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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

The 5:2 thread number 41: Springing into March or marching into spring? Either way, more sunshine means easier fast days! Come and join us in getting healthier, the fast way.

999 replies

BetsyBell · 15/03/2014 11:04

The continuing thread for those of us following the 5:2 fast or other forms of fasting such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012 and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat normally - or approximately your Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE - see explanation below). 4:3 is the same except you fast on 3 days in the week. Alternate-day fasting (ADF) is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. 16:8 is another form where you stick to only eating in an 8 hour window each day, therefore fasting for 16 hours each day.

By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low; around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.

You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.

WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website or app many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a TDEE calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

NFD = Non fast day.

NSV/LSV = Non scale victory/Lifestyle (change) victory.

Michael Mosley has a website to accompany his book on the subject. Please go check it out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

Lurkers and new starters: please just jump in and post - you'll find a lot of support here and we’re a friendly bunch.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

Other Threads
All our previous threads can be found by browsing through the fasting section of the site.

Tips and Links : breadandwine’s resource for some of the tips and links that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

Inspirational: eatriskier’s thread has some lovely inspiring stories which are worth checking out if you want some motivation to get started or keep going through a plateau. Please add your own too.

Recipes: frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

Exercise: bigchocfrenzy has an incredibly informative and helpful exercise and fitness thread for discussion and advice on combining 5:2 with an exercise regime.

Maintaining: If you've been at this a while and are moving on to maintaining your goal weight, there is a thread here to discuss that.

Other links
This is a BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon - link to that programme here.

This Telegraph article comments on the diet and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley himself, very informative if you're just starting.

This blog post gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

This link nicely demonstrates that there are many ‘right’ body shapes and types, because what we are actually aiming for is low body fat for fitness and health.

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5lbs reduction in body weight and a 4cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant. It also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

If you’ve been researching IF you may have come across this article which is highly negative about women with BMI in the normal range. Here’s our response to that:

  • With a healthy BMI, those who want to be leaner will usually find weight and waist loss to be much slower than for overweight folk, since, less fat and inches are available to lose.
  • The women with healthy BMIs already had healthier blood sugar than the men in the study. Hence nothing really needed improving.
  • Women who have had health problems on IF were NOT doing 5:2, but the
much tougher ADF or 16:8, ^combined with heavy lifting (often multiples of body weight) AND were often starting from already ultra-low BF 12-16% range.^

-Many were already missing periods or had EDs before IF, due to the low BF %, over-training and over-stressing.

5:2 is a gentler form of IF than ADF or Leangains and there’s plenty of anecdotal evidence from longterm 5:2ers, now with healthy BMI, who are continuing to have very positive results and experiences on this WOE.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful.

A HUGE THANK YOU to Greeneggsandnicht for putting together all this info and resources into one concise OP text, much appreciated by so many 5:2ers!

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this way of life!

And lastly, a few FAQs/Healthy tips :

  • WATER: Start each day with a pint of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • Hot drinks: no limits on tea or coffee any day, just note any milk / sugar calories on FDs.
  • FDs: concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Old hands skip breakfast & save most cals for supper.
  • NFDs: no rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar, artificial sweeteners, fizzy drinks, junk food. A few treats per week are good though! Aim to average TDEE over NFDs each week, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • CLENCH for health: men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily.
  • Do NOT fast: if pregnant, under 21, have EDs, any illness, even a bad cold. When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So eat to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks.
  • Check with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate).
  • BREASTFEEDERS: start with 1000-cal FDs; optionally, reduce to 700 cals gradually. You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • SLEEP: everybody needs enough sleep, or weight loss may be slowed.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss if you you do NOT eat back exercise calories. Fasted training can burn more fat. HIIT works well with 5:2/IF.
OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
DorisAllTheDay · 23/03/2014 20:25

Well that blew the cobwebs away! I've had a lovely day on the hills - there were some blustery showers earlier in the day, but the last couple of hours were in unbroken sunshine with sparkly blue skies. I was a bit slower on the hills than when I was at peak fitness last summer, but I didn't feel I was struggling at all, so I'm very pleased with myself. I had quite a big dinner when I got in, putting me a whisker (50 calories or so) over TDEE - though that's without adding in any extra for exercise, so as long as I manage not to eat anything else before going to bed, I'm going to count it as a successful NFD. FD tomorrow.

