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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

The 5:2 thread number 41: Springing into March or marching into spring? Either way, more sunshine means easier fast days! Come and join us in getting healthier, the fast way.

999 replies

BetsyBell · 15/03/2014 11:04

The continuing thread for those of us following the 5:2 fast or other forms of fasting such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012 and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat normally - or approximately your Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE - see explanation below). 4:3 is the same except you fast on 3 days in the week. Alternate-day fasting (ADF) is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. 16:8 is another form where you stick to only eating in an 8 hour window each day, therefore fasting for 16 hours each day.

By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low; around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.

You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.

WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website or app many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a TDEE calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

NFD = Non fast day.

NSV/LSV = Non scale victory/Lifestyle (change) victory.

Michael Mosley has a website to accompany his book on the subject. Please go check it out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

Lurkers and new starters: please just jump in and post - you'll find a lot of support here and we’re a friendly bunch.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

Other Threads
All our previous threads can be found by browsing through the fasting section of the site.

Tips and Links : breadandwine’s resource for some of the tips and links that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

Inspirational: eatriskier’s thread has some lovely inspiring stories which are worth checking out if you want some motivation to get started or keep going through a plateau. Please add your own too.

Recipes: frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

Exercise: bigchocfrenzy has an incredibly informative and helpful exercise and fitness thread for discussion and advice on combining 5:2 with an exercise regime.

Maintaining: If you've been at this a while and are moving on to maintaining your goal weight, there is a thread here to discuss that.

Other links
This is a BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon - link to that programme here.

This Telegraph article comments on the diet and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley himself, very informative if you're just starting.

This blog post gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

This link nicely demonstrates that there are many ‘right’ body shapes and types, because what we are actually aiming for is low body fat for fitness and health.

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5lbs reduction in body weight and a 4cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant. It also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

If you’ve been researching IF you may have come across this article which is highly negative about women with BMI in the normal range. Here’s our response to that:

  • With a healthy BMI, those who want to be leaner will usually find weight and waist loss to be much slower than for overweight folk, since, less fat and inches are available to lose.
  • The women with healthy BMIs already had healthier blood sugar than the men in the study. Hence nothing really needed improving.
  • Women who have had health problems on IF were NOT doing 5:2, but the
much tougher ADF or 16:8, ^combined with heavy lifting (often multiples of body weight) AND were often starting from already ultra-low BF 12-16% range.^

-Many were already missing periods or had EDs before IF, due to the low BF %, over-training and over-stressing.

5:2 is a gentler form of IF than ADF or Leangains and there’s plenty of anecdotal evidence from longterm 5:2ers, now with healthy BMI, who are continuing to have very positive results and experiences on this WOE.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful.

A HUGE THANK YOU to Greeneggsandnicht for putting together all this info and resources into one concise OP text, much appreciated by so many 5:2ers!

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this way of life!

And lastly, a few FAQs/Healthy tips :

  • WATER: Start each day with a pint of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • Hot drinks: no limits on tea or coffee any day, just note any milk / sugar calories on FDs.
  • FDs: concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Old hands skip breakfast & save most cals for supper.
  • NFDs: no rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar, artificial sweeteners, fizzy drinks, junk food. A few treats per week are good though! Aim to average TDEE over NFDs each week, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • CLENCH for health: men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily.
  • Do NOT fast: if pregnant, under 21, have EDs, any illness, even a bad cold. When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So eat to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks.
  • Check with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate).
  • BREASTFEEDERS: start with 1000-cal FDs; optionally, reduce to 700 cals gradually. You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • SLEEP: everybody needs enough sleep, or weight loss may be slowed.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss if you you do NOT eat back exercise calories. Fasted training can burn more fat. HIIT works well with 5:2/IF.
OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
BigChocFrenzy · 22/03/2014 21:08

Reindeer Sorry to hear that. Do take care of yourself Brew
and stay in bed if you can.

Runlikeareindeer · 22/03/2014 21:46

Not much chance unfortunately. Dh is going to run my number as I have been sponsored for it.

