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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

The 5:2 thread number 41: Springing into March or marching into spring? Either way, more sunshine means easier fast days! Come and join us in getting healthier, the fast way.

999 replies

BetsyBell · 15/03/2014 11:04

The continuing thread for those of us following the 5:2 fast or other forms of fasting such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012 and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat normally - or approximately your Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE - see explanation below). 4:3 is the same except you fast on 3 days in the week. Alternate-day fasting (ADF) is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. 16:8 is another form where you stick to only eating in an 8 hour window each day, therefore fasting for 16 hours each day.

By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low; around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.

You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.

WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website or app many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a TDEE calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

NFD = Non fast day.

NSV/LSV = Non scale victory/Lifestyle (change) victory.

Michael Mosley has a website to accompany his book on the subject. Please go check it out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

Lurkers and new starters: please just jump in and post - you'll find a lot of support here and we’re a friendly bunch.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

Other Threads
All our previous threads can be found by browsing through the fasting section of the site.

Tips and Links : breadandwine’s resource for some of the tips and links that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

Inspirational: eatriskier’s thread has some lovely inspiring stories which are worth checking out if you want some motivation to get started or keep going through a plateau. Please add your own too.

Recipes: frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

Exercise: bigchocfrenzy has an incredibly informative and helpful exercise and fitness thread for discussion and advice on combining 5:2 with an exercise regime.

Maintaining: If you've been at this a while and are moving on to maintaining your goal weight, there is a thread here to discuss that.

Other links
This is a BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon - link to that programme here.

This Telegraph article comments on the diet and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley himself, very informative if you're just starting.

This blog post gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

This link nicely demonstrates that there are many ‘right’ body shapes and types, because what we are actually aiming for is low body fat for fitness and health.

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5lbs reduction in body weight and a 4cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant. It also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

If you’ve been researching IF you may have come across this article which is highly negative about women with BMI in the normal range. Here’s our response to that:

  • With a healthy BMI, those who want to be leaner will usually find weight and waist loss to be much slower than for overweight folk, since, less fat and inches are available to lose.
  • The women with healthy BMIs already had healthier blood sugar than the men in the study. Hence nothing really needed improving.
  • Women who have had health problems on IF were NOT doing 5:2, but the
much tougher ADF or 16:8, ^combined with heavy lifting (often multiples of body weight) AND were often starting from already ultra-low BF 12-16% range.^

-Many were already missing periods or had EDs before IF, due to the low BF %, over-training and over-stressing.

5:2 is a gentler form of IF than ADF or Leangains and there’s plenty of anecdotal evidence from longterm 5:2ers, now with healthy BMI, who are continuing to have very positive results and experiences on this WOE.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful.

A HUGE THANK YOU to Greeneggsandnicht for putting together all this info and resources into one concise OP text, much appreciated by so many 5:2ers!

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this way of life!

And lastly, a few FAQs/Healthy tips :

  • WATER: Start each day with a pint of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • Hot drinks: no limits on tea or coffee any day, just note any milk / sugar calories on FDs.
  • FDs: concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Old hands skip breakfast & save most cals for supper.
  • NFDs: no rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar, artificial sweeteners, fizzy drinks, junk food. A few treats per week are good though! Aim to average TDEE over NFDs each week, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • CLENCH for health: men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily.
  • Do NOT fast: if pregnant, under 21, have EDs, any illness, even a bad cold. When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So eat to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks.
  • Check with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate).
  • BREASTFEEDERS: start with 1000-cal FDs; optionally, reduce to 700 cals gradually. You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • SLEEP: everybody needs enough sleep, or weight loss may be slowed.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss if you you do NOT eat back exercise calories. Fasted training can burn more fat. HIIT works well with 5:2/IF.
OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
Overtiredmum · 17/03/2014 11:37

Sorry, can someone tell me what HIIT is?

runningLou · 17/03/2014 11:41

Sounds like you go to a gym like mine Wombles! That sounds like a really good workout - Metafit kills me!! I would say if you do that 5x per week you need to be building in more calories on NFD. Do you exercise in the evenings?

stowsettler · 17/03/2014 11:42

Hiya, starting this for the first time. Age nearly 41, 1 DD and about 2 stone to lose in total (1 stone of that is still baby weight).

I've been successful with WW in the past but since having DD a year ago, meal planning is more of a challenge!

6 hours in and so far so good...

Oh and Overtiredmum - HIIT is High Intensity Interval Training.

