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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

The 5:2 thread number 41: Springing into March or marching into spring? Either way, more sunshine means easier fast days! Come and join us in getting healthier, the fast way.

999 replies

BetsyBell · 15/03/2014 11:04

The continuing thread for those of us following the 5:2 fast or other forms of fasting such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012 and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat normally - or approximately your Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE - see explanation below). 4:3 is the same except you fast on 3 days in the week. Alternate-day fasting (ADF) is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. 16:8 is another form where you stick to only eating in an 8 hour window each day, therefore fasting for 16 hours each day.

By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low; around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.

You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.

WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website or app many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a TDEE calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

NFD = Non fast day.

NSV/LSV = Non scale victory/Lifestyle (change) victory.

Michael Mosley has a website to accompany his book on the subject. Please go check it out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

Lurkers and new starters: please just jump in and post - you'll find a lot of support here and we’re a friendly bunch.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

Other Threads
All our previous threads can be found by browsing through the fasting section of the site.

Tips and Links : breadandwine’s resource for some of the tips and links that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

Inspirational: eatriskier’s thread has some lovely inspiring stories which are worth checking out if you want some motivation to get started or keep going through a plateau. Please add your own too.

Recipes: frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

Exercise: bigchocfrenzy has an incredibly informative and helpful exercise and fitness thread for discussion and advice on combining 5:2 with an exercise regime.

Maintaining: If you've been at this a while and are moving on to maintaining your goal weight, there is a thread here to discuss that.

Other links
This is a BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon - link to that programme here.

This Telegraph article comments on the diet and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley himself, very informative if you're just starting.

This blog post gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

This link nicely demonstrates that there are many ‘right’ body shapes and types, because what we are actually aiming for is low body fat for fitness and health.

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5lbs reduction in body weight and a 4cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant. It also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

If you’ve been researching IF you may have come across this article which is highly negative about women with BMI in the normal range. Here’s our response to that:

  • With a healthy BMI, those who want to be leaner will usually find weight and waist loss to be much slower than for overweight folk, since, less fat and inches are available to lose.
  • The women with healthy BMIs already had healthier blood sugar than the men in the study. Hence nothing really needed improving.
  • Women who have had health problems on IF were NOT doing 5:2, but the
much tougher ADF or 16:8, ^combined with heavy lifting (often multiples of body weight) AND were often starting from already ultra-low BF 12-16% range.^

-Many were already missing periods or had EDs before IF, due to the low BF %, over-training and over-stressing.

5:2 is a gentler form of IF than ADF or Leangains and there’s plenty of anecdotal evidence from longterm 5:2ers, now with healthy BMI, who are continuing to have very positive results and experiences on this WOE.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful.

A HUGE THANK YOU to Greeneggsandnicht for putting together all this info and resources into one concise OP text, much appreciated by so many 5:2ers!

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this way of life!

And lastly, a few FAQs/Healthy tips :

  • WATER: Start each day with a pint of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • Hot drinks: no limits on tea or coffee any day, just note any milk / sugar calories on FDs.
  • FDs: concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Old hands skip breakfast & save most cals for supper.
  • NFDs: no rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar, artificial sweeteners, fizzy drinks, junk food. A few treats per week are good though! Aim to average TDEE over NFDs each week, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • CLENCH for health: men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily.
  • Do NOT fast: if pregnant, under 21, have EDs, any illness, even a bad cold. When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So eat to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks.
  • Check with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate).
  • BREASTFEEDERS: start with 1000-cal FDs; optionally, reduce to 700 cals gradually. You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • SLEEP: everybody needs enough sleep, or weight loss may be slowed.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss if you you do NOT eat back exercise calories. Fasted training can burn more fat. HIIT works well with 5:2/IF.
OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
BigChocFrenzy · 24/03/2014 11:55

Betsy Thinking of you and your DS today, sending good chocolatey vibes to you both.
Do let us know how he got on, when you have your breath back.
Flowers
Run We can only offer sympathy and outrage at your cold-hearted governors.
I hope the strike demands include decent treatment of sick teachers.

IPokedABadgerWithASpoon · 24/03/2014 11:57

Thinking of you and DS too today Betsy Thanks

ErrolTheDragon · 24/03/2014 11:58

Cider - LOF is a 'liquid only fast' - which means zero or very low cal drinks - up to about 50cals total I think is reckoned ok.

CiderwithBuda · 24/03/2014 12:04

Thanks Errol.

BigChocFrenzy · 24/03/2014 12:06

Cider LOF = Liquid Only Fast. I personally exclude thick or lumpy liquids like soups.
LOFs can be either "zero-cal", which is up to 50 cal FD total,
OR the full 500/600 FD, with say RTD protein shakes like in the Mattson study.

RoundN Example for a Monday FD:

  • No food after Sunday supper
  • Have total 500 cals sometime Monday
  • Tuesday is the NFD - eat your TDEE (or save say 300 cals for the weekend)

Doris Great to see you back in the swing after your lovely hike.