So I have to take the kids. We have friends going too, so won't be too bad. Wish I could have a day in bed. I have to go to school on Monday, otherwise I really will be in for the chop. Dunno how I'm going to teach though, I can barely manage taking now!

MrsFlorrick · 22/03/2014 22:46

Evening.
Sorry to hear about the tonsilitis Run. Brew For you.

Impromptu mini fast.

Woke up with headache. Within 30mins of getting up, massive migraine and vomiting. Pain was excruciating. So spent day in bed vomiting and sleeping. Mainly eating painkillers, sumatriptan, anti emetics etc. ugh.

Heads still sore. Off to sleep.

Megrim · 23/03/2014 00:23

Peplum you've right cheered me up with your gnomes and their beard stroking - was having a bit of a rubbish day, having spent 6 hours volunteering at a sports event being overseen by really quite unpleasant people. Have to do it again tomorrow, but have promised myself I will have a full on flounce if they start making the same snide comments again. And I might accidentally knock a certain someone into the pool on my way out. Mwah hah hah hah.

Doris you can still get PLJ, a dash of the lime version is actually quite nice in fizzy water.

MetellaEstMater · 23/03/2014 03:03

Get well soon Reindeer & MrsF Thanks

MetellaEstMater · 23/03/2014 03:08

Megrim, hope today's better...remarkable though how slippery pool sides are, just one small misstep...

Not2bObvious · 23/03/2014 08:08

Poor Run, I used to suffer dreadfully with tonsillitis through my childhood and teens, not so much now but I get twinges from time to time and I shudder at the thoughts. Bizarre food that used to give me some relief was salt & vinegar crisps! I'd kid of suck them? I could never manage gargling salt & water so that was my version. Washed down by hot black tea- odd, but effective for me. Feel better soon and the minute you can take to your bed, do, rest is required for recovery.
MrsF having suffered from hangover migraine I feel so sorry for you suffering with the real deal, fingers crossed it'll lift fully soon.
Dotty where I am we have a charity thing going which is a big money raiser for 3rd world etc. Thanks for reminding me about money not spent on choccie/wine/crisps. I make a donation at the end of lent but I think I'll pop a few quid in the box each week, remind myself of how much I spent in junk/drink each week. I've that many clothes waiting to fit, sure it'll be like a new wardrobe if I drop half a stoneWink
I have to get dh to hide the scales today and also make myself take my measurements, I keep forgetting. My proposed FD yesterday ended up as a mini fast, around the 10001100 cals, best I've ever done in a Saturday. Enough room to enjoy but also another little step towards my goal. Think I'll do another 4:3 next week, with 1 of the 3 as a mini fast. I like having a planGrin

PrimalLass · 23/03/2014 08:21

Ooh Helliecopter, I had that biryani the other days and it was lovely. I think they have sneaked flour in there for some reason though, as my tummy was very sore afterwards Sad

Off to do a 10-mile Moonwalk training jaunt this morning.

PrimalLass · 23/03/2014 08:24

Oh, Run - nightmare re the tonsillitis. I had it before Christmas and have never felt so ill. I would rather have another c section than ever have tonsillitis again. Please try to take it easy. Erythromycin sorted me out.

IPokedABadgerWithASpoon · 23/03/2014 09:02

Sorry to those not feeling well this morning Thanks

Yesterday was a mixed bag -I hit the '2stone lost' mark and also the tuck shop at work! Means I went over my tdee by about 1000 calories Sad Don't know what was wrong, just had one sweet and then lost all self control, had a twix and a creme egg and all sorts, feel terrible this morning though! Better day today hopefully, might do a mini fast just to try and get things back under control a bit

BetsyBell · 23/03/2014 09:10

Reindeer and MrsF Flowers and hugs for you both. I have never felt so ill as when I had tonsillitis for the first time last year. Horrific. I hope you don't have it too badly.

OP posts:
DorisAllTheDay · 23/03/2014 09:49

(((( MrsF and Reindeer )))). Sorry to hear you're feeling poorly and I hope today is better. Reindeer, I can't believe your school would expect you to go in and teach when you can't even speak. Surely not? I know the pressure on teachers has got a lot worse in recent years, but surely you're not expected to teach classes when you should be in bed? What on earth is going on??

