Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

The 5:2 thread number 41: Springing into March or marching into spring? Either way, more sunshine means easier fast days! Come and join us in getting healthier, the fast way.

999 replies

BetsyBell · 15/03/2014 11:04

The continuing thread for those of us following the 5:2 fast or other forms of fasting such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012 and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat normally - or approximately your Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE - see explanation below). 4:3 is the same except you fast on 3 days in the week. Alternate-day fasting (ADF) is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. 16:8 is another form where you stick to only eating in an 8 hour window each day, therefore fasting for 16 hours each day.

By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low; around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.

You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.

WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website or app many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a TDEE calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

NFD = Non fast day.

NSV/LSV = Non scale victory/Lifestyle (change) victory.

Michael Mosley has a website to accompany his book on the subject. Please go check it out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

Lurkers and new starters: please just jump in and post - you'll find a lot of support here and we’re a friendly bunch.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

Other Threads
All our previous threads can be found by browsing through the fasting section of the site.

Tips and Links : breadandwine’s resource for some of the tips and links that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

Inspirational: eatriskier’s thread has some lovely inspiring stories which are worth checking out if you want some motivation to get started or keep going through a plateau. Please add your own too.

Recipes: frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

Exercise: bigchocfrenzy has an incredibly informative and helpful exercise and fitness thread for discussion and advice on combining 5:2 with an exercise regime.

Maintaining: If you've been at this a while and are moving on to maintaining your goal weight, there is a thread here to discuss that.

Other links
This is a BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon - link to that programme here.

This Telegraph article comments on the diet and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley himself, very informative if you're just starting.

This blog post gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

This link nicely demonstrates that there are many ‘right’ body shapes and types, because what we are actually aiming for is low body fat for fitness and health.

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5lbs reduction in body weight and a 4cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant. It also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

If you’ve been researching IF you may have come across this article which is highly negative about women with BMI in the normal range. Here’s our response to that:

  • With a healthy BMI, those who want to be leaner will usually find weight and waist loss to be much slower than for overweight folk, since, less fat and inches are available to lose.
  • The women with healthy BMIs already had healthier blood sugar than the men in the study. Hence nothing really needed improving.
  • Women who have had health problems on IF were NOT doing 5:2, but the
much tougher ADF or 16:8, ^combined with heavy lifting (often multiples of body weight) AND were often starting from already ultra-low BF 12-16% range.^

-Many were already missing periods or had EDs before IF, due to the low BF %, over-training and over-stressing.

5:2 is a gentler form of IF than ADF or Leangains and there’s plenty of anecdotal evidence from longterm 5:2ers, now with healthy BMI, who are continuing to have very positive results and experiences on this WOE.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful.

A HUGE THANK YOU to Greeneggsandnicht for putting together all this info and resources into one concise OP text, much appreciated by so many 5:2ers!

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this way of life!

And lastly, a few FAQs/Healthy tips :

  • WATER: Start each day with a pint of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • Hot drinks: no limits on tea or coffee any day, just note any milk / sugar calories on FDs.
  • FDs: concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Old hands skip breakfast & save most cals for supper.
  • NFDs: no rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar, artificial sweeteners, fizzy drinks, junk food. A few treats per week are good though! Aim to average TDEE over NFDs each week, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • CLENCH for health: men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily.
  • Do NOT fast: if pregnant, under 21, have EDs, any illness, even a bad cold. When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So eat to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks.
  • Check with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate).
  • BREASTFEEDERS: start with 1000-cal FDs; optionally, reduce to 700 cals gradually. You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • SLEEP: everybody needs enough sleep, or weight loss may be slowed.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss if you you do NOT eat back exercise calories. Fasted training can burn more fat. HIIT works well with 5:2/IF.
OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
Eatriskier · 27/03/2014 13:14

Oh thanks computer. Lose the first message, then post it after I had to retype everything Hmm.

Sorry for spamming with my pants

TalkinPeace · 27/03/2014 13:14

Golly gosh these threads are busy

I'm another one who was never very overweight (max BMI was 28)
and I've been at BMI of 23 or under for 13 years now
and just over a year at BMI 21

I am finding the maintaining easier and easier as my body absorbs and discards fat cells it has learned it will never need

I'm fasting today out of habit, but tonight's supper will go over 500 calories
and with work I'm not going to the gym as much as some weeks

if only I could reduce my love of booze I'd be a real skinnymalink!

BigChocFrenzy · 27/03/2014 13:19

Eat Wowser ! You look wonderful and obviously half the woman you were.
You standing in those old tents trousers.
Grin Flowers
btw: may we ask your height, age, TDEE now ? Did you diet before ?
Very relevant to some here who have issues with maintaining / regaining.

TalkinPeace · 27/03/2014 13:21

Eatriskier
LOVE IT!!

