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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

The 5:2 thread number 41: Springing into March or marching into spring? Either way, more sunshine means easier fast days! Come and join us in getting healthier, the fast way.

999 replies

BetsyBell · 15/03/2014 11:04

The continuing thread for those of us following the 5:2 fast or other forms of fasting such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012 and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat normally - or approximately your Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE - see explanation below). 4:3 is the same except you fast on 3 days in the week. Alternate-day fasting (ADF) is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. 16:8 is another form where you stick to only eating in an 8 hour window each day, therefore fasting for 16 hours each day.

By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low; around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.

You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.

WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website or app many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a TDEE calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

NFD = Non fast day.

NSV/LSV = Non scale victory/Lifestyle (change) victory.

Michael Mosley has a website to accompany his book on the subject. Please go check it out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

Lurkers and new starters: please just jump in and post - you'll find a lot of support here and we’re a friendly bunch.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

Other Threads
All our previous threads can be found by browsing through the fasting section of the site.

Tips and Links : breadandwine’s resource for some of the tips and links that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

Inspirational: eatriskier’s thread has some lovely inspiring stories which are worth checking out if you want some motivation to get started or keep going through a plateau. Please add your own too.

Recipes: frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

Exercise: bigchocfrenzy has an incredibly informative and helpful exercise and fitness thread for discussion and advice on combining 5:2 with an exercise regime.

Maintaining: If you've been at this a while and are moving on to maintaining your goal weight, there is a thread here to discuss that.

Other links
This is a BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon - link to that programme here.

This Telegraph article comments on the diet and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley himself, very informative if you're just starting.

This blog post gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

This link nicely demonstrates that there are many ‘right’ body shapes and types, because what we are actually aiming for is low body fat for fitness and health.

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5lbs reduction in body weight and a 4cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant. It also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

If you’ve been researching IF you may have come across this article which is highly negative about women with BMI in the normal range. Here’s our response to that:

  • With a healthy BMI, those who want to be leaner will usually find weight and waist loss to be much slower than for overweight folk, since, less fat and inches are available to lose.
  • The women with healthy BMIs already had healthier blood sugar than the men in the study. Hence nothing really needed improving.
  • Women who have had health problems on IF were NOT doing 5:2, but the
much tougher ADF or 16:8, ^combined with heavy lifting (often multiples of body weight) AND were often starting from already ultra-low BF 12-16% range.^

-Many were already missing periods or had EDs before IF, due to the low BF %, over-training and over-stressing.

5:2 is a gentler form of IF than ADF or Leangains and there’s plenty of anecdotal evidence from longterm 5:2ers, now with healthy BMI, who are continuing to have very positive results and experiences on this WOE.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful.

A HUGE THANK YOU to Greeneggsandnicht for putting together all this info and resources into one concise OP text, much appreciated by so many 5:2ers!

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this way of life!

And lastly, a few FAQs/Healthy tips :

  • WATER: Start each day with a pint of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • Hot drinks: no limits on tea or coffee any day, just note any milk / sugar calories on FDs.
  • FDs: concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Old hands skip breakfast & save most cals for supper.
  • NFDs: no rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar, artificial sweeteners, fizzy drinks, junk food. A few treats per week are good though! Aim to average TDEE over NFDs each week, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • CLENCH for health: men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily.
  • Do NOT fast: if pregnant, under 21, have EDs, any illness, even a bad cold. When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So eat to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks.
  • Check with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate).
  • BREASTFEEDERS: start with 1000-cal FDs; optionally, reduce to 700 cals gradually. You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • SLEEP: everybody needs enough sleep, or weight loss may be slowed.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss if you you do NOT eat back exercise calories. Fasted training can burn more fat. HIIT works well with 5:2/IF.
OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
DorisAllTheDay · 25/03/2014 22:14

Mazzle, you sound on top of the world! Lovely post.

The weirdest thing just happened. I got the cravings. I think my dinner must have been more carby than I'd realised, because the carb monster got loose. So I decided to log on and send a 'Help me' message to all of you guys, asking for urgent advice - it was the only way I could think of to stop myself putting on my coat and heading out to Sainsburys (5 mins walk away, doesn't close till 11pm). I had my desperate post written in my head and I started to type it. And then the monster went away leaving me without the slightest wish to eat anything. Thank you all for scaring my monster away before I even managed to finish asking you!

Is anyone else worried about Reindeer? Last time she posted she was extremely poorly with her tonsillitis and she sounded very low. I'm worried she might now be not only poorly and in low spirits, but poorly, in low spirits and without a job because of her evil school managers. Reindeer, if you're reading, I'm thinking about you and I hope you're OK.

TwittyMcTwitterson · 25/03/2014 22:16

Doris, this gym is a small one. Basically one small room in a leisure centre full of body perfect people who know what they're doing. Fills me with fear. I want to be one of them

BetsyBell · 25/03/2014 22:16

Lifestyle change victory of sorts: DH has got back into running and has realised it's a hell of a lot easier if no booze has been consumed the night before, plus we both made a conscious decision to be tee total in the run up to the DS op over the weekend. Neither of us has drunk or wanted any alcohol for over a week.

