of IF than ADF or Leangains and there’s plenty of anecdotal evidence from longterm 5:2ers, now with healthy BMI, who are continuing to have very positive results and experiences on this WOE.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful.

A HUGE THANK YOU to Greeneggsandnicht for putting together all this info and resources into one concise OP text, much appreciated by so many 5:2ers!

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this way of life!

And lastly, a few FAQs/Healthy tips :

  • WATER: Start each day with a pint of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • Hot drinks: no limits on tea or coffee any day, just note any milk / sugar calories on FDs.
  • FDs: concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Old hands skip breakfast & save most cals for supper.
  • NFDs: no rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar, artificial sweeteners, fizzy drinks, junk food. A few treats per week are good though! Aim to average TDEE over NFDs each week, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • CLENCH for health: men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily.
  • Do NOT fast: if pregnant, under 21, have EDs, any illness, even a bad cold. When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So eat to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks.
  • Check with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate).
  • BREASTFEEDERS: start with 1000-cal FDs; optionally, reduce to 700 cals gradually. You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • SLEEP: everybody needs enough sleep, or weight loss may be slowed.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss if you you do NOT eat back exercise calories. Fasted training can burn more fat. HIIT works well with 5:2/IF.
OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
MazzleDazzle · 18/03/2014 14:44

Grapefruit sponge? Clementine butter icing?

Oy! I'm on a FD here Angry.

(Blocks out thoughts of moist, gooey crumbliness...sigh)

I can have it tomorrow! Only I can't as I'm trying to avoid sugar Mon-Fri. I have a pack of Mr Kipling's caramel slices in the fridge. Every time I see them I think 'I can have it at the weekend'.

Skipped bf today. For lunch I had a huge seeded brown roll stuffed with all sorts of goodness, followed by an apple (780 cals!). Trying to avoid snacking and so dividing my cals between lunch and dinner rather than skipping meals and grazing on junk all day.

Keep at it fasters! You're two thirds of the way there! Have a hot drink, maybe something salty to shake off the late afternoon slump. After 5pm it's downhill from there!

zedzedzed · 18/03/2014 15:31

Sorry maz look away again for a min...Hellie can I have that grapefruit recipe please?? (just quantities and any weird methods) I saw one on bakeoff and fancied it then.

mrsJ I think, if you follow the letter of the law, eat your tdee for maintaining on 5 days a week (or a couple of hundred under if you want to save up for some of my cake at the weekend!) and just do your 2 sub 500cal fast days, a couple of days apart, which gives you a calorie deficit of about 3k in a week and so you can hope to lose 1lb a week...kinda indefinitely; slow, steady,non-bingey/starvey and no foodgroups banned.

10lbs a month would be really fast for this woe and I think sometimes people struggle a bit with ADF as it seems it can be quite binge/starve if you're that way inclined, but maybe it really suits some people.

I'm just doing 5:2 as described above and have lost 23lbs of my 100lbs of babyfat in the first 8wks, but I'm counting really strictly on NFDs to try to re-educate my belly on what constitutes a human portion. I'm sure it'll slow down as I relax a little.

Maybe the trick is to get your head around eating this way FOREVER, you never stop fasting, you just change the frequency of fasts to maintain your weight at goal till death...I hope!

Let us know how you get on.x

IPokedABadgerWithASpoon · 18/03/2014 15:35

NFD day here, making roast lamb and dauphinoise potatoes, it smells so good and Im starving!

MazzleDazzle · 18/03/2014 16:08

IPoked that sounds de-lish!

Actually, I'm not on a FD! Keep having to remind myself that cos it bloody well feels like it Confused. Can only conclude that lately I've been snacking so much that my body has forgotten what it's like to wait between meals! Have drank lots of water and tea to resist the nibble nibble nibble habit.

The biscuit cupboard is staying firmly shut!

Chorizo and sweet potato Spanish omelette for dinner, with creamed spinach. Odd combo, but have a bag of Spinach that I really need to use up today. Bother, just back from the shop and forgot the sweet potato Angry! (Sigh) Off I go again then...

MrsJohnThornton · 18/03/2014 16:11

Hi mazzledazzle! You lost 23 lbs! That is great, good for you Grin

What is a TDEE and how do I measure mine?
I've never dieted before, but I really want to lose weight so I can have a boyfriend. I'm 20 now and in my friendship group I'm the only one who is a virgin and has never been in a relationship.

zedzedzed · 18/03/2014 16:22

mrsJ on the original post, the blue bit at the top of this page, there's a TDEE calculator link for you to click. Fill in your age, height, current weight and say 'sedentary' for exercise. It will tell you how many calories to eat on your 5 normal days, then eat a quarter of that number on each of your two fast days (usually about 500 cals). That way you should lose 1lb a week.
Use My Fitness Partner app to add up calories of everything you eat until you get the hang of it, make sure you set My Fitness Partner to 'maintain' weight as it's your two fast days that help you lose, not low calorie every day as it will suggest.
Good luck!