Reindeer, are teachers no longer entitled to sick leave? I've come across the situation where people have had so much sick leave that their entitlement to pay effectively runs down and then runs out, but unless you're on some kind of zero hours-type contract, I don't understand how your contract can be ended. Or have things got so bad that teachers can't go off sick any more? I simply can't imagine how you or anyone else can teach when you're sick with tonsillitis. No good for you or for the children or the school, come to that. If you're in a union, what have they said?

Blondieminx · 23/03/2014 23:02

migraine stuff specially for MrsF

I have lost half a pound but better still, an inch from round my middle Smile. FD tomorrow, and also physio for the crap knee. So steady progress!

LakeFlyPie · 23/03/2014 23:21

Doris your walk sounds lovely. It was a beautiful sunny, but cold, afternoon here too but I suspect my walk was rather less bracing than yours as I was going at DC (5+3) pace.

Run and MrsF hope you're feeling better v soon.

I've come to the conclusion that I've had a weird headachey / nausea bug since my 1st FD which has made it a bit difficult to gauge how things are going. I found the FDs relatively easy considering what a snacker / overeater I usually am and I've had very little appetite on NFDs since.
Have come to the conclusion it's a bug not a miracle but may plan a mini fast tomorrow to take advantage of my lower than usual appetite Grin

Did tues and thurs as FDs last week but may go for weds / fri to coincide with work days this week.

Am feeling positive about this WOE suiting me long term Smile

Runlikeareindeer · 24/03/2014 06:19

We have an attendance policy. I had 4 separate illnesses since sept (although only 9 days) so I'm on stage 1. But I've been on stage one before last year, so at my last meeting they said if I was I'll within 3 months it would be to stage 2 and then probably stage 3 as I have a 'pattern' of stage one. Ie, I have periods of ill health when my immune system is shot (like after maternity leave).

So I was told anymore illness before this November had the high and serious liklihood of stage 3, which is moving towards ending contract with governors.

I've just been very unlucky and been ill a lot.

TwittyMcTwitterson · 24/03/2014 06:24

Hi everyone! I've not checked this thread for a while and haven't RTFT. Hope everyone's doing well!

I have my induction at the gym today Grin very scary. They're going to write me a program so I can be a skinny Minnie! Yay!

Blondieminx · 24/03/2014 06:24

Oh Run that sounds really harsh Sad if you haven't already then do start a thread in Employment - i have had great advice on there in the past especially from an HR specialist called flowery.

If they have a process surely it's wrong for them to decide to skip a stage of it?! Angry no wonder so many teachers are demoralised (that's a whole other thread though!)

Southeastdweller · 24/03/2014 07:07

Good luck today Doris and everyone else.

Hope all goes well with your son today Betsy.

DorisAllTheDay · 24/03/2014 08:18

(((( Reindeer )))) Your school management sound awful. I agree with Blondie that it seems strange to more or less skip stage 2. How are you feeling this morning? It's utterly horrible that to keep your job you have to get up off your sick bed. Sometimes I despair about the direction we're headed in. I thought workers' rights to paid sick leave had been established, but it seems that like so many other hard-won rights it's being eroded.

Evees, good luck at the gym. That sounds equally exciting and scary.

Lake, it sounds like things are going very well for you, though I hope you get over that bug soon.

Blondie well done on your SV and your inch loss. Great work!

Good luck other Monday fasters. At least the sun is shining.

Chocupid · 24/03/2014 08:30

doris glad to see you firmly back on the wagon Grin

evees good luck at the gym! I rejoined a new one last week and am enjoying it! You'll feel soo much better.