Megrim, I can offer my DDs to teach you how to do a tip-top flounce. They used to have it down to a fine art. I never used to have to watch telly to get a fix of drama, I had it all going on in the house. Sigh. I never thought I'd miss it, but I do. Confused Still, I hope you manage to do whatever needs to be done, whether it's grown-up assertiveness or the odd 'accidental' slip into the pool.

Badger, as everyone's been saying to me, one day at a time. Yesterday happened, today can be better. Good luck with your mini-fast.

I had a successful NFD yesterday, about 200 calories under TDEE. Today I'm off hill-walking, my first all-day walk since the Christmas holidays. I really don't have an excuse not to walk as I love it and there is a lot of gorgeous countryside just a short bus-ride away, but I keep not getting round to it. Anyway, today I've planned a route of about 10 miles and 1100 feet of ascent, which is less than I was doing back in the summer, but I think it's enough given that I haven't been on the hills for some time. There's an extra loop I can do which will add about half a mile and 250 feet, I'll see how I go. I've booked a hill-walking holiday at Easter and I've just realised how soon that is, so I need to get some practice to be able to enjoy it properly.

EagleRay · 23/03/2014 09:56

Sorry you have tonsillitis Reindeer - it's the pits. Make sure you get as much rest as you can. And hope you feel better soon too MrsF - do you get migraines normally? I've heard there's a horrible virus going around which gives you headaches.

Was supposed to be training this morning but have cancelled as I've got a cold. Feeling mostly fine but I'm a bit wary of overdoing things as life is full-on as it is with work/baby/being on my own most of the week.

The research around the 3 gnomes is fascinating - I've always struggled with weight and around 5 years ago (coinciding with pituitary tumour appearing) my weight has accelerated quite a bit. I never felt like I was overeating as always felt hungry, so felt justified in eating! It was as if my brain was asking for food, despite there being plenty of reserves knocking around to use up.

Yesterday was a NFD, and pretty interesting food-wise. We went out for a 2 hour walk before breakfast and put DD in the bike trailer set up as a stroller so that we could do a bit of running too although I didn't in the end due to sniffly cold. Then late breakfast when we got home, a tiny lunch mid-afternoon then went out for a Thai meal last night. I was stuffed to bursting and felt like I'd overeaten, although on reflection it was just a couple of spring rolls, a salad and a veg curry!

Today I have 2 new NSVs - trousers are almost too loose to wear for the first time! Have got an identical pair in a smaller size so tried them on - can get them done up but they're still too tight - pleased to be able to get them on for the first time though.

And I've got what looks like a six-pack emerging! My tummy is now divided into 6 sections, and although the sections are decorated with some bits of ET-like skin, there is definitely some signs of muscle there...

Not2b that sounds like a fab 40th birthday present to yourself! I had my 40th a couple of years ago and felt a bit self conscious because of my weight. I had a party with family and friends and will never forget my DM poking fun at my size in front of everyone, and almost in the same breath complementing my sister who has an eating disorder on her slim figure.

EagleRay · 23/03/2014 10:01

Thought I would post my weight chart that I've knocked up on a spreadsheet. I haven't weighed myself every day so on some days the previous day's weight has been carried forward. It's interesting seeing all the fluctuations yet after 4/5 weeks, I've met the target!

Can you see the bit where the monthly hormones kicked in? Smile

The 5:2 thread number 41: Springing into March or marching into spring? Either way, more sunshine means easier fast days! Come and join us in getting healthier, the fast way.
Megrim · 23/03/2014 10:30

Thanks to everyone not feeling well today - hope you're all on the mend.

Doris have a fab walk - if the suns out you'll feel great.

Re flouncing - I'm probably being over-sensitive, but I'm a bit pissed off that we're forced to "volunteer" (or get fined) and a slight lapse in concentration after an hour and a half (I glanced the wrong way) coupled with a faulty walkie-talkie means that my mistake is doggedly pointed to 50 people and I'm made to feel about 5 years old.

