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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

The 5:2 thread number 41: Springing into March or marching into spring? Either way, more sunshine means easier fast days! Come and join us in getting healthier, the fast way.

999 replies

BetsyBell · 15/03/2014 11:04

The continuing thread for those of us following the 5:2 fast or other forms of fasting such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012 and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat normally - or approximately your Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE - see explanation below). 4:3 is the same except you fast on 3 days in the week. Alternate-day fasting (ADF) is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. 16:8 is another form where you stick to only eating in an 8 hour window each day, therefore fasting for 16 hours each day.

By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low; around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.

You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.

WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website or app many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a TDEE calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

NFD = Non fast day.

NSV/LSV = Non scale victory/Lifestyle (change) victory.

Michael Mosley has a website to accompany his book on the subject. Please go check it out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

Lurkers and new starters: please just jump in and post - you'll find a lot of support here and we’re a friendly bunch.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

Other Threads
All our previous threads can be found by browsing through the fasting section of the site.

Tips and Links : breadandwine’s resource for some of the tips and links that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

Inspirational: eatriskier’s thread has some lovely inspiring stories which are worth checking out if you want some motivation to get started or keep going through a plateau. Please add your own too.

Recipes: frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

Exercise: bigchocfrenzy has an incredibly informative and helpful exercise and fitness thread for discussion and advice on combining 5:2 with an exercise regime.

Maintaining: If you've been at this a while and are moving on to maintaining your goal weight, there is a thread here to discuss that.

Other links
This is a BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon - link to that programme here.

This Telegraph article comments on the diet and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley himself, very informative if you're just starting.

This blog post gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

This link nicely demonstrates that there are many ‘right’ body shapes and types, because what we are actually aiming for is low body fat for fitness and health.

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5lbs reduction in body weight and a 4cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant. It also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

If you’ve been researching IF you may have come across this article which is highly negative about women with BMI in the normal range. Here’s our response to that:

  • With a healthy BMI, those who want to be leaner will usually find weight and waist loss to be much slower than for overweight folk, since, less fat and inches are available to lose.
  • The women with healthy BMIs already had healthier blood sugar than the men in the study. Hence nothing really needed improving.
  • Women who have had health problems on IF were NOT doing 5:2, but the
much tougher ADF or 16:8, ^combined with heavy lifting (often multiples of body weight) AND were often starting from already ultra-low BF 12-16% range.^

-Many were already missing periods or had EDs before IF, due to the low BF %, over-training and over-stressing.

5:2 is a gentler form of IF than ADF or Leangains and there’s plenty of anecdotal evidence from longterm 5:2ers, now with healthy BMI, who are continuing to have very positive results and experiences on this WOE.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful.

A HUGE THANK YOU to Greeneggsandnicht for putting together all this info and resources into one concise OP text, much appreciated by so many 5:2ers!

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this way of life!

And lastly, a few FAQs/Healthy tips :

  • WATER: Start each day with a pint of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • Hot drinks: no limits on tea or coffee any day, just note any milk / sugar calories on FDs.
  • FDs: concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Old hands skip breakfast & save most cals for supper.
  • NFDs: no rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar, artificial sweeteners, fizzy drinks, junk food. A few treats per week are good though! Aim to average TDEE over NFDs each week, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • CLENCH for health: men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily.
  • Do NOT fast: if pregnant, under 21, have EDs, any illness, even a bad cold. When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So eat to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks.
  • Check with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate).
  • BREASTFEEDERS: start with 1000-cal FDs; optionally, reduce to 700 cals gradually. You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • SLEEP: everybody needs enough sleep, or weight loss may be slowed.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss if you you do NOT eat back exercise calories. Fasted training can burn more fat. HIIT works well with 5:2/IF.
OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
annielewis · 28/03/2014 08:24

Morning all - FD for me today as have had a pretty appalling week fast wise. Sounds like everyone is battling all sorts of things at the moment so possibly a NSV that any of us are still on here at all!!

TOTM for me and its bloody freezing and foggy here today - am going to do some FastExercise in a mo, skipping I think. First attempt so won't be surprised if I don't manage much but need to do something!!!!

Good luck anyone else on a FD today..

IPokedABadgerWithASpoon · 28/03/2014 08:37

Yesterday did not go well understatement of the year

Much needed FD today

Eatriskier · 28/03/2014 08:53

peplum I haven't got much 14 stuff at all! Was a bit of an I'm between size for me when losing and I had shifted the old stuff as I thought I'd be fat forever Blush. Most of my nice stuff is apparently maternity too, probably the only time I felt I could dress for my figure!

ErrolTheDragon · 28/03/2014 09:44

annie - good attitude! The Fast exercise should get you warmed up and hopefully the sun will break through the fog - its got pretty nice where I am now.

