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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

The 5:2 thread number 41: Springing into March or marching into spring? Either way, more sunshine means easier fast days! Come and join us in getting healthier, the fast way.

999 replies

BetsyBell · 15/03/2014 11:04

The continuing thread for those of us following the 5:2 fast or other forms of fasting such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012 and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat normally - or approximately your Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE - see explanation below). 4:3 is the same except you fast on 3 days in the week. Alternate-day fasting (ADF) is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. 16:8 is another form where you stick to only eating in an 8 hour window each day, therefore fasting for 16 hours each day.

By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low; around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.

You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.

WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website or app many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a TDEE calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

NFD = Non fast day.

NSV/LSV = Non scale victory/Lifestyle (change) victory.

Michael Mosley has a website to accompany his book on the subject. Please go check it out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

Lurkers and new starters: please just jump in and post - you'll find a lot of support here and we’re a friendly bunch.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

Other Threads
All our previous threads can be found by browsing through the fasting section of the site.

Tips and Links : breadandwine’s resource for some of the tips and links that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

Inspirational: eatriskier’s thread has some lovely inspiring stories which are worth checking out if you want some motivation to get started or keep going through a plateau. Please add your own too.

Recipes: frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

Exercise: bigchocfrenzy has an incredibly informative and helpful exercise and fitness thread for discussion and advice on combining 5:2 with an exercise regime.

Maintaining: If you've been at this a while and are moving on to maintaining your goal weight, there is a thread here to discuss that.

Other links
This is a BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon - link to that programme here.

This Telegraph article comments on the diet and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley himself, very informative if you're just starting.

This blog post gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

This link nicely demonstrates that there are many ‘right’ body shapes and types, because what we are actually aiming for is low body fat for fitness and health.

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5lbs reduction in body weight and a 4cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant. It also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

If you’ve been researching IF you may have come across this article which is highly negative about women with BMI in the normal range. Here’s our response to that:

  • With a healthy BMI, those who want to be leaner will usually find weight and waist loss to be much slower than for overweight folk, since, less fat and inches are available to lose.
  • The women with healthy BMIs already had healthier blood sugar than the men in the study. Hence nothing really needed improving.
  • Women who have had health problems on IF were NOT doing 5:2, but the
much tougher ADF or 16:8, ^combined with heavy lifting (often multiples of body weight) AND were often starting from already ultra-low BF 12-16% range.^

-Many were already missing periods or had EDs before IF, due to the low BF %, over-training and over-stressing.

5:2 is a gentler form of IF than ADF or Leangains and there’s plenty of anecdotal evidence from longterm 5:2ers, now with healthy BMI, who are continuing to have very positive results and experiences on this WOE.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful.

A HUGE THANK YOU to Greeneggsandnicht for putting together all this info and resources into one concise OP text, much appreciated by so many 5:2ers!

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this way of life!

And lastly, a few FAQs/Healthy tips :

  • WATER: Start each day with a pint of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • Hot drinks: no limits on tea or coffee any day, just note any milk / sugar calories on FDs.
  • FDs: concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Old hands skip breakfast & save most cals for supper.
  • NFDs: no rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar, artificial sweeteners, fizzy drinks, junk food. A few treats per week are good though! Aim to average TDEE over NFDs each week, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • CLENCH for health: men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily.
  • Do NOT fast: if pregnant, under 21, have EDs, any illness, even a bad cold. When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So eat to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks.
  • Check with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate).
  • BREASTFEEDERS: start with 1000-cal FDs; optionally, reduce to 700 cals gradually. You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • SLEEP: everybody needs enough sleep, or weight loss may be slowed.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss if you you do NOT eat back exercise calories. Fasted training can burn more fat. HIIT works well with 5:2/IF.
OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
BigChocFrenzy · 30/03/2014 21:49

I'm planning my Monday FD too:

  • breakfast = 1 pint of water and an espresso
  • 10am : big mug of tea
  • lunch: more of the same
  • 4pm: low carb protein shake
  • 7pm: HIIT spin
  • 8:15pm: another shake, then clean teeth at the gym
The 5:2 thread number 41: Springing into March or marching into spring? Either way, more sunshine means easier fast days! Come and join us in getting healthier, the fast way.
MelanieCheeks · 30/03/2014 22:56

Emma, the rice pot will be quite carby, might make you feel hungry shortly after. What is it about the minestrone you're unsure of? ( I love it, really tasty Italian flavours)

Wombles, I think the lack of breakfast is only a small element of the sumos diet.

Big choc, are those protein shakes really satisfying enough?

BigChocFrenzy · 30/03/2014 23:34

Melanie A shake LOF is easier for me to stick to than solid food, but YMMV as always.

One of the very few 5:2 scientific studies (Dr Mattson, I think) used exactly these shakes (Atkims RTD) for FDs.
They are very low carb, some fat, some protein, so quite satiating for 150 cals.
Taste Ok, but not so delic that they are moreish.