MrsFlorrick
I'd be surprised if the damage caused in adulthood over a relatively short term will be permanent : a couple of years and your body will have stopped holding itself ready for an emergency
basically once the kids are full time in school Wink

TwittyMcTwitterson · 27/03/2014 13:29

Big choc, your long post earlier you mentioned short intervals. How short? Guy at gym told me 30 seconds on 30 seconds off. Is that good?

BigChocFrenzy · 27/03/2014 13:46

EvesMum Yes, 30 sec flat out sprinting or skipping, then 15-30 sec fet (depending on fitness level) is the kind of interval I mean, to change metabolism.

initially, if you really do each interval at 100% effort, which is essential, you'll only manage a couple of these.
Ideally build up to say 8. This is classic Tabata, only takes about 8 mins with brief warmup.
Try to do this 2 or 3 times oer week, no more, as it should be very tiring if you do intervals sufficiently intensely.

Note: anyone very overweight or unfit could start with longer, less intense intervals, say 2 mins at 80-90% effort, with 1-2 mins gentle jogging to recover.

zedzedzed · 27/03/2014 13:48

Aha! Thanks meg I'm taking 2-3 500s a day! No itchiness, quite the opposite. Really hope this does it, the improvements great already though.

Hope you managed to save your day 'lou'

TwittyMcTwitterson · 27/03/2014 14:02

Thanks big choc :-)

I did that but every time I went very fast the machine shook Shock and it's hard to do it 100 per cent on arc trainer because it just wouldn't go as fast as I wanted.

It said my heart rate was 193 at one point, then the heart icon turned blue and didn't say any number. Genuinely thought 'oh fuck, I'm dead' for a second. I have no idea if that's genuine because after going slow for a minute it said 113.

BigChocFrenzy · 27/03/2014 14:03

Maintenance
I recommend most people have a 2-part maintenance plan:

  • Stage 1 runs at least 1 year, to keep them at goal weight while their metabolism repairs itself.
The initial TDEE will be lower than calculated. During repair, this TDEE should rise back gradually to normal.
  • Stage 2 is the rest of your life, once metabolism and TDEE have recovered.

You can NEVER return to the kind of eating that caused the original weight gain.

zedzedzed · 27/03/2014 14:04

Wow eat that's amazing!

Pfft...those trousers are probably like the ones I'm so chuffed to be in again! Ah well, long road to travel, getting there eventually is the thing. Based on last weigh-in I guess I've got about 50lbs left to lose to be in the healthy BMI range and another 20lbs to be a skinny minny again... can't believe the difference just 3 short years has made and will make again.

Bloody babies.
Bloody poxies!

Hope all you fasters are powering on through?

mrs F I know it sucks, but at least this woe is sustainable in the meantime and you know how not to gain. I gotta assume I'll be in your boat too and will have to continue with 2xFD p/wk for the foreseeable future when/if I reach my goal, probably.

It's that or add LOADS of exercise/muscle and I'm realistic about my time at the moment, maybe once the babies are at school, till then it's likely just to be loads of beach walking, the odd swim or a dancercise dvd/ps3. I'm ok with that for now.

At least I'll know how not to gain, and my goal TDEE isn't too bad (if it's true) as I'm tall, also I don't drink much these days so maybe I'll manage ok till my bod lets go of it's love of keeping me fat.

Miffytastic · 27/03/2014 14:05

Hello everyone, just checking in. FD on Monday was pretty easy, i think due to the amount I'd eaten the day before... not junk but volume really!

Today... less easy, I'm feeling a bit under the weather, but don't want to lose my 5:2 mojo. haven't exercised this week due to feeling poorly.

Bigchoc I've got a cross trainer, so I can do an interval programme. What kind of timeframe should I aim for as a HIIT workout ?(normally I just do 35 mins of varied ups and downs, standard cardio kind of thing)

Eat looking fab!

Somewhere I'm back again after gaining what I lost (aprox 12lbs) aand then some (about +7 on top of that...) Not finding it too hard so far tbh, but I don't know if it's also slower coming off this time.

BigChocFrenzy · 27/03/2014 14:07

EvesMum Forget machines. Horrendous trying to adjust them, or cope with their inbuilt programs. I never touch 'em.
Either sprint putside, or use a stationary bike (on manual)

HIIT spin classes are also great - they have longer 3 min intervals, but do a lot of good in 60 mins.
My 2 gyms added Tabata to classes for HIIT spin, boxing and crossFit. so I get the benefit of long and short intervals.

BigChocFrenzy · 27/03/2014 14:08

Tabata sessions (to repair metabolism) take 8 mins, so everyone has time, Zed
Smile

TwittyMcTwitterson · 27/03/2014 14:24

This arc trainer has an interval programme? The whole concept is lost on me tho as I see no difference between programme and manual. U think a bike is good? I thought not as good as trainers and treadmills

Chocupid · 27/03/2014 14:56

somewhere your not alone! I did the same, and have read so many similar messages.