We've been through some stiff drink territory stuff and neither of us has even thought about it - only occurred to me when someone else mentioned it.

I rarely drink now since starting taekwondo. Exercise is a nicer way to deal with stress of life than food or drink. Now that is a lifestyle change victory!!!!

OP posts:
BetsyBell · 25/03/2014 22:21

Doris If reindeer has had to force herself into work this week then I bet she's been climbing straight into bed on getting home Sad. Not all schools are run like that - I work for a lovely school that trusts its staff and cares about their welfare. Hugs for reindeer.

And of course: DORIS!!! You don't need to eat the crap!!! Get yourself into a hot bath pronto, it's waaaaay too late to be shopping for junk. AND IT'S COLD OUT THERE! Don't make me some over there - I've got kicking and punching skills and I WILL use them!

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TalkinPeace · 25/03/2014 22:23

Betsybell
the booze is my problem
I can go all week just fine but get a "drinking head" on a Friday - and churn through a LOT of calories
and never sleep well ....

CiderwithBuda · 25/03/2014 22:25

Mazzle - I had uncontrollable pmt years ago and I found acupuncture good. Really sorted it out.

Doris - I was thinking of Reindeer earlier. Had radio 2 on and doctor Hilary jones was on and I caught a snippet of him saying something along the lines that people continuing to work even when ill with a virus are causing superbugs. I felt it was unfair to blame 'people' when most of them are too afraid of being fired to stay home!

A reasonable NFD here although I did have a gin and slimline tonic and shared a bottle of red with DH.

A 'proper' FD tomorrow.

BetsyBell · 25/03/2014 22:33

Eveesmummy I'm a classic pear shape with all my excess fat seemingly gathering for a big party on my thighs. BUT 50lbs down and they are a hell of a lot better and the cellulite is less of an issue. I'm even uncovering some muscle in the area! I no longer feel like I need to pop a bag/jumper/book on my legs when I sit down (large thighed ladies will know what I'm talking about!)

I think I've got my photos up at the moment - you'll see what I mean - legs are now strong looking rather than lardy!

Mazzle What a lovely post! LIFESTYLE CHANGE VICTORY Grin (apart from the hormones - is it worth going the GP about? I have mirena iud and do not have hormonal mood swings - or periods... I know not everyone gets on with it but I really love it. I don't think I've had a period since DS1 was a baby - that's nearly 10 years ago!)

OP posts:
BetsyBell · 25/03/2014 22:36

Tip Do you mind it though or does it work ok for you? You're pretty short on vices and seem to do fine with sod all calories in the week after all...

OP posts:
BetsyBell · 25/03/2014 22:38

Where's Doris? You'd better not have gone to Sainsbo's after all Wink - Are we trusting that the monster was scared away...?

OP posts:
BetsyBell · 25/03/2014 22:39

Eugh, I'm all hopped up on cookies and Taekwondo aren't I? I should be going to bed not jabbering away on here.

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Southeastdweller · 25/03/2014 22:44

We're keeping on eye on you Doris and don't you forget it! Betsy is right - you don't need that crap.

Boleh · 26/03/2014 05:12

Right - I've just managed to catch up the 8 pages that whizzed by while I've been slacking! reindeer I hope you are feeling better and doris that you successfully avoided the dreaded Sainsburys.

Congratulations all round on SVs, NSVs, back in the wagon, joining the wagon and successful FDs Smile

I have my sister and her boyfriend visiting at the moment so we went away for a long weekend and when we got back I took them out so 4 days of shocking food, meals out, excessive hotel breakfast and cookies and Pringles to get us through flights, airports and bus journeys. I've tried to MFP it all and been pretty much 500-800 over TDEE for 4 days Shock

So, they are away for 2 days now so attempting 2 FDs in a row, 1st went fine but 2nd is definitely more challenging! Just had my pea soup for lunch, about 90 cals and normally does me well but today my stomach is still growling with hunger and trying to digest itself!!

Need to get back to the office and push on with this, I have my gym session at 5.30, just hoping I don't faint or drop the weights!! Someone please reassure me that exercise at the end of a 2nd consecutive fast day is not a totally stupid idea?!

My sister will be back tomorrow lunchtime and then we are all away for a long weekend so the damage will start again... Must not quit today...!

MelanieCheeks · 26/03/2014 07:16

Boleh, it takes about 3,500 cals to make one pound of weight. So even eating at 800 cals over your TDEE for 4 days does not amount to one pound. Good luck with your consecutive fast days!

BreakOutTheKaraoke · 26/03/2014 07:32

Morning all! Hope everyones feeling better today.

First FD of the week done yesterday, all went smoothly enough with a mini pasta/cup a soup thing for lunch (last minute grab from the shops, thought I was going to have to go without lunch), and a chicken and spinach omelette at around 9 last night. Enjoying a cuppa now while considering whether to start breakfast now or hang on a bit.

