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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

The 5:2 thread number 41: Springing into March or marching into spring? Either way, more sunshine means easier fast days! Come and join us in getting healthier, the fast way.

999 replies

BetsyBell · 15/03/2014 11:04

The continuing thread for those of us following the 5:2 fast or other forms of fasting such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012 and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat normally - or approximately your Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE - see explanation below). 4:3 is the same except you fast on 3 days in the week. Alternate-day fasting (ADF) is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. 16:8 is another form where you stick to only eating in an 8 hour window each day, therefore fasting for 16 hours each day.

By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low; around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.

You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.

WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website or app many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a TDEE calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

NFD = Non fast day.

NSV/LSV = Non scale victory/Lifestyle (change) victory.

Michael Mosley has a website to accompany his book on the subject. Please go check it out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

Lurkers and new starters: please just jump in and post - you'll find a lot of support here and we’re a friendly bunch.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

Other Threads
All our previous threads can be found by browsing through the fasting section of the site.

Tips and Links : breadandwine’s resource for some of the tips and links that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

Inspirational: eatriskier’s thread has some lovely inspiring stories which are worth checking out if you want some motivation to get started or keep going through a plateau. Please add your own too.

Recipes: frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

Exercise: bigchocfrenzy has an incredibly informative and helpful exercise and fitness thread for discussion and advice on combining 5:2 with an exercise regime.

Maintaining: If you've been at this a while and are moving on to maintaining your goal weight, there is a thread here to discuss that.

Other links
This is a BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon - link to that programme here.

This Telegraph article comments on the diet and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley himself, very informative if you're just starting.

This blog post gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

This link nicely demonstrates that there are many ‘right’ body shapes and types, because what we are actually aiming for is low body fat for fitness and health.

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5lbs reduction in body weight and a 4cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant. It also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

If you’ve been researching IF you may have come across this article which is highly negative about women with BMI in the normal range. Here’s our response to that:

  • With a healthy BMI, those who want to be leaner will usually find weight and waist loss to be much slower than for overweight folk, since, less fat and inches are available to lose.
  • The women with healthy BMIs already had healthier blood sugar than the men in the study. Hence nothing really needed improving.
  • Women who have had health problems on IF were NOT doing 5:2, but the
much tougher ADF or 16:8, ^combined with heavy lifting (often multiples of body weight) AND were often starting from already ultra-low BF 12-16% range.^

-Many were already missing periods or had EDs before IF, due to the low BF %, over-training and over-stressing.

5:2 is a gentler form of IF than ADF or Leangains and there’s plenty of anecdotal evidence from longterm 5:2ers, now with healthy BMI, who are continuing to have very positive results and experiences on this WOE.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful.

A HUGE THANK YOU to Greeneggsandnicht for putting together all this info and resources into one concise OP text, much appreciated by so many 5:2ers!

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this way of life!

And lastly, a few FAQs/Healthy tips :

  • WATER: Start each day with a pint of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • Hot drinks: no limits on tea or coffee any day, just note any milk / sugar calories on FDs.
  • FDs: concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Old hands skip breakfast & save most cals for supper.
  • NFDs: no rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar, artificial sweeteners, fizzy drinks, junk food. A few treats per week are good though! Aim to average TDEE over NFDs each week, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • CLENCH for health: men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily.
  • Do NOT fast: if pregnant, under 21, have EDs, any illness, even a bad cold. When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So eat to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks.
  • Check with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate).
  • BREASTFEEDERS: start with 1000-cal FDs; optionally, reduce to 700 cals gradually. You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • SLEEP: everybody needs enough sleep, or weight loss may be slowed.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss if you you do NOT eat back exercise calories. Fasted training can burn more fat. HIIT works well with 5:2/IF.
OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
LakeFlyPie · 18/03/2014 08:15

Thanks MrsF and zed, really helpful advice. Seems crazy that I'm so ignorant of calorie content, I guess that's why I'm 2 stones overweight!
Will scrap bf and consider small bowl of soup for lunch if starving by then. DP and I usually eat late (8-9) so perhaps I should eat with DC on FD.
Will try and log food on MFP to gain some 500 cal benchmarking. Off for a rooibos tea or 3 Smile

BetsyBell · 18/03/2014 08:22

lakeflypie - it doesn't take long to get a measure of your usual eating's calorie levels once you start with MFP - can be quite eye-opening! And definitely worth for a couple of weeks.

Eating earlier with the kids sounds like a good idea on FDs, as long as you don't join in with your DH's meal later as well of course Grin

Good luck with your first fast day :)

Sorry you had such a horrible day Friday so big kudos for keeping your fast day under control against all the odds.