Badger - yesterday, whatever happened, is past - you're back here for an FD reset.

Chocupid · 28/03/2014 10:14

Thanks Errol'think your right also learnt to stay away from fancy smancy scales too Grin

Have a lovely lunch.

Glad I'm not fasting today as the sun is out and I want lunch.
Good luck to you all that are fasting though!

TwittyMcTwitterson · 28/03/2014 10:27

Fooking he'll! At the gym (day off work) and I've done that tabata stuff. Sweating like a pig n totally knackered! Good advice big choc GrinGrinGrin

runningLou · 28/03/2014 10:32

Yesterday (NFD) an epic fail and the scales showed that this morning - 4.5lbs up on yesterday Shock
So, today will be the 3rd FD of the week ... So far one black coffee, one herbal tea, and a fantastic spinning class at the gym.
Those of you who have been doing this for a while, how do you make sure that this WOE doesn't become a starve and binge cycle??
I have managed FDs successfully so far, but NFDs ... Well yesterday was total self-sabotage.

mummyof2girlsx · 28/03/2014 10:54

Morning, FD here. Only half a day in work today Grin.

DH has been away for last 10 days and not likely to be home until end of April so trying to juggle work, kids, child care etc I think I'll be ready for a Wine tomorrow evening!

Enjoy your Friday everyone.

Runlikeareindeer · 28/03/2014 11:38

Tuesday FD I did really well all day, then went to a gig and had a pint of Guinness.

FD today and have just had a bite of dd's scone and ds's chocolate shortbread. Argh.... Make me stop.

MetellaEstMater · 28/03/2014 13:11

Really struggling with today's FD. I was out last night and whilst I didn't go mad I ate a large meal and had a couple of glasses of wine. Huge knock on effect! Ah well, DH is out tonight so I may just hit the hay when the kids do!

EagleRay · 28/03/2014 13:12

Error I only wanted to eat avocados when recovering from giardia in South America - would get up and walk out of restaurants if they didn't have them as I was that crazed! My body was clearly telling me something, but then id been ill for a couple of months and probably a bit malnourished (although, bizarrely, was still quite fat...)

TalkinPeace · 28/03/2014 14:28

runninglou
if your NFDs are turning into binges, it is probably worth using MFP for a few weeks to see where the problem lies

and don't buy the junk Grin

am having fun on the AIBU fat thread at the moment with the lazy mares who do not want to be told to eat less Wink

choc
if you feel woozy after a fast DRINK MORE WATER

BigChocFrenzy · 28/03/2014 17:03

Well done with the exercise, Annielewis, EveesMummy.

Badger Cheer up, Frenzies bad days happen to us all.
Move on and make today a healthy one

Lou Some suggestions:

  • Before you buy any item of food, decide if you would regret eating it. If so, do NOT buy it, or just buy ONE moderate portion.
Do not buy any treats or junk in bulk, even though individual portions are more expensive. This will make you think.
  • The day before each NFD, plan your meals. You don't need to calorie count at the moment, but do ensure you have plenty of healthy food available and easy to just warm up.

On the NFD:

  • About 15 mins before each meal, have a big glass of water
  • Only dish out eat what is in your plan for that meal, NO impulse extras.
Take another big glass of water to the table with you.
  • Eat mindfully, concentrating on your food and family / friends (if present).
Do not eat in front of the TV or gamebox
  • As soon as you have finished the meal, finish that water and clean your teeth. Then clear the dishes and close the kitchen until the next meal.
  • Try to have at least 10 mins walk outside after each meal. If it is raining, walk up and down the stairs.
  • Plan a full exercise session on most NFDs (before breakfast or when your food has settled)
If you exercise intensely, say 8 mins Tabata, this will tend to reduce your appetite afterwards. However, moderate intensity exercise increases hunger.
BigChocFrenzy · 28/03/2014 17:17

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

ALERT: we have a new 52ExerciseThread2

Come and join us for advice & encouragement to move your bod
Smile

I added new info to the OP, but condensed loads, so much shorter

The old 52 Exercise Thread 1 is closing soon

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

ErrolTheDragon · 28/03/2014 22:08

Lunch wasn't too piggy after all - pizza but we actually left some, home-made bread (wholemeal with treacle) and a yummy salad (rocket, chickpeas, beetroot and feta) followed by a 'healthy muffin'.

That would out me if my friends were lurking here but one is an NM'er and the other is one of those naturally slim people.

LakeFlyPie · 28/03/2014 23:32

Great tips BigChoc

Managed an OK FD I think, really need to do some measuring and calculate some calorie contents, I really am clueless but know it doesn't take much to get to 500.
Is MFP the best calorie counting tool to use? I want a calorie counting PA

Tea / coffee / water throughout the day and a bowl of bouillon for lunch.
Broke my fast with a tablespoon of egg mayonnaise which wasn't part of the plan(cracked whilst making the DC tea),but got back on track until dinner of courgette noodles with spicy chorizo, tomato and onion sauce.
It was quite a big bowl full but surely it can't contain too many calories; I was quite sparing with the chorizo.
Have just had a FF yog at 90cals and may succumb to a small hot choc before bed.