Octopus37 · 26/03/2014 07:53

Second FD of the week today, didn't find it too bad on Monday but feel hungry today already and its only 7.52. Tend to find though that I start the day thinking o no I'm going to be so hungry and then I find that it gradually gets a bit better, then I struggle again in the evening. Still, I put on my black jeggings just now and they don't feel as tight as they did three weeks ago so must be doing something right despite a very modest weight loss she says.

ErrolTheDragon · 26/03/2014 08:00

I need to dig out some tighter trousers (must have some, don't want to buy new just yet) ... DH has gleefully discovered the jeans I'm wearing at the moment now have easy gropeage room.HmmGrin

DorisAllTheDay · 26/03/2014 08:31

Morning campers! FD here today (last chance this week), the sun is shining and all is good - it's a busy day at work which always helps, and the monster's gone into hiding from Betsy and southeast. I didn't go to Sainsburys last night because somehow you lot scared the monster away before I was even halfway through my post. Must remember that.

Well done on yesterday's fast, Karaoke. I try to manage without breakfast these days, but not the day after an FD, that's too much for me.

Glad to hear about your trouser difficulties, Errol. Wink

Good luck with your second FD, Boleh. I tend to think that this WOL should make it possible to have indulgent weekends every now and then, knowing that we're still in control and can pay back (or pay forward) the extra calories. After all, if this is about the long-term and a sustainable way of eating forever, it has to allow us to live enjoyably. I don't mean that it should be a life of short-cycle yo-yo dieting with binges and fasting following in succession, but an approach to eating that allows us to have some fun within healthy and disciplined parameters. At least, that's what I'm hoping it'll be, though I know I've got a long way to go still. Quite honestly, 500-800 calories over TDEE per day doesn't sound like a lot to me - when I'm binging I can easily clock up 5000 calories in a day. It just sounds like you were enjoying yourself around food in a 'normal' (as opposed to monster raging out of control) way and that's perfectly fine. A few FDs will soon undo any damage.

I felt it was unfair to blame 'people' when most of them are too afraid of being fired to stay home

I couldn't agree more, Cider. And on that subject, good luck to any teachers who are strking today. About time someone stood up to this government and their corporate chums.

ErrolTheDragon · 26/03/2014 08:35

Well done Doris - now you know that when the monster starts trying to re-emerge you can slam it back in its box.

TwittyMcTwitterson · 26/03/2014 08:36

Betsy, I know exactly what you mean re jumpers and books! Hmm

Where are the pics? I'm on my mobile so can't see them but I'll nip to the computer and have a gander. It's very very nice to have hope Grin

zedzedzed · 26/03/2014 08:37

Pox. My house is full of pox, chicken-derived.
Thank Christ all the adults have had it so it's just the kidlies.
But here's hoping the Cantankerous Old Nanny doesn't now get shingles.

Bloody Pox.
That is all.

Helliecopter · 26/03/2014 08:40

Morning team. How are we all?
Not sure what to do today. I should be having a FD but I kinda feel like I need a food day. I've had a grapefruit and now I'm going to take the baby on a really long walk to see if it distracts me long enough for the food monster to get back in her box. If not then maybe I'll have a mini fast day. Not sure. Bit of a strange mood today!
Okay - trainers on.

Helliecopter · 26/03/2014 08:40

Oh zed Angry

Boleh · 26/03/2014 09:08

Oh no zed that's rubbish!

Errol my DP was also delighted to find some of my shorts now have space for both his hands - hmmm Hmm

melanie and doris thanks - I know it's not a mega calorie overload, I'm just annoyed with myself that some of it was such utter junk! A full on binge was prevented by my sister having to pretty much restrain me from buying the 3rd tube of Pringles in a row... Blush but I didn't need to buy the 1st one, or the cookies... I bought them for us all to nibble on when we were away but by the time we got there I'd basically eaten the 1st lot! I don't mind so much when the calories come from good tasty treats like Monday nights delicious Indian meal.

Anyway, I've made it to 5pm, tummy is grumbling so gym then evening meeting them late food so hopefully hunger won't keep me awake.

I have a plan and I have support from you lovely folk - I can do this! Smile

runningLou · 26/03/2014 09:45

FD here for me ... Made the mistake of getting on the scales again this morning. MUST STOP OBSESSIVE (twice daily) WEIGHING!! I was encouraged by Tuesday's weight after Monday's FD, but this morning was 1lb heavier after an NFD even though I was well under TDEE. It's awful as I can feel the doubts creeping in and thinking - well if it's not working and you're just going to gain it all back then what's the point you might as well just run into Starbucks now and eat their entire stock of cinammon swirls (have done this previously Blush) rather than ordering that black filter coffee you stupid girl.
Ah - the diet sabotaging voice in my head. I need to SWITCH IT OFF or TUNE IT OUT!!

runningLou · 26/03/2014 09:47

... and before anyone asks why I was crazy enough to go into Starbucks on an FD, I was meeting students in there! And I fed them homemade flapjack I made last night and didn't even sneak a crumb of that delicious combination of oats and butter and syrup and ... stopping now. Sip the black coffee!!

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