TwittyMcTwitterson · 31/03/2014 05:46

Urgh. FD but I've woken up ravenous. Hmm

CiderwithBuda · 31/03/2014 07:19

EveesMummy - me too! And I'm a bit hungover. DH and DS got me a half bottle of champagne for Mother's Day and it had it yesterday evening and then far too much red wine as well. Feeling it this morning!

Busy gardening days here yesterday and Saturday. Replanting two big beds at the front of the house so both days involved a very expensive trip to th garden centre and then planting sessions.

Went to pizza express on Saturday evening and stuck to my plan. Yesterday's food wasn't too bad but as mentioned above I had too much wine.

I think today might be a mini fast. Then full FDs on tues and Thursday this week will work better. DH is here today but goes away tomorrow.

runningLou · 31/03/2014 08:09

Does anyone else feel truly dreadful after an FD? On an FD morning I start off buzzing and feeling powerful and strong, then about 5pm I have a headache, the world goes a bit fuzzy and unreal, and I feel kind of 'numb'. Then the following morning I feel like I'm walking through glue and can't function. I drink loads of herbal tea throughout the day so it's not fluids ...
Just not sure if I can deal with it without getting snappy and irritable with DC and DH.
My sister's just been diagnosed with an ED and that completely ruined mother's day weekend. I ate way too many carbs - feel awful this morning. My friend on the juice diet's still trying to persuade me to try it but I think I'd rather eat my fruit and veg crunchy, not blitzed up ...
Good luck to all Monday fasters!

BetsyBell · 31/03/2014 08:39

Runninglou Maybe you need to split up your FD calories over 2 meals and see if that helps. I almost always do - usually have a crunchy veg lunch that's sub 100 calories but gets me through until the evening. Yes there are plenty who go 24 hours with nothing but liquid, but I'm not one of them!

Also, it takes a good few weeks for your body to adjust to this WOE, but it's worth trying out different ways to see what suits you best. I know others who either do breakfast and evening meal (a la Mosley) or breakfast only and do well on it.

Sorry to hear about your sister.

For one reason on another, despite 2 fast days, I ate substantially more over last week than usual. I'm not weighing in, I can see I've put on weight and I've also realised that my portion sizes have been increasing/going back for seconds without thinking. So this week, I eat clean and seize back control! I think I might fire up the old food diary to keep me on the straight and narrow. It's fine as a one off week but I don't want to slip back into larger portions, nibbling constantly while cooking and what I call cupboard door nibbling - ie eating hurriedly before the cupboard door is even closed. Just because no one's watching, it doesn't mean it's not happening!

So, fast day today - salad leaf, crunchy veg and chopped gherkin lunch (dressed with teaspoon yogurt, lemon juice & pepper) and a small veggie and chickpea based dinner.

OP posts:
Eatriskier · 31/03/2014 08:40

running what do you eat on FD? and especially ing comparison to NFD? You mentioned the carb heavy day yesterday but if your diet is usual quite carby but FDs aren't you could well be suffering carb withdrawal symptoms. I am definitely more irritable the morning after an FD but tend to calm down after breakfast.

ErrolTheDragon · 31/03/2014 08:49

Runninglou, I used to feel a bit that way when I started.... I find it ok now, can get through the day with just a miso soup for lunch (which I may not even feel like till nearer 3pm) but I do drink black coffee and a 'treat' diet coke. I don't think I'd manage well with just herbals.

My friend on the juice diet's still trying to persuade me to try it but I think I'd rather eat my fruit and veg crunchy, not blitzed up

You're right on that - I guess (healthy veg/fruit not too sweet) smoothies are ok but juicing and throwing away all the fibre and a lot of the nutrients that lurk in the skins seems misguided.

runningLou · 31/03/2014 08:54

No, this weekend was an exceptional carb fest, but I normally try and eat low carb, so NFD would be greek yog, fruit and some oat bran for brekkie, then protein and veggies for lunch with fruit yog for pud, then salad with rye bread for dinner. FDs I've been having some veg (e.g. Broccoli or cucumber with cottage cheese around lunchtime, then an apple, then for dinner veg soup and plain chicken. I've just been waking up the following day feeling dreadful and even having a bigger brekkie than normal doesn't help.

Blondieminx · 31/03/2014 08:54

FD today here too, and YY to feeling headachey and rubbish by the end of a FD. Have been drinking gallons of water/fruit teas during my FD so I suspect it's caffeine withdrawal rather than dehydration (usually drink normal tea with milk & one sugar).

Weighed in yesterday and despite brownie-gate, I have lost 2lb! Very pleased!

Physio later for my crappy knee, I want to be doing exercise but am under orders from the GP & physio to take it easy.