BigChocFrenzy · 18/03/2014 18:24

Welcome, MrsJ . Really good that you have started exercising.
Smile
I recommend you read the OP and start with 5:2, so 2 FDs weekly.
That gives an average 1lb loss per week, which is healthy and sustainable, so you don't binge on NFDs.

As you are younger and have a lot to lose, you might well lose more quickly anyway.
Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 18/03/2014 18:29

OMG, Badger, I looove roast lamb
Envy
CrossFitTraining and 16:8 NFD finished, so just cleaning my teeth, to close the kitchen.

MazzleDazzle · 18/03/2014 18:30

Is the link to the TDEE calculator missing? I couldn't find it. In case it is, here it is.

If you use the MFP app you can go into...

SETTINGS

then

FINTNESS GOALS

and change the cals to what the TDEE calculator recommends.

MrsJ please don't throw away your big V on the first person who's interested as soon as you've lost some weight! Many people, myself included, lost their virginity and then regretted it. You've waited this long, make the wait be worth it!

ErrolTheDragon · 18/03/2014 18:35

I can practically smell that lamb... I adore roast lamb but DD doesn't like it so we don't have it often.

Pot of butternut squash and chorizo stewing downstairs, should be nearly ready (I like it soft so do it longer than the recipe says) - and a pile of cavalero nero waiting to be cooked to go with it. Deepest green, orange and red, must be bursting with good stuff.... Smile

Not2bObvious · 18/03/2014 18:43

Hi all. Back after 4 days of a break, averaging 3.5k a day, plenty of walking done but no match for the mighty weekend away food'fest. Just completed a 24 Lof, I've about 100 cals left to bring me to 500, or I might let myself go a bit over. Very easy to rack up the numbers, even though I threw a 16:8 in there, hotel meals and big lunches fairly obliterated the aul tdee! But that's holidays for you. Thread too long to even try name check, welcome to newbies as usual - great to the names increase with each thread.

Helliecopter · 18/03/2014 19:11

Zed I used the sponge recipe from this blog but added loads more zest as I love a zingy flavour to my bakes. None of this subtle flavour jazz in my house! Buttercream I made a reduction of the juice of the grapefruit and mixed it with butter and icing sugar in the normal ratios. Topped with simple glace icing using pink grapefruit juice. Very pretty pale peachy colour. Tada!

MazzleDazzle · 18/03/2014 19:20

Hope you enjoyed your time away Not2. When I glanced over your post I thought you ment you were running 3.5K per day! Blooming hell! Then I realised what you meant...Well done for getting back on it with today's FD though. Another one and you'll have scrubbed the slate clean.

Well that's me eaten my TDEE over two meals with NO SNACKING! It's been a tough day and it's not over yet! Tea, tea and more tea.

Lunch: 780 cals
seeded whole meal sub role with butter, chicken, rocket, grated raw carrot, cheese and mayonnaise

Dinner: 980 cals
Chorizo, red onion and sweet potato omelette, creamed spinach, 2 small slices of wholemeal toast and honey (to get my sweet hit!)

Still dreaming of grapefruit cake and clementine icing though...
I CAN HAVE IT AT THE WEEKEND!

zedzedzed · 18/03/2014 19:36

Thanks hellie

Sozza maz

Clementine cake made, even with a very modest amount of butter icing I have worked out that a slice,1/12th of cake (tiny) is 471cals.

Oh well, my birthday will be renamed 'The Day of 2000 Cake Calories and Nowt Else'.

TOTM means I simply can't say no to cake.

Bugger.

ErrolTheDragon · 18/03/2014 19:46

You only have one birthday a year, zed.

One of the things I like about this WOE is that it does allow for 'feasting'. Feasting is an important part of every culture I know of - as I said yesterday, fasting on DH's birthday would have been uncivilized, I chose that word deliberately. Eating something delicious with our loved ones on special occasions is a Good Thing. So, I ate yesterday and am fasting today - 5:2 gives you flexibility. I'm not sure if I'll do my other FD thurs or fri - don't need to decide yet.

Not2bObvious · 18/03/2014 19:46

Lol Mazzle - running to the bar maybe! Managed over 7 miles walking 2 of the days, and nearly 4 miles yesterday but sadly that didn't come close to balancing the books. It's going to be a very uncomfortable week or so as I feel quite tubby and I slung out all my size 14's, so hoping I can find something nice and stretchy. Be a bitch to have to go to work in my pj'sGrin
Ahhh ladies, cake talk, whyyyyyy!!! Only joking, sounds smashing Zed but isn't it criminal how the numbers stack up? I just finished a days food at 510, not much less than that slice of cake - and for that I'd half a stone baked pizza, 2 crackers, bit of cranberry Wensleydale and 1 small bikkie. Very carby I'm sure but it all hit the spot. Although I'd murder a slice of that tomorrowWink

LakeFlyPie · 18/03/2014 20:33

1st FD nearly done Smile
Thanks for all the tips and support, so glad I have joined this thread.

