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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

The 5:2 thread number 41: Springing into March or marching into spring? Either way, more sunshine means easier fast days! Come and join us in getting healthier, the fast way.

999 replies

BetsyBell · 15/03/2014 11:04

The continuing thread for those of us following the 5:2 fast or other forms of fasting such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012 and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat normally - or approximately your Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE - see explanation below). 4:3 is the same except you fast on 3 days in the week. Alternate-day fasting (ADF) is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. 16:8 is another form where you stick to only eating in an 8 hour window each day, therefore fasting for 16 hours each day.

By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low; around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.

You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.

WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website or app many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a TDEE calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

NFD = Non fast day.

NSV/LSV = Non scale victory/Lifestyle (change) victory.

Michael Mosley has a website to accompany his book on the subject. Please go check it out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

Lurkers and new starters: please just jump in and post - you'll find a lot of support here and we’re a friendly bunch.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

Other Threads
All our previous threads can be found by browsing through the fasting section of the site.

Tips and Links : breadandwine’s resource for some of the tips and links that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

Inspirational: eatriskier’s thread has some lovely inspiring stories which are worth checking out if you want some motivation to get started or keep going through a plateau. Please add your own too.

Recipes: frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

Exercise: bigchocfrenzy has an incredibly informative and helpful exercise and fitness thread for discussion and advice on combining 5:2 with an exercise regime.

Maintaining: If you've been at this a while and are moving on to maintaining your goal weight, there is a thread here to discuss that.

Other links
This is a BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon - link to that programme here.

This Telegraph article comments on the diet and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley himself, very informative if you're just starting.

This blog post gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

This link nicely demonstrates that there are many ‘right’ body shapes and types, because what we are actually aiming for is low body fat for fitness and health.

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5lbs reduction in body weight and a 4cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant. It also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

If you’ve been researching IF you may have come across this article which is highly negative about women with BMI in the normal range. Here’s our response to that:

  • With a healthy BMI, those who want to be leaner will usually find weight and waist loss to be much slower than for overweight folk, since, less fat and inches are available to lose.
  • The women with healthy BMIs already had healthier blood sugar than the men in the study. Hence nothing really needed improving.
  • Women who have had health problems on IF were NOT doing 5:2, but the
much tougher ADF or 16:8, ^combined with heavy lifting (often multiples of body weight) AND were often starting from already ultra-low BF 12-16% range.^

-Many were already missing periods or had EDs before IF, due to the low BF %, over-training and over-stressing.

5:2 is a gentler form of IF than ADF or Leangains and there’s plenty of anecdotal evidence from longterm 5:2ers, now with healthy BMI, who are continuing to have very positive results and experiences on this WOE.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful.

A HUGE THANK YOU to Greeneggsandnicht for putting together all this info and resources into one concise OP text, much appreciated by so many 5:2ers!

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this way of life!

And lastly, a few FAQs/Healthy tips :

  • WATER: Start each day with a pint of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • Hot drinks: no limits on tea or coffee any day, just note any milk / sugar calories on FDs.
  • FDs: concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Old hands skip breakfast & save most cals for supper.
  • NFDs: no rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar, artificial sweeteners, fizzy drinks, junk food. A few treats per week are good though! Aim to average TDEE over NFDs each week, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • CLENCH for health: men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily.
  • Do NOT fast: if pregnant, under 21, have EDs, any illness, even a bad cold. When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So eat to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks.
  • Check with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate).
  • BREASTFEEDERS: start with 1000-cal FDs; optionally, reduce to 700 cals gradually. You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • SLEEP: everybody needs enough sleep, or weight loss may be slowed.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss if you you do NOT eat back exercise calories. Fasted training can burn more fat. HIIT works well with 5:2/IF.
OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
Boleh · 26/03/2014 10:42

lou you can have it tomorrow! Although by then you'll feel so virtuos and proud of your fast day that you'll probably be content with a nibble! Smile

Hang on in there, we can do this. Gym is done, I was a bit pathetic but no total collapse, now shower and meeting - I will not cry at my mentor about what an arse my boss is this time!!

PrimalLass · 26/03/2014 10:51

runninglou it is just food weight - don't panic Grin Hang on in there.

FD for me too. Finally broke my plateau weight this morning after 3 weeks of bobbing up and down a few lbs. Hope that having a FD means I will manage to go down another one.