OP posts:
zedzedzed · 18/03/2014 08:26

Good luck lake coffee,coffee,tea,tea,water,water,gum,gum,walk,busy, walk,bath,laundry,cleaning,hoovering,coffee,coffee etc etc!
I couldn't make it much past 8pm on a FD myself...I practically shove the babies to bed so I can get to my dinner on a FD!

Green and red veggies, lean protein and a tiny bit of fat form the basis of most of my FD dinners...you don't get many carbs for your cals so I save them for NFDs, (if I really need some on a FD I have a little spicy cous-cous or a small jacket spud or tiny bit of basmati).

You can have it all...tomorrow!

MazzleDazzle · 18/03/2014 08:28

Dumpy it's a new one from Twinings and is currently on offer in Tesco. I also bought their Camomile and Spiced Apple one too. Caffeine free and only 2 cals per 100 mil of brewed tea.

IPokedABadgerWithASpoon · 18/03/2014 08:29

Friday that sounds awful, think you've done amazingly well to stick to a FD with that going on

zedzedzed · 18/03/2014 08:29

Poor friday that sounds so hideous, well done for not mainlining tequila and pizza!

Overtiredmum · 18/03/2014 08:35

First FD coming up and I plan to save most of my 500 for dinner. I'll just have black decaf coffee and water with a mug of buillion (sp!?) for lunch. I'm planning chicken kebabs with mushroom, onion and peppers with a massive salad and possibly strawberries with low fat yoghurt? I still need to work it out on mfp.

I did my first Jillian michaels last night since Xmas (no more trouble zones). I took it relatively easy though cos I've been getting pains in my knee but last night was the first night I didn't get any pain all night Grin

Feeling optimistic about today, I can usually go all day without food if I don't have breakfast so here's hoping!

stowsettler · 18/03/2014 08:51

Morning! Well I completed my first FD yesterday fairly successfully. No food til lunchtime then a slimasoup and an apple a bit later. I faffed about quite a lot in the evening, put DD to bed and then, instead of sitting down with a little pre-dinner snack I went out to see my friend. Finally got to my dinner around 8pm (dry-fried chicken and courgettes in chilli and garlic with steamed broccoli, followed by 100g grapes).
I didn't find it too bad, but I was pretty tired and was in bed by 8.45pm which is no earlier really than my usual bedtime.

This morning I jumped on the scales (I know, I know, but I weigh every day so I'm used to things changing day to day) and I dropped 3lb Sun-Tue. Am feeling quite inspired and hoping to make it through to mid-morning today before eating again. As breakfast kickstarts my appetite I figure it can't hurt to wait a few more hours...

Friday that sounds really terrible, what a horrible day. I'm very impressed you managed to make it through your FD. I'm pretty sure I couldn't.

tiggermummy70 · 18/03/2014 09:14

breezes in, sets up comfy chair, plonks butt in, takes out book and pen to make notes
please excuse the kerfuffle just setting up my lurking spot!
Brew Smile

zedzedzed · 18/03/2014 09:40

Well...since nobody jumped in and told me not to make my own birthday cakecoz it's wierd, I'm doing it, ingredients bought, all laid out. Have decided on a Clementine sponge sandwich with zesty butter icing...great with a cuppa Earl Grey, probably about 400 cals per wedge, totally worth it.
But since my B-day's on a FD I'm gonna eat cake tomorrow and eat celebratory Chinese food on Friday, so just like The Queen, I will have official and unofficial birthdays which I will expect all to celebrate, parade and pay homage to the greatness of Me.

Overtiredmum · 18/03/2014 09:48

Zed that cake founds fantastic! I wouldn't even know where to begin with making a cake, I can just about manage to make packet cup cakes with the DC Grin

stowsettler · 18/03/2014 09:54

Zed, sounds lovely. I'm mega-impressed you're even considering a FD on your birthday though!

almostthereagain · 18/03/2014 09:59

Happy b'day zed!
Well done Emma I would lurrve to see 8 something on the scales again even if just for 1 dayGrin
Been a bit rubbish, had a 'light' day yesterday & didn't eat until 2pm so had a good stretch but have got family for celebratory dinner tonight so can't fast today. Hopeless planning really & weigh in day weds.
Happy fasting, hope you're listening to all the advice wombles seems we're all in agreement you need to go easier on yourselfSmile

CiderwithBuda · 18/03/2014 10:08

Zed - cake sounds yummy. I think I would swap my FD though. Couldn't fast on my birthday!

Friday - sounds like a tough day. Well done for staying in control.

Fast day went well yesterday for me. Had a slice of ham mid morning and then two boiled eggs for lunch. Dinner was a 308 calorie ready meal. I find that easier than cooking from scratch as I'm not as tempted to have more and I know exactly how many calories I've had.

I did a spinning class too.

I've just realised I don't count calories in milk on FDs. Will have to do that I suppose!