Took advice and had drinks only until dinner.
Rooibos and herbal teas, Marigold bouillon broth (1 tsp with loads of hot water in a bowl eaten with a spoon!) at lunchtime and mushroom goulash with 1/3rd baked potato for dinner.
Amazed that I haven't felt particularly hungry all day and am absolutely stuffed now after a relatively small meal.
Have had a couple of coffees and counted milk cals.
Evenings would usually be my snacking time but don't feel tempted ATM and according to MFP I could have an apple or grapefruit or Options hot choc later if needed.
I was planning to Shred but thought that might be a bit ambitious on my 1st FD, will plan to do some exercise in future on FDs.

Next FD on thursday (will be at work so hopefully be more distracted than I was spending the rainy day cooped up at home with DS2 today).

Need to keep an eye on my NFD TDEEs but feeling very motivated and pleased to have D1 under my belt.

That grapefruit cake looks amazing.

Helliecopter · 18/03/2014 20:43

Erm yeah...sorry for cake talk. I'm on a FD too if it makes you feel better Mazzle At least I haven't posted a photo of it yet
I organise a Clandestine Cake Club group, which is one of the reasons I wanted to try 5:2, to allow the occasional feast on cake! I'm a lot more discerning about what I eat than when I first started though. I used to try a taster of all the cakes on offer (usually about 15!) but now I just take small crumbs of the ones I want to try.

BigChocFrenzy · 18/03/2014 21:04

Well done on your 1st FD, LakeFlyPie. You did that perfectly.

Errol You are so right that we need to occasionally feast for important celebrations.
An important reason why 5:2 is a sustainable WOL is its flexibility to fit to a normal sociable life and to enable us to enjoy these special occasions without worry.

DakotaFanny · 18/03/2014 21:08

Happy birthday zed.

Nfd for me and I have been ruuuuuuubbbbbbish......but really looking forward to fasting tomorrow. Do other people feel like that too??

TalkinPeace · 18/03/2014 21:13

so pleased that we still have new people joining in

and that we have people who used to be newcomers well settled into the grove, helping others onto the right path

IPokedABadgerWithASpoon · 18/03/2014 21:33

The lamb was lovely! Grin With garlic, thyme and rosemary and garlicly creamy dauphinoise that much garlic probably nite a good idea before work!
Going to go home now and watch some tv with a curly wurly and cinnamon tea and thats me done for the day...
FD tomorrow ( much needed, big night out in June and Im looking at dresses, why in anything over an 18 it suddenly resembles a tent?!)

Octopus37 · 18/03/2014 21:40

NFD today, know I have eaten too much again, really hard not to eat too much on NFD's, although this week is harder cause of period. Have eaten in total: 4 slices of toast with peanut butter, a large piece of chocolate brownie, 4 biscuits, a twirl bar, a few crisps, a Sharwoods Chicken Curry ready meal, a bit of mango and 1 yellow plum. Know not very good. Another FD tomorrow, am losing weight very gradually 1lb tops a week, but am only aiming to lose a few pounds so not too bad. Looked up the amount of calories I am supposed to eat to stay the same today and tbh know I eat much more than that normally, according to the calculation should probably only have 1,500 cals, whereas typically I think I eat between 2000 - 2500 cals. Know I just need to think that I am not doing too badly for me. Onwards and downwards.

Overtiredmum · 18/03/2014 21:43

FD 1 over and I feel great! Fasted all day, saving calories for dinner except for a mug of bovril at lunchtime.

Dinner was yum - 4 chicken kebabs with a massive salad, small banana with a drop of fat free vanilla yoghurt. Feel stuffed and am in bed already looking forward to a lovely nights sleep - dreaming of cake Grin

Well done everyone, sounds like everyone has had a reasonably good day!

EagleRay · 18/03/2014 21:45

Evening - FD completed! Calories came in at 658 but was quite pleased as am v sleep deprived due to domestic kerfuffle last night, AF arriving, eye infection and 13mo DD walking early this morning! Also, the work kitchen was stacked with baked good as usual (although I think a small part of me likes the discipline of FD and doing without rather than eating one and feeling guilty).

Some good news on the weight front - started just over 4 weeks ago and had steady weight loss for 3 weeks, which was enough to make me think it was working really well, and then all of a sudden my weight jumped up again! I was devasted and posted here that I thought my metabolism had gone funny. Pity I didn't check the calendar as would have realised it's the normal monthly weight gain, and although my weight went up, it was still considerably less than this time last month! And when I stepped on the scales today, a whole kilo had disappeared overnight! I've put my weight on a spreadsheet and had aimed to lose 100g per day approx and I've done exactly that (3.1kg so far)

Does anyone else experience this monthly hike in weight, and has it continued since doing 5:2?

Well done on first FD LakeFlyPie! I do my FDs on the same days as you. Hot drinks, hot drinks and more hot drinks is the way to go during the day.