Having a fuller-for-longer M&S thai curry for dinner. I said the kids can have f&c (what was I thinking???)

FridayJones · 26/03/2014 11:03

Hi all... Been offline since last week, the whole job losses thing got on top of me. I knew pretty much every one.
Also my post fast day weigh in was very disappointing before I realised AF was on the way.
Managed to do my fast days, and although I went over tdee at the weekend, I did a lot of balancing too, if I knew I was having friends over, I didn't have lunch, that kind of thing.
Anyway, I've not gained any poundage despite have three social events on one weekend which is good and I've my second fast of the week tomorrow.
Usually this is a bad time of year for me, Easter and multiple birthdays close together so I'm keen to use 5:2 to best advantage to enjoy celebrations, while not piling it on, and then smoothly continuing onwards (downwards), instead of sliding into "oh just f*ck it" land.
Hope everyone is doing well.

BigChocFrenzy · 26/03/2014 11:26

Lou Weighing twice daily and panicking is NOT helping you.
You are weighing food in various stages of digestion, i.e. weighing future dumps and wees.
Please lock the damn scales in a cupboard for a month and go by how your jeans feel.

Most folk lose 1lb per week on average, not noticeable on a daily basis, but many lose in stops and starts.
Just chill and monitor your progress monthly.

Doris, Boleh This WOL allows for an indulgent few days 500 cals over.
One strict FD afterwards and maybe having 3 FDs that week should handle it.
Most of us save cals beforehand for such breaks, long weekends or social events.
I have a planned healthy refeed every Saturday, during which I eat at least 1,000 cals over TDEE. I adjust my weekly intake to allow this.
It is to maintain my high TDEE and also let my body have what it wants.

Good luck to any Wednesday FDers

BigChocFrenzy · 26/03/2014 11:31

Sorry to hear that Friday; it's only human to feel sad about your former colleagues.
You and Reindeer have both had a rotten time at work lately. There are an increasing number of nasty cold-hearted employers.

Back to the glorious 19th century, it seems, when it comes to workers' rights.
Sad Angry

BigChocFrenzy · 26/03/2014 11:33

Well done Friday for keeping to 5:2 amidst all that turmoil.

CiderwithBuda · 26/03/2014 11:37

Hungry FDer here! Just back from chiropractor. Walked there and back as it's nice here although chilly.

Going to go upstairs and sort washing etc and then vacuum and will then have lunch. Have a fuller longer salad to have.

DH has gone away so I won't be tempted by wine tonight. Or tomorrow night.

Good luck FDers. I must say it does make it easier knowing other people are struggling through a FD too. Misery loves company as they say! Grin

runningLou · 26/03/2014 11:53

BigChoc I really like your theory of the healthy refeed! How do you adjust your other days to allow this? Take 200 cals or so off each NFD?

Will attempt scale detox ... I know it's not helping really. Said to myself this morning after hopping on scales made me start the day in a negative mood - why allow those numbers to define sense of self-worth and self-control?

ErrolTheDragon · 26/03/2014 12:02

Lou - don't forget that the original reason for 5:2 was not weight loss - it was for health benefits. Just so happens people do lose weight on it, more if you're overweight to start with but even if you're not. I've not lost a lot of weight - enough to get back into healthy BMI - but I've definitely lost fat while gaining muscle by also exercising - that's what matters most. I'd be perfectly happy to stay at current weight if I could swap fat for muscle.

ErrolTheDragon · 26/03/2014 12:04

Anyway - NFD, haven't had brekkie again because DH bought a lot of M&S Indian food for tonight and with my pathetically small TDEE something's got to give. I really like my yog/fruit/nuts/seeds breakfast though so I think I might have that at lunchtime (oh... its after 12... give it a little longer)

Labracadabra · 26/03/2014 12:12

SV today to go with my " boots" NSV Smile I've lost 4lb since last Weds so I'm now at 9st 5lb and only 5lb off my pre-preg weight!! I had been on a bit of a plateau so its great to see some results (and so often seems to happen that way with this WOE)

HandMini · 26/03/2014 12:35

Hi everyone, Hi BigChoc, great to see you still here keeping everyone going.

I am FDing today....HUNGRY. Am going to take Cider's advice and get out for a walk in my lunch hour.

