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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

The 5:2 thread number 41: Springing into March or marching into spring? Either way, more sunshine means easier fast days! Come and join us in getting healthier, the fast way.

999 replies

BetsyBell · 15/03/2014 11:04

The continuing thread for those of us following the 5:2 fast or other forms of fasting such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012 and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat normally - or approximately your Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE - see explanation below). 4:3 is the same except you fast on 3 days in the week. Alternate-day fasting (ADF) is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. 16:8 is another form where you stick to only eating in an 8 hour window each day, therefore fasting for 16 hours each day.

By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low; around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.

You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.

WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website or app many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a TDEE calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

NFD = Non fast day.

NSV/LSV = Non scale victory/Lifestyle (change) victory.

Michael Mosley has a website to accompany his book on the subject. Please go check it out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

Lurkers and new starters: please just jump in and post - you'll find a lot of support here and we’re a friendly bunch.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

Other Threads
All our previous threads can be found by browsing through the fasting section of the site.

Tips and Links : breadandwine’s resource for some of the tips and links that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

Inspirational: eatriskier’s thread has some lovely inspiring stories which are worth checking out if you want some motivation to get started or keep going through a plateau. Please add your own too.

Recipes: frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

Exercise: bigchocfrenzy has an incredibly informative and helpful exercise and fitness thread for discussion and advice on combining 5:2 with an exercise regime.

Maintaining: If you've been at this a while and are moving on to maintaining your goal weight, there is a thread here to discuss that.

Other links
This is a BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon - link to that programme here.

This Telegraph article comments on the diet and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley himself, very informative if you're just starting.

This blog post gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

This link nicely demonstrates that there are many ‘right’ body shapes and types, because what we are actually aiming for is low body fat for fitness and health.

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5lbs reduction in body weight and a 4cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant. It also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

If you’ve been researching IF you may have come across this article which is highly negative about women with BMI in the normal range. Here’s our response to that:

  • With a healthy BMI, those who want to be leaner will usually find weight and waist loss to be much slower than for overweight folk, since, less fat and inches are available to lose.
  • The women with healthy BMIs already had healthier blood sugar than the men in the study. Hence nothing really needed improving.
  • Women who have had health problems on IF were NOT doing 5:2, but the
much tougher ADF or 16:8, ^combined with heavy lifting (often multiples of body weight) AND were often starting from already ultra-low BF 12-16% range.^

-Many were already missing periods or had EDs before IF, due to the low BF %, over-training and over-stressing.

5:2 is a gentler form of IF than ADF or Leangains and there’s plenty of anecdotal evidence from longterm 5:2ers, now with healthy BMI, who are continuing to have very positive results and experiences on this WOE.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful.

A HUGE THANK YOU to Greeneggsandnicht for putting together all this info and resources into one concise OP text, much appreciated by so many 5:2ers!

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this way of life!

And lastly, a few FAQs/Healthy tips :

  • WATER: Start each day with a pint of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • Hot drinks: no limits on tea or coffee any day, just note any milk / sugar calories on FDs.
  • FDs: concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Old hands skip breakfast & save most cals for supper.
  • NFDs: no rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar, artificial sweeteners, fizzy drinks, junk food. A few treats per week are good though! Aim to average TDEE over NFDs each week, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • CLENCH for health: men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily.
  • Do NOT fast: if pregnant, under 21, have EDs, any illness, even a bad cold. When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So eat to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks.
  • Check with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate).
  • BREASTFEEDERS: start with 1000-cal FDs; optionally, reduce to 700 cals gradually. You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • SLEEP: everybody needs enough sleep, or weight loss may be slowed.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss if you you do NOT eat back exercise calories. Fasted training can burn more fat. HIIT works well with 5:2/IF.
OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
Lilliput · 27/03/2014 20:31

I have 107 left. Hmm

MazzleDazzle · 27/03/2014 20:35

Thanks for the link tired. I've been going to classes since the New Year, but with 2 small DC and a husband who works away from home it's been bloody difficult! I'm managing the classes, but I'm tired, stressed and constantly juggling/rushing! Would like to keep up my level if fitness, but mostly work out at home.

Also, thanks for your list of indulgences! It read like food porn! Mmmmmm. Could scoff the lot now!

Has been a tough FD - largely due to using up my whole 500 on cake! Anyone else ever do this? Eat 500 cals of shite, stop there and call it a FD? I know it's not healthy, but it's just the way it turned out.

Tomorrow, the tape measure beckons...

Southeastdweller · 27/03/2014 20:42

Then I'd have some natural filling yogurt.

BigChocFrenzy · 27/03/2014 20:47

Lilliput Don't waken the carb monster.

I would just have a small tin of tuna (in water, not oil) or a handful of prawns plus lettuce, 1 tomato, lemon juice / vinegar and a teaspoon of hot horseradish sauce. That just fits your limit.

And like Tip says: a BIG drink of water with a twist of lemon, or herbal tea.

EagleRay · 27/03/2014 21:08

Evening all - FD no 10 completed! I think today was the hardest - was feeling quite nauseous this afternoon (blaming the meds) but was slightly revived by a rich tea biscuit (and have no guilt whatsoever as had to fight my way past a mountain of cherry bakewells (my fave thing ever) in the work kitchen to get to the boring biscuits!

My HIIT (or is it Tababta?) routine is 20 seconds full pelt on bike, with 10 seconds off, x 8. I have my bike set up at home on the turbo trainer although not used it for over a week due to stinking cold. Somebody tell me I should get up off the sofa and go and do a session before bed and I will do it! Btw, have a brilliant app on the ipad that does all the music and timings for me so don't need to look at a stopwatch - it just bleeps when I need to go fast or slow down.

Amazing photos eatriskier, as is your weight loss!

off to do my weekly measurements now...

ErrolTheDragon · 27/03/2014 21:10

107 cals.... I'd think I'd make a hot chocolate with a teaspoonful of cocoa (12cals) and 270 mls skimmed milk (94.5 cals) at bedtime.

BigChocFrenzy · 27/03/2014 21:17

For those who havn't got Mosely's Fast Fitness book, I posted a summary of his super-quick exercise routines on the 52ExerciseThread

BigChocFrenzy · 27/03/2014 21:20

EagleRay Welldone, That's great exercise. Yes Tabata or Fast Fitness
Smile
Well done to any Thursday FDers.

EagleRay · 27/03/2014 21:23

Thank you - will drag arse off the sofa now and go and do bike and maybe throw some weights around (I only have little lady ones at home but make up for it at the gym!)

And just done weekly measurements - no loss this week. Shitbags.

Lilliput · 27/03/2014 21:29

Cherry activia, Apple and coffee. 38 cals over. Smile

womblesofwestminster · 27/03/2014 21:34

Thanks BigChocFrenzy. I've unearthed some interesting points re: fasting when ill:

-All animals except the modern man fast when sick.

-Fasting is considered to be a cleansing process.

-Fasting allows the body to put the energy it would normally use for digestion into healing itself. When we are constantly consuming food, our body has to focus much of its energy on digesting that food. By limiting our intake of food for short periods of time, our body can solely focus on healing and recovery.

-Nature tells us to fast. Often when we get sick, we lose our appetites. Fasting is a natural process that helps to speed up recuperation.

foodfitnessfreshair.com/2009/11/17/sick-take-a-break-from-breakfast-and-lunch-and-dinner/

BigChocFrenzy · 27/03/2014 21:38

Breadandwine You were looking for a vegan dark chocolate with chilli.
This looks good from Holland & Barratt VeganChilliChoc

DakotaFanny · 27/03/2014 22:32

Can I just quickly ask what a mini fast is???

I'm doing two full fast days, but wondering whether to add another eleement if a mini fast seems good for me...

Thanks.x

BigChocFrenzy · 27/03/2014 22:57

MiniFast, Mini-FD has up to 50% TDEE in the day.
So for someone with TDEE 2000, a mini-FD is in the range 600-1000 cals.

If you have had a greedy week, you can add a mini-FD to compensate, say 400 cals each for lunch and supper, without feeling too deprived.

Peplum41 · 28/03/2014 05:14

Great start overtiredmum! I've never tried Jillian M, but I have noticed a lot of posters think her stuff is heavy on the knees. Have you much to lose? Have you had a specific knee injury, or it carrying a lot of weight? Definitely affects the joints.

eats great pants shot, I tried not to look at your face but did anyway! Was going to ask if you've got any nice size 14 stuff going on ebay, but I'm sure I remember you asking someone that same question last summer.

Oi, where is bsshbossh and her amazing metabolism?

A man I used to look after years ago, was in his late 90s when he died, insisted on fasting when he got a cold. We all thought he mad, and would try to tempt him, but he was resolute.

He also wanted to be smeared in mustard and wrapped up in brown paper but we drew the line there.

DakotaFanny · 28/03/2014 06:36

Thanks big choc. I am thinking I might do one 1000 calorie day as well. Appreciate your help. X

BetsyBell · 28/03/2014 06:36

My personal experience with attempting to fast while ill with a cold was that it just made me want to mainline carbs on Nfds. Whereas eating nutritiously and lightly on the days when I felt the worst stopped me wanting to eat crap sugar products and rubbish carbs.

Being a mum, I don't get any time off when ill - unless I'm properly bed bound with something nasty (rare) and in those cases I'm usually to ill to eat but am not opting to fast either.

I like to think of fasting as something I've consciously decided to do and is a positive thing, rather than because I'm too ill to eat.

OP posts:
MelanieCheeks · 28/03/2014 06:55

Interesting how this approach has taught me to listen to my body. Normally I'm fine in the mornings - usually skip breakfats on a FD with no problems. But last night I was at a party with lots of sandwiches and sweet treats that I wouldn't usually eat....and this morning my stomach is rumbling like crazy!

BreakOutTheKaraoke · 28/03/2014 07:40

Melanie I always feel starving the next morning when I've gone mad the night before, maybe it's because a lot of the stuff is empty calories, and not very filling?

2nd FD done yesterday, because of my shift at work I could either eat on my lunch at 12, or hang on til after 5 when I left work. Decided to hang on and power through til later, ended up not eating til 8 last night. Ate a tin of soup, probably could have been something a bit healthier but I find that if I eat an omelette, I'm full enough but not satiated and crave more. Followed by a bag of quavers before bed.

Think I'll start looking up the recipes for the low-cal curries, etc. At the minute I'm concentrating on the fast, and not about the content, as I'm trying to hold off food until I actually need it, and then need something quick. So it's been lots of soup, porridge, omelettes, and the odd ready meal. Maybe it's time to hunt for some slow cooker recipes to portion up and freeze?

BreakOutTheKaraoke · 28/03/2014 07:41

Oh, and for colds, I'm of the 'eat until you stop feeling sick' mindset. Might not be healthy, but it gets me through.

LakeFlyPie · 28/03/2014 07:53

FD today.
Tea / coffee, possibly bouillon at lunchtime if I need it and might go for courgette 'noodles' and spicy tomato sauce again for dinner.
Good luck Fasters, happy eating non Fasters Smile

Chocupid · 28/03/2014 08:02

Anyone get an iffy tummy after a FD? Got pains this morning again (and not eaten yet as never have breakfast anyway so can't be food) it's been the same for the last 2 weeks since getting back on it!

Can't remember if I had it last time round.

Also since joining the gym and trying to focus on building muscle not weight ( who am I kidding)
I jumped on those fancy tanita scales, and they say I've lost fat and muscle, even though ive been to the gym 10 times over the last 2 weeks and done weights.... Confused

Maybe I should go back to focusing on weight loss Hmm

ErrolTheDragon · 28/03/2014 08:09

58 kilos even this morning - edging back in right direction.

I think with the eating when ill thing - listening to your body makes sense. It will depend what the illness is - for instance last time I had norovirus (ages ago now, before talk of fasting) I had to fly to America the next but one day - so total LOF (not even milk or juice) for the next day and most of the journey, then cautiously ate a bit of nonfatty food - got over it much quicker than if I'd tried to eat anything sooner.

Animals don't eat when they're ill; often small children won't want to either, so we get threads on here with anxious mothers wondering what to tempt them with. Don't! Just make sure they're hydrated, they'll eat when they need to and won't actually starve if they don't eat for a few days.

OTOH there are some sorts of unwellness where you may feel you want to eat something particular - could be carbs but it might be a craving for citrus fruit or something salty. Or after undereating while ill you may feel a need to 'refeed' with something particular.

ErrolTheDragon · 28/03/2014 08:12

Chocupid - if you'd not been trying to build muscle, you might have lost a bit more weight but for sure you'd have lost more muscle. The thing to focus on is losing fat.

ErrolTheDragon · 28/03/2014 08:15

OK, need to get going and exercise - hopefully won't want breakfast anyway again, because I'm meeting up with a couple of old NCT buddies for lunch, and that's always a feast.