Have had breakfast this morning. Went on my cross trainer and had no energy! So had breakfast and will try again later.

Not sure what to have for lunch today but planning roast veg with chorizo and feta for dinner as have all of that in fridge and it needs using up.

Off to do a quick tidy up as have guy coming from Hilary's Blinds to measure up for blinds in bedrooms.

FridayJones · 18/03/2014 10:22

eveesmummy, I'm down under. Work rules a bit diff here, looks like an hours notice of "restructuring" is all that's required. It was lunchtime before I found out I still had a job. In hindsight (winesight?) it was like ripping a plaster off, it was over before we knew how bad it was.

But now all I'm thinking about is having a hot cross bun tomorrow(at least some things are the same).
I love hot cross buns tomorrow.
And my glass of wine is low cal wine.

Overtiredmum · 18/03/2014 10:41

Friday - an hour's notice?! That's really harsh and must be terrifying! I think I would have needed a whole bottle of wine, not just a glass! Am glad you're ok.

ErrolTheDragon · 18/03/2014 10:47

Friday, commiserations, I know how grim that is even for 'survivors' - I work for a US company, in the past they've done that sort of layoff, and they 'let go' individuals with no warning - back in the day before people even had private email that meant colleagues would just vanish without being able to say goodbye (I've re-found a few since with linkedin).

FD for me, deferred from yesterday - ok so far, one tea, one coffee and quite a lot of water. Done my JM workout (waves at LakeFly), need to get down to work.

womblesofwestminster · 18/03/2014 11:41

I had breakfast this morning. It was yummy. That is all.

Overtiredmum · 18/03/2014 12:07

Yay! Made it to lunchtime, been really busy so not really thought too much about it and am not hungry as yet Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 18/03/2014 13:27

Good for you, Stow; that loss must boost your morale.

Friday You did really well not to bury your misery in a choc mountain
(({hugs})) "colleagues packing their boxes"
Sad

Zed A great cook like you should always bake her own bday cake, so you won't be disappointed.

DontBeBlueBeARainbow · 18/03/2014 13:49

Zed birthday cake is pretty much my favourite food Blush so I often make my own to ensure I get exactly what I like!

Just tucking in to my FD cheezy broccoli and swede soup (adapted from THIS replacing potatoes with swede to reduce cals).

TwittyMcTwitterson · 18/03/2014 13:57

Friday, you make me feel bad. I was having an amazing fast day and then my PFB (2.5yo DD) decided to take Daddy as a favourite and when I ask her to come to me for cuddles etc, she says 'no, not you mummy' and 'go away mummy' which I can handle but then she gets right in there on my guilt at working and says 'you must go work, mummy' and she kept telling me there was no point cudding because I need to go away again... to work! :-( I delved knee deep into a bloody bag of haribo strawbs.

That was all in my head and i still cracked so a very big well done to you!

MrsJohnThornton · 18/03/2014 13:59

Hello everyone,
I'm Prue

I'd like to join this WOE. I'm hoping to lose 60 lbs in the next 6 months, Does 10 lbs per month seem reasonable?

I'm 20, 5'7 and weigh 195 lbs Blush

I have started doing youtube pilates videos in the evenings and I've started walking to work (1 mile each way)

I'm hoping that with 3 fast days per week I'll meet my goal of 10 lbs per month.

Helliecopter · 18/03/2014 14:19

Happy fast day anyone doing it today. Made it to about 1:30 before food and just had 150 cals of carrots, houmous and some strawberries. I'm at the Trafford centre buying a birthday present for my sister, trying to feed DD2 in the food court and ignore the smells wafting around. Mmm these strawberries are so satisfying! Actually it's not too bad, although might be time to break out the emergency diet coke. Tired today.
Will catch up on posts later properly but I'm all in favour of making your own birthday cake - yours sounds yum! I'm a keen baker. Made a grapefruit sponge for cake club last night. Yummy if I do say so myself!

MazzleDazzle · 18/03/2014 14:32

Welcome MrsJohn! Well done for starting walking and pilates: healthy habits you can keep forever. I'm a wee bit taller than you and started out at 205lb back in late November. I'm now 182lb! (does a girly twirl).

For health reasons I'd like to get my waist down to half my height (86cm) so I'm chugging on until I get there. 161 would take me into a healthy BMI but I have a large bone structure, so not going to get too hung up on that.

I'd guess that 10lbs per month is a bit ambitious, though you have youth on your side! Hopefully you haven't knackered your metabolism with years of silly fad diets/starvation. I did 4:3 to begin with (against the advice of the old-timers!) and guess what? They were right! 5:2 with a mainly healthy diet on NFD is the way to go. On 4:3 I just ate more on NFD.

Have you worked out your TDEE MrsJ?

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