IPokedABadgerWithASpoon · 31/03/2014 09:37

FD here too, try and shift some of the damage of last weeks 2 day mega-binge!
Will have mackerel and salad later so just trying to get through til then on fluids...

Does anyone know of any really effective arm fat reducing exercises I can do at home and quickly/cheaply? (2 pre-schoolers and work don't leave much time or money for full on exercise routines!)
And how quickly could I see a difference? I have a big night out and wedding in 9 weeks and I'd love to wear a dress without a cardigan/shrug/cover-up for once

Degustibusnonestdisputandem · 31/03/2014 09:51

FD for me today (usually do Mondays & Thursdays). I don't really have any trouble sticking to 500 cals; I usually drink loads of water, a 140cal sushi snack when I get in to work, another for lunch, then a 200cal salad for dinner.

ErrolTheDragon · 31/03/2014 10:01

Just done my first day of Ripped in 30 L3 .... some of it quite challenging but fun. Thinking of going out to see if the towpath is runnable yet...

FD, so black coffee and water so far (honestly blondie, have a medicinal black coffee with a stevia tablet even if you hate it - I'm getting used to it and it helps. I'm finding Gold Blend more tolerable than DHs fancy strong roast proper coffee.)

Badger - I wish there was some specific way to get rid of upper arm fat but I fear there isn't. I'm sure BC or someone can advise on exercises to help build some triceps so that there's a better muscle ratio - IMO a good one to do at home is triceps dips. is quite good I think for showing correct form - keeping your back/butt close to the bench/stool whatever was where I used to go wrong. I do mine at the moment using a kitchen stool next to the oven which I can use as a mirror to check position.

ErrolTheDragon · 31/03/2014 10:03

Oh! It automagically embedded the youtube into the post, now you've no excuse not to try those dips!

womblesofwestminster · 31/03/2014 10:07

Dudes, I did my first ever zero calorie fast yesterday!

IPokedABadgerWithASpoon · 31/03/2014 10:38

Errol shame I'm on a tablet and it won't show them! looking for excuses!

I'll have a look when they have a nap/watch cartoons, thanks

Chocupid · 31/03/2014 11:30

Wow Wombles I'm impressed, I can't even do a LOF without caving!!

I'm not sure weather to fast today or not
Woken with a migraine so feel pretty bad at the moment, will see how I go.

Running I have been having stomach ache the day after a FD recently not sure why I have plenty of fluids and don't eat breakfast even on NFD's.

God luck to all fasters today!

ErrolTheDragon · 31/03/2014 11:32

wombles - wow, how was it?

I made it to the towpath - brisk walk there (1/2 mile), steady jog to where it is still impassably muddy (about a mile) , then back doing untimed sprint/walk intervals - got about 8 in. Probably more walk than sprint but not bad for the first time out of the year. Then slow 1/2 mile back.

Will have a nice warm bath presently.

BigChocFrenzy · 31/03/2014 11:33

Badger There is no way to locally reduce fat. Fat distribution is genetic. You have to reduce your overall %.

What can help optically is to build up muscle in the wobbly area.
Note: this might increase overall size, because it would not necessarily reduce fat.

Tricep dips, like Errol suggested can help build muscle there.
Also, press-ups are always good for all upper body muscle groups. Broader shoulders can make pudgy upper arms or stomach look less obvious.

ErrolTheDragon · 31/03/2014 11:35

My theory is that I'm bound to be left with some loose skin as I lose fat (I'm over 50 so doubt it will magically ping back!) so I've got to try to build some muscle to fill it out. Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 31/03/2014 11:48

I'm FDing today after greedy refeed.

YMMV, so find what works for your individual bod - this may change as you become used to FDs.

I always feel full of energy on an FD especially evenings. No headaches.
As mentioned, My LOF is: very low carb shakes 4pm and post-training.
NFDs with high complex carbs; only very occasionally any junk carbs.

I have a double espresso 10 mins before evening training and then because my training is high intensity, this kills my appetite until I go to bed.
Less intense exercise would make me hungry, so I don't do any.

The day after an FD, I wake up feeling fine, but in "relaxed Zen" mode.
I don't have breakfast, but I definitely need an early lunch.

Chocupid · 31/03/2014 11:52

Bigchoc can I ask what benefit the caffeine has before training?

My son has started the gym and they are all doing this too!

BsshBossh · 31/03/2014 11:54

Oi, where is bsshbossh and her amazing metabolism?

Still lurking peplum :) Still under target weight and still not fasting because of losing more weight...

runningLou · 31/03/2014 11:58

BigChoc which high complex carbs do you go for?
Am interested in what you said about body fat %. Mine is at 20% (know for sure as had body scan) yet I think that whole 20% is concentrated in my horrific thunder thighs - they are muscly as I run / do spinning / cycle / swim 5-6 times per week but there is so much fat there. Is there any way to target this more specifically or is it just a case of losing body fat and that'll be the last place where it goes from?