I'm finding it hard this time too, no big losses after FD's this time for me, have to focus on the health benefits and the fact I didn't put it ALL back in, to stay motivated Hmm

BigChocFrenzy · 27/03/2014 15:03

Miffy, EvesMum The machines have an idiot-level HIIT which can help burn calories, although nowhere near as many as the machine claims.
it is not sufficiently intense or precise.

I mean something quite different, with a different purpose: Tabata to repair the metabolism.
Much shorter and more intense, 100% mental & physical concentration.
100% effort for 30 seconds, rest 20-30, repeat a few times
You should be exhausted after an 8 min session.

You can't switch off your brain and let a machine do this for you - I have never seen Tabata programmed properly into a machine.

How to do it:

  • With a crosstrainer or stationary bike, switch it to manual and ramp up the resistance high.
So, you do your fast and slow intervals using the high resistance.
  • OR go outside for fresh air benefits - sprinting or skipping intervals

Read Mosely's Fast Exercise Book, which has great detail and science

BigChocFrenzy · 27/03/2014 15:10

Trying Again After Weight Reagin
As explained, after weight loss, you are vulnerable to regain for at least a year, due to meta olism / lower TDEE than normal.

If you gain the weight back, the body seems really determined to hang onto it this time round, see homeostatis / set point.
That is why so many find it tougher the 2nd time round to lose the same weight.

However, it can be done with persistemce & determination.
We are strong kick-ass women ! Smile ^^

Miffytastic · 27/03/2014 15:11

Thanks BigChoc will get the book

Eatriskier · 27/03/2014 15:32

overtired bigchoc and others - thanks! They were size 20s, which I actually thought were 18s thanks to the hanger and got very depressed when I discovered that not only were they a size larger, they were tight! Now I am an 8 generally (or a 6 in Tesco because they're mad).

Vital stats: I'm 5'5, 34 and current TDEE is around 2100 (sedentary is 1590). Only ever did the GI diet, which was more of a lifestyle change that resulted in weight loss rather than actually attempting to diet but ultimately never stuck to it.

almostthereagain · 27/03/2014 15:48

Hello again all, not had time to keep checking in but looking forward to catching up with the thread later. I'm up another 1/2 lb this week but have not been logging so will need to be more disciplined, hard when I'm busySad I have been managing to keep up the exercise & shape is def improving so not all bad I suppose.
We have a full w/e of family festivities (eating) so plan to put in a bit more effort next week. It really does help to keep focus by contributing to the thread & having the support. Am SO determined to lose these last lbs for good by summer!

Octopus37 · 27/03/2014 16:47

Woe Eatriskier that is a massive weight loss. I did my FDs on Monday and Wednesday. Problem I'm having (although I find the FDs difficult at times) is stopping myself (failing at this) from eating too much on NFDs as I'm so hungry and somehow feel that it is my given right to eat. Have been doing this for four weeks now and I think I might have just about lost 4 pounds, although it may only be 3 but I haven't got a lot to lose, will weigh in again on Sunday or Monday, never do post fast day although may change this.

TalkinPeace · 27/03/2014 16:51

octopus
eating too much on NFDs as I'm so hungry
no, you are thirsty
especially after a fast day

every time you think you are hungry, drink a WHOLE PINT OF WATER and then wait 20 minutes
chances are you will no longer be hungry

if you are still hungry, then have something small and high protein and then see how you feel

most westerners are dehydrated much of the time
DRINK MORE WATER

TwittyMcTwitterson · 27/03/2014 17:06

Thank you big choc Smile

MazzleDazzle · 27/03/2014 17:08

At my HIIT class for each drill (burpees, suicides, mountain climbs, jumping knees to chest, squats etc all with weights where possible) we do 30 seconds flat out, then 10 seconds rest, x 8. It near kills me every time! Other than a weight and a mat, you need nothing else and the whole thing takes half an hour.

Saw on the Which? programme today a review of fitbits and other such gadgetry. Fitbits in particular vastly overestimate calories burned and are unreliable in that you could do the same exercise again and again, but get a completely different reading!

Just back from the school fete where I used up all my 500 FD cals Blush. Carrot cake and hot cross bun! Ah well, tea and water until tomorrow it is then...

Circuit training later on tonight, then early night with an empty tummy. I'm freezing too! As I type I'm wearing a dress,leggings, uggs, cardi, dressing gown and scarf! Brrrr.

Anyway fasters, we've almost made it! The worst part is over. Come on, let's bring it home!

Tiredemma · 27/03/2014 17:14

I came across this site earlier-

www.12minuteathlete.com/start-here/

It has a PDF on it with some HIIT exercises (12 mins in total). I thought it was a good site.

I cant get to the Gym with a baby in the house and limited time so thought I might give this a go.