I'm in for a FD today after overeating over the weekend.

Good luck all who are in today, the sun is out which may make it easier.
Off to the gym myself now!

Overtiredmum · 24/03/2014 08:50

Morning all! It's Monday and bloody freezing after waiting 40 minutes for my commuter coach, I'm like a block of ice.

Had a fab weekend, after my third FD yesterday and 6 days in, I weighed in this morning and am down (drum roll.......) 5 and a half pounds Grin

I actually found a Sunday FD easier than when at work. Kids went to their dads for the afternoon and I kept busy washing and ironing. Didn't 't even struggle preparing Sunday morning fry-ups Smile

Time to catch up with the thread, this moves so quick! Hope everyone is ok.

OTM

IPokedABadgerWithASpoon · 24/03/2014 09:24

FD for me too! Monday seems a good day for it, positive psychological start to the week and whatnot! Already been productive sorting out breakfasts/hoovering/washing etc and got zumba later so hopefully will be ok today.
Glad its going well OTM great loss already so far!
And echoing OP, repost in employment for some proper advice and speak to a union? Sounds awfully harsh Sad

runningLou · 24/03/2014 09:26

FD today for me too! Bit of a carb-fest on Saturday, but I knew it would be as I was meeting a friend for lunch in London, then DH cooked us a lovely meal in the evening ...
Ran 12k yesterday morning which got rid of some of it.
Monday morning weigh-in is usually a nightmare for me as my usual pattern is to restrict in the week and then binge at weekends (started 5:2 last week in the hope of breaking that cycle). Anyway, this morning I weighed 3.5 lbs less than last Monday, so that's positive, though still 2 lbs more than on Friday ... really don't know how to stop this cycle of regaining lost weight over the weekend!!

CiderwithBuda · 24/03/2014 09:28

Morning all. Sending good health vibes to the poorly.

MrsF - my sis suffers terrible with migraines, I get them too as does DS but not as bad as her and you. Sympathies.

Well having been so good with my three FDs last week I undid it all over the weekend. Now weigh what i did last week. Why did I do that? Very annoyed with myself. White bread, crisps, chocolate digestives and wine. Both days. And I have cancelled my spinning class as I twisted my knee yesterday trying to avoid one of the dogs backing into me and knee is now swollen and achy.

So a definite FD today. And will try three again this week. Need to now!

MetellaEstMater · 24/03/2014 09:35

FD here too. Just dropped my three year old off at nursery and she had a total meltdown which usually sends me straight to the biscuit tin when I get in. Gym instead though and the baby's first crèche stint. Hoping she's more amenable to half an hour without me - good old HIIT!!

IPokedABadgerWithASpoon · 24/03/2014 10:05

Lou its for that reason I made Saturday morning my weigh-in time, I get to see my hard work of the week and it gives me a little motivation to be good throughout the weekend without depriving myself and getting miserable knowing I'll be weighing in on Monday morning, would that work for you?

Eatriskier · 24/03/2014 10:15

Morning all.

Heavy weekend means today will be an FD.

Too much been typed for me over this weekend so well done all SV and NSVs and get well soon all you poorly types (DCs have blessed me with another cold so I am joining the ranks of meh too).

RoundNRoundN · 24/03/2014 10:46

Hi, new to this thread and wondered if I could ask a quick question.

Usually I do a fast day from when I wake up until the next morning.

I was planning on doing this today.

However at 12.30 yesterday I had a huge roast. I was so full I didnt have dinner, so in the evening I just had a yoghurt.

Ive had nothing for breakfast today.

I was going to do a fast day today but I realised that by 12.30 today would be 24 hours of fasting done.

Can I do that? Or is that a big fat cheat and I should still only consume 500 calories by tomorrow morning?

runningLou · 24/03/2014 11:04

I think a fast effectively lasts 36 hours? So you'd have dinner at 7pm (say), on an NFD, then have an FD, then normal breakfast 7am the following day, so fasting for 36 total.

zedzedzed · 24/03/2014 11:09

So...I'm back from my Birthday Weekeend Splurge and am definitely on The fast train this morning (woo-woo, chugga chug etc...are you on today Doris?)