BigChocFrenzy · 17/03/2014 11:55

Wombles

  • We didn't realise originally you were doing ADF. Advice is different re breakfast and total NFD cals.
We normally assume 5:2, since most here are doing that.

Some older 5:2 hands skip breakfast on NFDs, some don't.

  • We recommend NO snacks, whatever form of IF.
Better to add your desired "snack" to one of the main meals, as dessert or starter.
  • Exercise: that program is fine if you are really fit and have energy.

If you still feel tired after upping your calories and breakfast, then drop one session, or swap it for a gentle, relaxing yoga class (not one of Tip's hardcore yoga workouts with weights or BOSU, her foot around left ear)

BigChocFrenzy · 17/03/2014 12:08

Welcome RunningLou, StowSettler

Michelle Harvey's system is different to 5:2, ADF etc
Her study concentrated on healthy eating, not just weight reduction, to reduce breast cancer risks in those at high risk.

The study of hers I read had 2 consecutive days of 650 cals, Mediterranean diet. Can't remember another one with 1000 cals.

All the other researchers like Varady, Mattson etc looked at only single FDs and paid little attention to nutritional content.

This thread is for all IF. Feel free to try whichever flavour fits your lifestyle and goals.
Smile

Peplum
Just spotted your very interesting post re eating farmed/wild fish and resulting visceral fat.

Would you like to post something here as well, so it doesn't get missed ?

Runlikeareindeer · 17/03/2014 12:23

I got it! What you all talk about. My fast on Friday and it was actually quite easy. I ate with family, didn't want to snack. And next day I was hardly hungry and only ate at meal times.

Very Zen and in control!

Miffytastic · 17/03/2014 12:31

Hi all, FD for me today, going OK so far with just tea.
Have decided to try non-consecutive FDs this week, becuase last Tuesday I was ridiculously done in by the end of FD2. I was falling asleep at 9.40pm which is just not me at all. And this week I really need to work late tuesday night so I'm shaking things up a bit.

Wombles FWIW I'd say 4:3 or 5:2 might work better for you at the moment and use the NFDs to listen to what your body needs. If you're breastfeeding then definitely 3 good meals a day on NFDs IMO.

Megrim · 17/03/2014 12:37

I have the 2 Day Diet cookbook - it has meal planners, no calorie counting as such (it's done on portion control, zero carbs but lots of protein, healthy fats, some dairy and fruit / veg) but there are ready reckoner tables at the back if the book - 1000 cal max on restricted days for women to lose weight, and then approximations for calorie allowances on non-restricted days.

Just done my first big bike ride on a FD - previously I would have needed a cereal bar halfway to stop myself feeling knack erred on the way back, but today it was fine (although my legs are bloody knackered and have gone a bit wobbly wobbly).

wombles it sounds like you've been pushing yourself very hard - my GP used to say it takes your body 9 months to make a baby and 9 months to recover. ADF must be very hard, perhaps your body is telling you it's struggling - why not kick back for a couple of weeks with regular 5:2 and see if that sorts out the binges?

BigChocFrenzy · 17/03/2014 13:01

Runlikeareindeer Brilliant. You're really in the Zone.

runningLou · 17/03/2014 13:13

Megrim yes, that's what I was looking at - it suggested 1000 cal max on FD, which were consecutive. Still trying to get my head round the portion things TBH as portions seems tiny to me (this may be my problem ha ha!!) e.g. one tbsp porridge oats for porridge or 15g cashew nuts (about 4 nuts I think!).
Also find it strange about restricting fruit on NFDs as those are my go-to healthy snacks ...

PrimalLass · 17/03/2014 13:17

Wombles I am 4:3-ing. I am not normally a breakfast person at all, but I am finding that come 10am after a FD I need something substantial to eat.

FD today. I have had coffees with milk and mint tea. Looking forward to dinner - some sort of curry and cauli. I am tending to be nearer to 700 cals on the FDs, but that's fine.

Megrim · 17/03/2014 13:24

runningLou I think portions generally are pretty small - that's been my problem too! I used to Alpen for breakfast every day - one portion is four dessertspoons with some milk. DH and DS1 have Alpen by the bucketload (I think i calculated that DS1 has about 7 portions for his breakfast).