Blondie Well done on that smaller waist, good for your health too.

BigChocFrenzy · 24/03/2014 12:10

Well done on your SV, OverTired, that's an excellent start.

DorisAllTheDay · 24/03/2014 12:28

Cider, LOF is liquid only fast. Some folk manage to do it for the entire FD. I try to keep it up till about 2pm by which time I want something a bit more solid.

Zed, I hope you had a wonderful birthday weekend. I'm so there with you and the carb monster thing. Once I start I simply can't stop. Well done for limiting it to a weekend and getting straight back on the wagon. Or should that be the train? And yes, I'm there with you, waving from the next carriage. Can you see me? I have my fingers crossed that Annie, my fellow faller-from-grace is on board - I'm saving a seat for her. Good luck to everyone else on the FD train today.

MrsF, I hope you're over your nasty migraine now.

Betsy, I think today's the day of your DS's op? I've got my fingers crossed for him and for you, and I hope it goes well.

I've been thinking about hunger and hormones since someone posted at the weekend. Hungry is what I am at the moment, it being an FD and all. It's a perfectly manageable sensation, I can distract myself from it, and when I eventually have my evening meal it will be a healthy one which I'll eat slowly, enjoying every mouthful. The urge to binge is quite different. It's an utterly unmanageable, all-consuming longing for refined carbs. At its worst, there's nothing I can do to distract myself from it. It ends with me ramming rubbish into my face as fast as I can go, barely tasting it sometimes. If I've had to go to the shops for bagels, buns and biscuits (which I usually have as I don't keep refined carbs in the house) I can feel utterly desperate as I'm walking home, and usually can't wait to sit down - as soon as I'm through the front door, I'm ripping open the packets and starting to cram the stuff in. The two sensations - being hungry (like now) and pre-binge - are very different. Anyone else find this? So I do think my appetite is set too high, as the links to the 'gnome' information suggested. I want meals that are too big, and don't really feel satisfied with normal sized ones though I've learnt what they are and when to stop. But the binge thing seems to be a quite different problem, at least it feels it, and a much, much harder one to crack.

Overtiredmum · 24/03/2014 12:32

Thanks Choc, I never expected a number like that, I had to double and triple check my scales were working properly Grin Its not just the SV though, my clothes are definitely looser and I feel so much better for it, not bloated at all and just generally more alert, if that makes sense??

I need to start incorporating some exercise into my day, I do alot of walking and last week I made sure I really got my heart pumping on my walk to and from the coach to work. I only managed exercise once last week, my knee is still really hurting and its generally pretty late by the time I get the DC home and into bed during the week, so I will need to try and incorporate it into my weekends is probably my only option at the moment.

DorisAllTheDay · 24/03/2014 12:35

Ooops, didn't see the final page before I posted.

Don'tBeBlue I hope you feel better soon. Congratulations on reaching your all-time low, and I'm sure you'll soon be back there and even into the 9s if you want to be. What's your target?

Thanks, BigChoc, I do feel back in the swing, and there's no way I would have been without this thread. I'd missed the news about a teachers' strike but I agree, I hope it covers conditions like sick leave as well as pay. I'm still aghast at the way Reindeer has been treated and it shouldn't be allowed to happen.

zedzedzed · 24/03/2014 12:45

BETSY love and kisses to your little one today...and a big bottle of Wine for you and your DH when it's all over.

XXX

zedzedzed · 24/03/2014 12:55

Yup Doris it's a totally different feeling...I wonder what that's all about? What is the ACTUAL need we are trying to satisfy when we want to binge, coz it sure as hell isn't hunger!

I know I used to go through phases of being scared of being slim, even though it was what I desperately wanted, it also freaked me out; like I'd have no excuses left for being unhappy, dissatisfied, alone; whatever.

There was also something about getting fat and seeing who REALLY loved me (if they loved me fat then they must really mean it). My DH watched me go from a 10 to a 20 and loved me and fancied me all through those preggo changes, despite worrying for me. So I'm cured of the need to have people prove themselves.

I guess that's why I'm finally ready to get off the Fatty Go Round and just get slim and stay that way...I think I've addressed the things that were allowing me to binge/starve and now I just want to eat food for hunger and pleasure in a moderate way...and one day white carbs will be a normal part of that, but for now I'll keep them for days when I feel sorted enough to just have a kidsize portion of them

Papayasoup · 24/03/2014 13:11

I don't post very often but I'm still around checking in on te thread. My fasts are not as good as they should be but that is ok as I'm being mindful, doing 16:8 and mini fasts and maintaining. Room for improvement but hey ho.

I just wanted to say how much I admire all of you who back on the wagon/train and doing a lot of soul searching while looking for a healthier relationship with food. I'm rooting for you!

Betsy, good luck today

Mrs F, reindeer, I hope you feel better

My fast day went to pot slightly but tomorrow is another day. At least the cheese is gone!!! And my day here is done but the bottle of wine is open. Oops!