I was right to be nervous about splurging, it turns out I'm not mistaken and white carbs really are like poison to me, once I start I really have difficulty stopping and if I add something sugary to it (like white toast with jam) I'm instantly ravenous. I promised I wouldn't do MFP logging this weekend so I've just done a 'quick add' of 3000 cals to Fri/sat/Sun each. That may be an underestimate. Gulp.

So obviously I won't have lost this week, but as I did my two regular fast I shouldn't have gained either. I'm just relieved to be putting The Carb Monster back in his box as I felt really out of control again.

So, back to normal service today, protein, good fat, green veg and coloured carbs, within TDEE and 2x fasts p/wk.

So sorry mrs F I hope you're on the mend today, I get migraine's too, but not as vomitty as yours, linked to my hormones and much better as I get more senile...silver(haired)lining there. Um. Sorry. Thanks
Reindeer your bosses sound like total dicks...get yourself a vial of MRSA and release in the staff room, we won't judge you!

Off to catch up with rest of thread now...coffee number 5 coming up, baby has face plague (grass rash or eczema maybe) and has also decided to scream blue murder whenever I leave the room (love this phase, had forgotten they do that separation anxiety thing) but at least I haven't murdered The Cantankerous 98yr Old Un-please-able Granny (yet).

Chugga-chugga-chugga-chug...Buttermint, buttermint, buttermint TEA!!

zedzedzed · 24/03/2014 11:16

This made me giggle, you gotta love German meat humour...Grief Bacon! (sorry B&W and other veg/vegans, substitute a nice juicy oil-soaked aubergine)

The 5:2 thread number 41: Springing into March or marching into spring? Either way, more sunshine means easier fast days! Come and join us in getting healthier, the fast way.
RoundNRoundN · 24/03/2014 11:18

Thanks.

36 hours sounds fine.

But follow it by another FD?

That confuses me because on a NFD Id have breakfast, lunch and dinner.

Where as Id have only had dinner, then start a FD all over again?

ErrolTheDragon · 24/03/2014 11:29

Morning all - what a lovely one. Wish I could go out but we've got a painter needing windows opening. Maybe I'll have my lunchtime FD miso in the garden at least.

RoundNRound - some people do a total LOF fast from between say an early lunch one day to a late lunch the next day.

runningLou · 24/03/2014 11:35

36 hours would take you to 2:30am tomorrow morning so am guessing you won't eat then! So maybe do a slightly longer (40 ish) hour FD today, then NFD tomorrow?

CiderwithBuda · 24/03/2014 11:37

Can I as what LOF is please? Been meaning to ask that one!

Zed - that's what happened to me - the carb monster - and I didn't have your excuse of a birthday. I haven't dared MFP it all. Maybe I should.

Struggling big time today. That will be the carbs! Aargh. Today might end up a mini fast with a proper FD tomorrow.

DontBeBlueBeARainbow · 24/03/2014 11:50

Run MrsF hope you're both feeling better?

Zed I'm with you re the white carbs, bread generally, they set something off. Not brave enough to try no sugar at the minute tho..... Thanks also for the aubergine Grin

I've had a bad week and a bit, with a few good days, but a few too many uncontrolled days, too many treats and too many fingers in the peanut butter jar Blush I don't know if it's self-sabotage as I reached an all time low of 10st the week before last... but if I keep on like this I won't keep moving towards my target.

Off sick today with a bad throat and chesty cough and still aiming for my Monday FD. Drinking loads and staying in bed. It's easy to make an excuse being ill, but I'd really rather trying get through the FD and get back on track.

B&W can I ask do you use any forums or threads on here regarding veganism. I LOVE recipes blogs, etc but would love a bit more discussion sometimes, to keep the motivation up. I watched the link you posted a week or so back, it was really good, thanks.

Good luck Badger Lou Cider and all other Mon FDers