Runlikeareindeer · 17/03/2014 13:29

Thanks BigChoc! I went to get something to eat, and then thought hmmm, I'm not hungry!

almostthereagain · 17/03/2014 13:34

Hi everyone, especially newbies.
wombles I'm sure you were advised to follow 5:2 not adf last thread as you need to address eating habits & still bf? IircConfused I know you are keen & in a hurry but as is always reinforced here this is woe, sustainable. We shouldn't feel like we're punishing our bodies, I believe. Think of how yourbinges were getting under control but I think you need to slow down & be more realistic re a steadier weight loss Smile
Am def in the groove with exercise & already feeling stronger. I def seem to have had set points on my weight loss but they are slowly getting lower. Been bobbing tiresomely around current set point for some time thoughAngry

runningLou · 17/03/2014 13:34

Yes DH is the same - he'll chomp through a 1kg bag of muesli in a week! I used to have oatbran with yogurt and fruit for breakfast. Now am trying to reverse that by having yogurt (0% fat greek) with blueberries, and just a sprinkling of oatbran.
Have yet to devise a good breakfast for an FD though as I love fruit and cereal for breakfast ...

Octopus37 · 17/03/2014 14:16

FD for me today, struggling as period. Also ate too much yesterday which makes it harder. Just having chicken noodle soup, also soup for dinner

Chocupid · 17/03/2014 14:34

I'm with you Octopus FD and period and ate too much yesterday too.

I'm sat having bovril right now, think I'll do the LOF today as I know if I eat I won't stop.

Joined the gym last week and have been 3 times in gym and done a body pump class, my arms are soo weak still from breast surgery last year.

Fed up as I've weighed myself and have gone up 3lb (hoping its period or gym related, so trying to ignore)

Hang in there fasters

TalkinPeace · 17/03/2014 14:38

Blimey falimey.
New thread and lots of new people.
EXCELLENT
And the sun shone on the weekend.
Fasting today : mainlining mugs of tea while doing a ton of errands and phone calls.

womblesofwestminster · 17/03/2014 14:48

Do you exercise in the evenings?

Yeah, I have to wait for DH to finish work before I can go to the gym.

Tip's hardcore yoga workouts with weights

Oooooh what's this? Tell me more.

Megrim 5.2 won't work with my binging. Reason is, I never seem to binge on FDs, so the more FDs the less binging.

done a body pump class

What did you think? :)

mugs of tea

With milk or without?

runningLou · 17/03/2014 14:53

Just wondered about exercise timing as I am the same - have to wait for DH to get in and then do bedtime for DC before I can get out. But I eat when I get back to avoid waking up too hungry the next day.
I have real issues with bingeing too ... What are your strategies for dealing with it other than IF?

womblesofwestminster · 17/03/2014 15:20

What are your strategies for dealing with it

I wish I had some strategies to share :( An early bedtime seems to help.

Also have you seen my Binge Blocker and 'How Stupid You Look When You Binge' collections?

ErrolTheDragon · 17/03/2014 15:44

Just quickly dropping in to new thread - blimey, nearly 100 messages already, will try to catch up properly later. Not having my usual FD today as it's DHs birthday and it would simply be uncivilized to fast on it!

He noted approvingly this morning that my shape has changed. Smile

Tiredemma · 17/03/2014 15:56

great- NEW THREAD!

Right, really really pleased.

First time in about 3 years- i am UNDER 9 stone.

8st 13lbs today. So pleased.

Runlikeareindeer · 17/03/2014 15:59

I exercise in evening. I run. I used to run on FDs, which was fine when I was doing 5-6k, but since my distance upped I was struggling. My legs just seemed to run out. So I have switched FDs and now run on feast days.

I tend to have something small now, around 4pm, run after bedtime then eat after. Or sometimes something just light.

Dogmatix34 · 17/03/2014 16:01

Hello to all fasters today. I weighed in at 9 stone 7 this morning which means 1 stone down since starting on Jan 1st. So pleased and getting lots of comments now which has been so encouraging. Have had this extra stone since Ds1 who is now 6 and was beginning to think I'd never lose it. Only half a stone to go before I'm at my dream weight.
Things I have found which have helped:
Definitely no breakfast on fast day
Rocket -a whole bag from waitrose has 8 calories! With prawns, boiled egg and balsamic vinegar it is delicious.
Eat the same as the rest of the family but skip the carbs on FDs, means you aren't having to cook different meals.
I have been stopping eating by 7pm every night FDS &NFDs- mint tea only in the evenings and I think my body is now recognising that's the end of eating for the day. Twinning s double mint sensation is lovely!
Having chocolate in the house for NFDS has helped as I am quite good at just sucking a couple of chunks for ages and it feels like such a treat after a FD
This thread is amazing, the advice and support is wonderful.