Happy successful Monday fast everyone

runningLou · 24/03/2014 13:16

Badger I weigh-in every day (sometimes more than once a day ... I know, I know), so that's how I know I'm normally always 2lbs lighter on a Friday than a Monday!!
I like to see the Friday number for positive reinforcement, but I need to see the Monday number to remind me to be good for the week!!

Helliecopter · 24/03/2014 14:04

Hello all...
Quick post to check in as I'm running around with DDs all day today and have millions of jobs to do round the house, but it's keeping me busy on a FD. I've got a gig tonight too and I'm going to have to do my utmost to resist the buffet that's always provided afterwards. I can have it NEXT TIME!
Will catch up with posts properly later hopefully, but sending everyone good vibes for FDs and non-food related matters where needed.
Be nice to yourself ;)
Xx

Ruthemmaherself · 24/03/2014 15:03

Hello there! I'm new to MN and new to IF but starting my first fast today so hope I can join in here?

I'm planning on following the 5:2 plan. My DH has been doing this since Xmas and it has really worked for him so I'm joining in.

I'm SAHM with 6 month old, currently BF so am following the great advice here about combining BF with IF. Don't have a target weight in mind yet, just happy to start losing ANY weight after 2 pregnancies.

Feeling a bit light-head now but think that's probably normal. Just hard being at home with food cupboards to hand!

It's been great to read these threads and hear about others doing the same thing. Just hope I can stick to this.

annielewis · 24/03/2014 15:38

Ahhh crap I'm really struggling today, got sore throat and feeling sorry for myself so downgrading to a mini fast today. Have ended up staying around the house as not feeling great and temptation is proving too much.

No bother, mini fast today and continue with the week eating carefully/ not going crazy!

Interestingly weighed this morning and have only gained 2lb back since before Christmas. And that's not following the plan properly at ALL!! Was worried I might have piled the whole 10 lb back on!!

Hope everyone else having a good day...

Peplum41 · 24/03/2014 15:46

Hi ruthemma welcome to mn and the 5:2 thread. You're in good company, lots of mums, some still bf, its the less judgey pants corner of mn. I'm going to mention that you can have 1000 cals on your FD, just incase you or other bf mums reading this missed that part. Feeling a little light headed now and again is normal, I sit down with a brew for a few minutes, it soon passes.

megrim glad to cheer you up over what sounds like a miserable weekend. Nothing like a spot if humiliation to bring you down. Bit harsh considering you were volunteering, all be it involuntarily!

Get well wishes to mrsf, eats and esp poor reindeer. It took me ages to spell reindeer then, FD brain freeze.

doris, you are a walker like me, just stick to 5:2 and I'm sure something will happen. I know what you mean about the binges, I really do. You know its not real hunger, its something else. Hmm will think about that.

zed white carb twin here, I had one jam donut from lidl on Friday. I'm now wondering if that's why the rest of the weekend I ate so much I've wiped out last weeks deficit and some.

Oh my brain is really struggling to focus right now, time to leave... Catch up later.

Megrim · 24/03/2014 16:27

Hi peplum, it wasn't really such a miserable weekend, I was just a bit teed off at being treated like a naughty child. It was a swim meet, so ultimately we're all doing it so that the kids can compete and get entry times for Nationals. DS1 had good swims and a good social time, I had a better day on Sunday and I now have to invest in new white trousers as my old ones are starting to fall down (nice NSV!).

BetsyBell · 24/03/2014 16:28

Thanks everyone. Been waiting all day and now DS is in surgery. I'm sure it's all very straightforward but it's odd not being there with him.

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 24/03/2014 16:31

Welcome, Ruthemma You are among friends here, so post whenever you want advice, or just a natter.
Smile This is a really supportive thread

Eatriskier · 24/03/2014 16:32

Flowers betsy fingers crossed for you all

BigChocFrenzy · 24/03/2014 16:33

Betsy (({BIG chocolatey hugs}))
Flowers and remember to drink lots of Brew

CiderwithBuda · 24/03/2014 16:46

Thinking of you and DS Betsy. Not sure how old your DS is but I remember well the feeling of handing my DS off at 3 for surgery. He was fine of course. Are a huge bowl of cocoa pops when he came round! I was a wreck!

Octopus37 · 24/03/2014 17:05

Betsy hope your DS is ok. Hope fellow fasters are doing ok. I have just had some soup so far today 196 cals, about to have some more soup shortly, think that calorie count is 292 or something to will put me just within the range. Didn't find the first part of the day that hard as was so busy with work, didn't eat my soup until nearly 3pm but feeling a bit headachey and yuk now, o well will get there.

zedzedzed · 24/03/2014 17:10

Aaaaaargh...toddler and baby tea/snacks...why didn't I make something drenched in beans?? Buttery toast and marmite fingers (Vogel Soya and Linseed bread, AMAZING btw) and for pudding? Soreen fruit loaf, buttered in a bowl with strawberries, grapes and bananas??? I WANT IT ALL!

That's it, I'm breaking out the emergency diet coke.

COME ON PEOPLE! Only two hrs till dinner.

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