LakeFlyPie · 28/03/2014 23:33

Errol that salad does sound delicious, might make that for lunch tomorrow

IPokedABadgerWithASpoon · 29/03/2014 08:14

After my 2 day binge, I have put on 5lb...need to get back on the wagon so badly, but feel so crappy and disheartened.

Right, one part at a time, I'm going to drink a pint of water now and skip breakfast

Not2bObvious · 29/03/2014 09:29

Badger, RunningLou don't be too worried, you couldn't have possibly gained those pounds overnight. It's just fluid, undigested food. I'm able say that cause my scales is hidden away so I been saved the misery of scales shock for the last 2 weeks! I reckon it takes at least 2 weeks to see a true increase, probably like it takes 2 weeks to see a true decrease. A FD or 2 will balance the books.
Speaking of fd's, my 2 this week weren't good. Well one was more of a mini fast (800 cals) and the other ended up as slightly over tdee so we'll call that a weak nfd! It's falling into my usual pattern of being in great mood and full of energy and intentions, then my self sabotage kicks in and I slip. But it's a very minor slip which won't result in damage. I'm doing my usual Saturday drops/shops but after 11.30, I've around 3 hours to myself. Going clean the house which will get the blood moving then a spot if JM and a run on the treadmill if time allows! Doing a 16:8 mini fast as part of it all.
I'm told I'm being brought for food tomorrow so that's going be another 16:8 so I can relax and not stress about it. What's everyone else up to?

CiderwithBuda · 29/03/2014 10:51

Hello all.

Not a great day yesterday. Well the day was fine. The evening not so much! Had a gin and slimline and some red wine and we had Indian food. Really nice. No rice or naan though so not too bad. I had only had around 400 cals during the day. So probably within TDEE if you don't count the wine.

Going to Pizza Express this evening too, will have one of their Leggera pizzas and a salad to start. Going with DH and DS and a friend and her DCs. She doesn't drink so it won't be a boozy night although I will have a glass or two of wine.

Lovely day here so once my breakfast has gone down I'm heading for a walk, then I need to do my physio and Pilates exercises and then we will be gardening. I doubt. So an active day.

Emmabryant123 · 29/03/2014 12:04

Morning all, today is the start of something challenging
I'm cutting out fizzy drinks, diet crap, shop bought milk shakes etc and limiting my treats...

Nfd today so have had a small glass of semi skimmed milk, cup of coffee with semi skimmed milk, one slice home made white bread toasted with dairy lea cheese triangles and a pack of fruit salad (watermelon, grapes, kiwi, pineapple and mango) and chopped a banana into it.
Dinner is spag Bol home made with grated cheddar.
Going to try and drink lots of water today. Had about half a pint during the night.

I am stone up on three weeks ago (been binging badly)
Tomorrow is roast chicken dinner going to try and skip breakfast and have a coffee in the morning.

Monday is a 16:8 I have bought a sistema soup tub for work and bought two cartons of fresh soup from the shop (minestrone mmm) so will take that and fruit for lunch and have a healthy dinner.

Then Tuesday is a fd need to ease my self back into this!

BigChocFrenzy · 29/03/2014 14:44

Good luck, Emma. Post here whenever the junk demon starts whispering in your ear.
Smile

Breadandwine · 29/03/2014 16:25

Vegan chocolate noted, thanks, BC. I'd found it online, but I didn't know H&B did it. Why 85g, though? Miserable sods!

Still, one of those a month won't hurt, will it? We'll see if I can stick to that.

Emmabryant123 · 29/03/2014 21:35

Junk demon started :(
Had today
Glass semi s milk
Slice toast with two dairy lea cheese triangles
Fruit salad (watermelon , kiwi, mango, pineapple , grapes and banana)
Fruit corner strawberry granola yogurt
One all butter crossiaont
Pack of belvita biscuits
Spag Bol with cheese
White magnum
Three pints water
Two coffees with semi skimmed milk

Not2bObvious · 29/03/2014 23:10

Doesn't sound that bad Emma? Few biccies, croissant and ice cream, is that about all that wasn't on your original plan? Believe me, I've seen and done worse. Anyway it's done now, brush teeth, go to bed and do something different tomorrow.
Alright day here although did have a few too many biccies/jellies/nuts myself but it is Saturday so it's fair gameWink V quiet here today, I guess you are all off having a life! Sleep well all, have to remember to spring my clock forward, quite helpful for a 16:8, I'll have done 1 more hour without evening trying Grin

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