I started 5:2 at the beginning of the year and I've lost 7k (did my first weigh in last week). I am so happy. I hope that inspires others to keep going.

zedzedzed · 26/03/2014 13:49

Poxy poxy pox here.

runninglou PUT THE SCALES AWAY!
In all seriousness, give them to a friend you see infrequently, or bin them and hop on in Boots once a month. Some people can weigh daily and have only a casual/geeky curiosity as to what happens numerically and they take note of the number maybe only once a month and are happy seeing a generally downward curve...um...that's not you...or me.

GET THEM THE FECK OUT YOUR HOUSE BEFORE YOU EAT ALL THE PIES!!!

In other news. Pox.
Also the last day of looking after Cantankerous 98yr Old Cow/Granny today. HUZZAH! Back home to our teeny tiny house of mould and half packed boxes...only 5wks till we move to the big house/building site. Yay.

Odd day today, been really busy and really active, but eaten lots of tiny portions of fatty things as I cleared all our stuff out the MIL's fridge... and half an old Twirl. Found an old packet of hoisin duck sausages in the freezer...wondering if I can make them into something yummy...maybe if I de-skin them add spring onions etc and make little patties, with some greens maybe. Hmmm.

Well done all you Wednesday fasters, only 5hrs to go.

Pox. Bloody pox. Best go find the calamine lotion.

plecofjustice · 26/03/2014 14:21

Baths with bicarbonate of soda!

Yesterday's FD was a battle! Still, it's a battle I won at 592 cals and 1.5 kg down since last week! That number's a myth though, it's only cos I was PMS'ing at last week's weigh-in

runningLou · 26/03/2014 14:28

Zed - forget the calamine lotion - piriton syrup all the way!!
Will consider putting scales in loft on return from work tonight ...

Megrim · 26/03/2014 14:29

Beautiful day here, have been for a gentle stroll around Glen Tanar in the spring sunshine. Contemplating having a BBQ this evening, already have the chicken breasts marinading in Chinese spices.

zed Your kids will thank you for having the pox in childhood - I had chicken pox in my 30s, and it was not pleasant.

Megrim · 26/03/2014 14:33

And keep an eye on cantankerous nanny for any signs if shingles, as if you take antivirals within 72 hours of shingles symptoms first appearing it will drastically reduce its severity.

DontBeBlueBeARainbow · 26/03/2014 14:49

Hello fellow FDers, I'm with you today Smile

Ooh I like all the different soothing remedies for chicken pox!

Monday's FD turned into an extremely healthy day/mini-fast, coming in at around 1000 cals, due to illness. It's the first one I haven't successfully completed, so I'm trying to put a positive spin on it and hope it doesn't affect the scales too much this week.

Today's FD is going well so far, just 2 1/2 hours to go at work then home to soup and kale salad, lovely.

I've finally eaten up all potential desserts in the house, so last night's was a banana spread with nut butter and some date syrup. Very nice. Not going to buy any other potential desserts, as I really need to kick my habit!

Sometimes I don't feel like doing this forever.... It's clear I need to, and I much appreciate others' honest and open confessions that they fell off the wagon and put some back on. I will not be a yoyo But how can I keep my enthusiasm going? FDs are alright, I can get through pretty well, but my mood is relatively low. Any advice?

Helliecopter · 26/03/2014 15:19

On pox remedies, I found porridge oats in the bath really helped DD1 when she had them (about 15 months old). Put them in a bit of muslin and they made the bath all milky and oaty - really helped dry the spots out and stop the itching.

The negative feeling to the start of the FD has persisted all day, but I've managed to stick with it. Mostly if you ignore the two little free sausage samples they were handing out at Bury Market.
I walked almost 4 miles at a belting pace, did a bit of shopping, sat nursing a peppermint tea in a cafe whilst giving DD2 her lunch but inhaled some strawberries when we got home. Not too shabby!

run You sound exactly like me. Exactly. But I've managed to get beyond letting the numbers get me down. They can so easily dictate your mood for the day and you get into the whole "it's not working, maybe I should give up, I'm such a failure at dieting, nothing ever works, I'm just going to eat the entire contents of Greggs..."
If you can't take the slightly higher number on a NFD and accept that weight will fluctuate daily by quite a lot, then hide the bloody scales. Just keep doing it and trust it will work. If it doesn't what have you lost? Just time that you would have been stuffing yourself silly anyway...