Eagle that's a great graph Smile

Runlikeareindeer · 23/03/2014 10:51

I'm on attendance report because of illness last term (labrynthitis). I had a sickness bug last tyes/weds, so missing anymore work would mean that they would move to end my contract :(

MrsFlorrick · 23/03/2014 10:53

Morning everyone.
Finally better. Feel weak and wobbly from the many drugs yesterday.

Eagle. Yes I get migraines regularly. It's very very annoying inconvenient not to mention painful.

I have a nice range to drugs at home to help. Yesterday was a bad one. I worked my way through the initial three drug stage and it didn't help at all.

The anti sickness tablets I have are a new fangled one which is supposed to be all singing and dancing and I spent 4 hours vomiting right through them. Hmm
DH had to phone out of hour in order for me to take the next level of drugs. They are very heavy duty and generally shouldn't be taken with one of the three drugs I took first. Not unless you've spoken to a doctors first (stroke risk is high. Nice).

So that was ok'd and I took that and slept a lot with the odd vomit. Confused

So back to GP tomorrow to get a different anti sickness prescribed as my new special one is utterly useless.
Also going to ask for a different painkiller. What I currently have is no stronger than an OTC one and that doesn't help. You can't cure it with triptram drugs alone. You need the triple to work. Ie triptram type drug, anti sickness and painkiller.

Because the more you vomit, the more pain you have and the more pain you have, the more you vomit. Hmm

Run. I hate tonsilitis. About 20 years ago I suffered repeated episodes. Agony.

Everyone else. Some amazing NSV here. Great to see. And so many new folk doing so well here. Excellent.

I won't fast today or tomorrow. Need to clear the head first.

Off to sip tea and nibble on toast.

MrsFlorrick · 23/03/2014 10:55

((((Run)))) just seen your post. Yikes.

Anyway you can prop yourself up with meds and still go to work?

MrsFlorrick · 23/03/2014 11:00

Bigchoc. After your science bit, I did a bit of googling and read up on the hormonal side of being fat. And how you continue to be affected after weightloss.

Very interesting. Thanks Bigchoc. Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 23/03/2014 11:08

Flowers to Run, MrsF. Sorry you are both having such a tough time.

2 great NSVs, EagleRay . A special hooray for the 6-pack peeking through.
Your DM was totally out of order. Embarrassing you on your 40th
Hmm
Well done on your good Saturday, Doris . Your hill-walking sounds lovely.

Badger You are not alone with Saturday greed.
I allow a Saturday gorge, to chill and to keep up TDEE, but 7 plates of food over 16 hrs plus 50g organic white choc with blueberries ..... FFS !

I never waste time on Blush over the past. I just made today an FD

BigChocFrenzy · 23/03/2014 11:29

At 57, I see a massive change in how much tougher life has become for those not born well-off
Sad
Oppressive and bullying employers

  • Megrim : Fining if you don't "volunteer". That's forced unpaid extra work.
Shock
  • Run : Forced to work while ill or risk losing your job due to genuine illness
Shock
  • Zero hrs contracts, unlaid internship all didn't exist when I started work
  • Crap company pensions. Ours joined in slashing pension, but at least I had already accumulated a decent pot.

Also, my uni fees and grant for living expenses were free, no student debt or part-time jobs for my BSc, Msc and PhD.
So I could have a good career even though I grew up poor.
btw: few jobs then asked for a degree anyway
Angry So cruel & bloody unfair now

BigChocFrenzy · 23/03/2014 11:33

Oh and my firm expects us to stay home if unwell.
No risk of losing job even with long or repeated illnesses

Octopus37 · 23/03/2014 16:38

Hope all those of you who are feeling unwell are feeling better today. Had a weigh in today, have lost 0.2kg this week so not much. However have not had a good week eating wise, aside from my fast days and have come to the conclusion that as I am only trying to lose a small amount of weight, slowly but surely is ok even if it means very slowly. This way at least I feel as if I am doing something to control my weight. Next FD is tomorrow.

TalkinPeace · 23/03/2014 18:26

Bigchoc
the shittiness of modern employment is why I'm so pleased DH and I are free range and we are pushing our (luckily very bright) kids towards high option/status degrees

Runlikeareindeer · 23/03/2014 19:16

TelL them not to go into teaching! I have a good degree from an very good university!