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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

The 5:2 thread number 41: Springing into March or marching into spring? Either way, more sunshine means easier fast days! Come and join us in getting healthier, the fast way.

999 replies

BetsyBell · 15/03/2014 11:04

The continuing thread for those of us following the 5:2 fast or other forms of fasting such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012 and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat normally - or approximately your Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE - see explanation below). 4:3 is the same except you fast on 3 days in the week. Alternate-day fasting (ADF) is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. 16:8 is another form where you stick to only eating in an 8 hour window each day, therefore fasting for 16 hours each day.

By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low; around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.

You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.

WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website or app many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a TDEE calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

NFD = Non fast day.

NSV/LSV = Non scale victory/Lifestyle (change) victory.

Michael Mosley has a website to accompany his book on the subject. Please go check it out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

Lurkers and new starters: please just jump in and post - you'll find a lot of support here and we’re a friendly bunch.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

Other Threads
All our previous threads can be found by browsing through the fasting section of the site.

Tips and Links : breadandwine’s resource for some of the tips and links that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

Inspirational: eatriskier’s thread has some lovely inspiring stories which are worth checking out if you want some motivation to get started or keep going through a plateau. Please add your own too.

Recipes: frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

Exercise: bigchocfrenzy has an incredibly informative and helpful exercise and fitness thread for discussion and advice on combining 5:2 with an exercise regime.

Maintaining: If you've been at this a while and are moving on to maintaining your goal weight, there is a thread here to discuss that.

Other links
This is a BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon - link to that programme here.

This Telegraph article comments on the diet and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley himself, very informative if you're just starting.

This blog post gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

This link nicely demonstrates that there are many ‘right’ body shapes and types, because what we are actually aiming for is low body fat for fitness and health.

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5lbs reduction in body weight and a 4cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant. It also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

If you’ve been researching IF you may have come across this article which is highly negative about women with BMI in the normal range. Here’s our response to that:

  • With a healthy BMI, those who want to be leaner will usually find weight and waist loss to be much slower than for overweight folk, since, less fat and inches are available to lose.
  • The women with healthy BMIs already had healthier blood sugar than the men in the study. Hence nothing really needed improving.
  • Women who have had health problems on IF were NOT doing 5:2, but the
much tougher ADF or 16:8, ^combined with heavy lifting (often multiples of body weight) AND were often starting from already ultra-low BF 12-16% range.^

-Many were already missing periods or had EDs before IF, due to the low BF %, over-training and over-stressing.

5:2 is a gentler form of IF than ADF or Leangains and there’s plenty of anecdotal evidence from longterm 5:2ers, now with healthy BMI, who are continuing to have very positive results and experiences on this WOE.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful.

A HUGE THANK YOU to Greeneggsandnicht for putting together all this info and resources into one concise OP text, much appreciated by so many 5:2ers!

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this way of life!

And lastly, a few FAQs/Healthy tips :

  • WATER: Start each day with a pint of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • Hot drinks: no limits on tea or coffee any day, just note any milk / sugar calories on FDs.
  • FDs: concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Old hands skip breakfast & save most cals for supper.
  • NFDs: no rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar, artificial sweeteners, fizzy drinks, junk food. A few treats per week are good though! Aim to average TDEE over NFDs each week, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • CLENCH for health: men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily.
  • Do NOT fast: if pregnant, under 21, have EDs, any illness, even a bad cold. When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So eat to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks.
  • Check with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate).
  • BREASTFEEDERS: start with 1000-cal FDs; optionally, reduce to 700 cals gradually. You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • SLEEP: everybody needs enough sleep, or weight loss may be slowed.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss if you you do NOT eat back exercise calories. Fasted training can burn more fat. HIIT works well with 5:2/IF.
OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
BigChocFrenzy · 27/03/2014 17:27

TiredEmma That site gives the usual Tabata routines to do at home as well. It should help your fitness and metabolism
Smile
-Just do 30 secs of any bodyweight exercise, e.g. burpees, squats, pressups, mountain climbs, lunges, siptups.
-Rest 20-30 secs and do another 30 secs of the same or a different exercise

  • Do up to 8 sets

8mins, that's it. Then back to your DC.

womblesofwestminster · 27/03/2014 17:29

True or false:

"Fasting when ill speeds recovery, reduces mucus production, and activates the immune system’s defenses to rapidly and dramatically eliminate the viral load."

www.diseaseproof.com/archives/healthy-food-fast-when-you-are-under-the-weather.html

Any one know if Mosley, Vardy, et al, have any views on fasting while ill?

Tiredemma · 27/03/2014 17:35

8mins, that's it. Then back to your DC.

Even I have 8 mins. (I think!)

Blondieminx · 27/03/2014 18:10

TalkinPeace wish I'd seen the pint of water tip before I succumbed to temptation earlier ... I'd done so well since 6am but then someone bought in salted caramel brownies with fudge chunks (possibly the best brownie I've ever had) so errr I think today will end up as a mini fast BlushBlushBlush

Well done to all the fasters today, hope your willpower was sturdier than mine!Grin

ErrolTheDragon · 27/03/2014 18:16

TiredEmma - that site does look handy - the videos of the various moves look particularly clear.

TwittyMcTwitterson · 27/03/2014 18:28

I find warm ribenas help more than pints of water Grin

IPokedABadgerWithASpoon · 27/03/2014 18:29

Today is a complete write off, sorry. I shall pick back up tomorrow and hope theres not too much damage.

Octopus37 · 27/03/2014 18:35

Thanks TalkingPeace, tomorrow is a new day, will try the water trick and see if it works.

Tiredemma · 27/03/2014 18:37

I did so well yesterday (just 522 cals)- but today just literally craved crap all day.

4 Gingernut biscuits
a 100g bar of Mint dairy Milk 'bubbly'
and a 100gr bar of galaxy.

in one sitting.

BigChocFrenzy · 27/03/2014 19:20

Wombles We advise against fasting when ill, unless you don't fancy food. Just listen to your bod. Usually it needs more nutrients to fight the disease. If so, eat healthy simple food. If not, fast.

Fasting can help some significant illnesses, probably due to hormesis (intermittent stress accelerating the body's repair mode)
Hormesis-Mattson , BlackSwan , Hormesis-Edge

Scientific studies suggest fasting may help patients undergoing chemo, both by helping attack the cancer and by mitigating the chemo side-effects SciAm and US NIH

Fasting may complement conventional treatment but it does NOT replace it.
Many more studies would be required before fasting could become part of established medical practice, so consult your doctor first.

BigChocFrenzy · 27/03/2014 19:24

TiredEmma Chocolate breath !
Grin
Never mind, happens to us all sometimes.
Drink a pint of water, clean your teeth to get rid of all that sugar.
I recommend you make a healthy meal plan for tomorrow, to reduce the danger.

Tiredemma · 27/03/2014 19:25

bigchoc

tomorrow I am going to be a very good 5.2 girl.

ErrolTheDragon · 27/03/2014 19:47

FD going to plan here - lots of drinks, miso mid-afternoon, ready meal coconut curry plus a mound of spring greens for dinner and enough milk for a couple of (very milky) cups of tea - one left for bedtime.

DH drank my FD treat can of coke and cooked himself bacon for his lunch - should I LTB? TBF he didn't know the can of coke was my personal property, and he did apologise for the bacon when he remembered it was my FD. Guess he deserved them - he went above and beyond normal parental duty today for various reasons. Nah, I'll keep him.

Dumpyandabdabs · 27/03/2014 20:01

Salted caramel brownies, oh my goodness that is torture to my ears on a fast day!!!!

Lilliput · 27/03/2014 20:02

I am really struggling today. I fell off the fasting wagon whilst on annual leave and have pushed my self destruct button and totally over eaten the last couple of weeks.
Fasting today and feel like crap. I have a banging headache despite having drunk plenty. I have been starving all day. I had a gammon steak and plenty of veg an hour ago and now totally ravenous, heading still banging.

Blondieminx · 27/03/2014 20:15

Lilliput drink LOTS more water. I have been drinking herbal teas on FD's and I've been getting caffeine withdrawal headaches (normally I drink a lot of tea!)

Dumpy I was on a FD before they were placed in front of me, I caved Blush

Lilliput · 27/03/2014 20:17

I just know I won't sleep well tonight and have 7 days on at work starting tomorrow. I think I may crack and have some muesli before bed.

TalkinPeace · 27/03/2014 20:18

DH cooked an AMAZING FD supper tonight ....
Spanish omelette with the usual leftovers from the fridge, a whole sliced grilled aubergine and then four anchovy fillets each on top
NOM NOM NOM
and the aubergine / anchovy combo made it so tangy I feel stuffed

DRINK MORE WATER

ErrolTheDragon · 27/03/2014 20:20

Blondie - that's why I drink black coffee in the morning on FDs, and a diet coke in the afternoon. (Probably not a good idea at this time of evening though_. I reckon if you are wanting to cut down caffeine do it more on NFDs - you don't need extra trouble on FDs.

TalkinPeace · 27/03/2014 20:20

lilliput
NOT meusli
two scrambled eggs with pepper and then a large glass of milk and possibly a banana
no carbs, just protein and fats

ErrolTheDragon · 27/03/2014 20:22

Lilliput - if you do have the muesli you'll still have eaten way less than normal, won't you, and a decent length fast before your gammon.

Lilliput · 27/03/2014 20:22

Totally craving CARBS!!!!!
Yoghurt, an apple and a decaf coffee???

Southeastdweller · 27/03/2014 20:28

How many cals do you have left Lilli?

Blondieminx · 27/03/2014 20:28

Errol thanks but I don't like coke, and if I have coffee I have it with lots of milk and 2 sugars Blush so no good on a FD really... I have 1 sugar in normal tea but on a FD have just been having one cup in the morning and another mid-afternoon and drinking water/herbal tea the rest of the time.

ErrolTheDragon · 27/03/2014 20:30

Blondie - I usually have lots of milk in my coffee, but on FDs I treat it as medicinal. I have a stevia tablet in it to make it bearable.