BetsyBell · 26/03/2014 16:05

Oh pox times Sad - bad luck zed. We've had a lot of chicken pox at school this half term. I second hellie Oats in a muslin run under the tap is a brilliant, soothing bath remedy. Anti histamine too if you need harder stuff. Found calamine to be useless.

Feeling exhausted again today, craving white carbs - not helped by DS2 (at home as teacher on strike) requesting we buy tiger bread today. Can I stop thinking about it? Of course not. I'm thinking I'll nibble away now and not have dinner, or just have a bit of salad. (NFD)

Or maybe I'll just go to bed .

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 26/03/2014 17:07

Great to hear your SVs, Labracada, HandMini. Such news always motivates anyone feeling down.

Don'tBeBlue Don't try to fast when ill, unless you don't fancy food.
Drink loads, aim for a healthy-eating TDEE and have an FD when you feel fully recovered.

Betsy I'm sure your DS is thriving now. He may need feeding up, but you don't.
Now the tension is over, do NOT not give in to the White Junk Frenzy.
You are stronger than that. Use any white loaf for TaeKwanDo practice
Grin
Zed Blimey, you've earned massive family brownie points, caring for that ratty old bag gran.

Sorry to hear about your house of plague.
I remember MrsF used Manuka honey externally to sooth her face and avoid scarring when her skin erupted with something nasty.
Might be a bit messy with young DCs though - your furniture and bedding !
Grin

zedzedzed · 26/03/2014 17:09

Thanks all! Me too meg ended up in hospital with the pox in my 20s as I couldn't swallow, ended up with a morphine drip; yum.

I'm kinda hoping the baby gets a wee dose too now as I wouldn't wish pox on any adult...even Cantankerous Old nanny (who has had both pox and shingles before, but may still be up for a dose of this, it's a real worry as she is very frail, we've evacuated the house now but it's been incubating for ages so if she's getting it she's got it. Gulp).

I have the oats and muzzies from a (useless) attempt to help my psoriasis so will try on The boy, so far he's not even poorly or itchy, just VERY spotty and imprisoned at home.

That reminds me, who recommended royal Jelly for my psoriasis? Was it meg? or mazzle? Well, I don't want to speak too soon, but it's been about 5wks now and, miracle of miracles there's a DEFINITE improvement in the last 2 weeks (no more itching or weeping, and patches reduced significantly) .Thanks SOOOO much for the tip, it will be amazing if this turns out to be my cure as I've been dreading a slimmer summer where I STILL have to wear maxi-sacks and cardis to cover my plague.

I've eaten many, many peanutbutter fingers today, I have no idea why, I'll be fasting again tomorrow and on the building site at the wknd so food will be non homemade but all counted and lots of DIY and beach walks to balance it out. This has not been a good week, within tdee but very trashy (carb bleed from birthday splurge I think) I'll keep it within my allowed borders and be strictly nutritious AND within TDEE again next week; as long as I'm not gaining and losing a little I'm happy to let this blip play out.

Only a couple of hours till dinner FD peeps, COME ON!!

BigChocFrenzy · 26/03/2014 17:11

Lou To enable my Saturday healthy refeed - VERY different to a binge - I eat under my TDEE on 3 of the other NFDs. I usually have another FD around TDEE with a big treat.

I maintain easily, so I don't count NFD cals properly, just check occasionally at the end of a day. 'm another who does 5:2 because I enjoy the health benefits.

I happily weigh daily, because numbers go directly in the maths part of my brain, not the emotional side.
I've kept a brief weight, food & exercise diary for several years, no reason except sheer geekism
Smile

ErrolTheDragon · 26/03/2014 17:19

Good luck with the poxy children zed. My DD never caught it so we had her vaccinated a few months ago - didn't want her catching it during her GCSE or exam years or as an adult. Apparently its a standard vac. in the US nowadays.

BetsyBell · 26/03/2014 17:24

You're dead wrong about me being stronger than that! I've succumbed but not frenzied. I've had my evening meal calories already and that's fine. They weren't the healthiest calories I've ever had but they weren't too awful either and I feel satisfied.

I tend to have one day a week where I do this. It's not a problem as long as I acknowledge that I have eaten and that I am full. Then I don't mindlessly eat another meal when I feed everyone else.

My natural eating times, left to my own devices (rare), would be mid morning and 4pm.

OP posts: