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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

The 5:2 thread number 41: Springing into March or marching into spring? Either way, more sunshine means easier fast days! Come and join us in getting healthier, the fast way.

999 replies

BetsyBell · 15/03/2014 11:04

The continuing thread for those of us following the 5:2 fast or other forms of fasting such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012 and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat normally - or approximately your Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE - see explanation below). 4:3 is the same except you fast on 3 days in the week. Alternate-day fasting (ADF) is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. 16:8 is another form where you stick to only eating in an 8 hour window each day, therefore fasting for 16 hours each day.

By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low; around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.

You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.

WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website or app many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a TDEE calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

NFD = Non fast day.

NSV/LSV = Non scale victory/Lifestyle (change) victory.

Michael Mosley has a website to accompany his book on the subject. Please go check it out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

Lurkers and new starters: please just jump in and post - you'll find a lot of support here and we’re a friendly bunch.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

Other Threads
All our previous threads can be found by browsing through the fasting section of the site.

Tips and Links : breadandwine’s resource for some of the tips and links that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

Inspirational: eatriskier’s thread has some lovely inspiring stories which are worth checking out if you want some motivation to get started or keep going through a plateau. Please add your own too.

Recipes: frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

Exercise: bigchocfrenzy has an incredibly informative and helpful exercise and fitness thread for discussion and advice on combining 5:2 with an exercise regime.

Maintaining: If you've been at this a while and are moving on to maintaining your goal weight, there is a thread here to discuss that.

Other links
This is a BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon - link to that programme here.

This Telegraph article comments on the diet and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley himself, very informative if you're just starting.

This blog post gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

This link nicely demonstrates that there are many ‘right’ body shapes and types, because what we are actually aiming for is low body fat for fitness and health.

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5lbs reduction in body weight and a 4cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant. It also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

If you’ve been researching IF you may have come across this article which is highly negative about women with BMI in the normal range. Here’s our response to that:

  • With a healthy BMI, those who want to be leaner will usually find weight and waist loss to be much slower than for overweight folk, since, less fat and inches are available to lose.
  • The women with healthy BMIs already had healthier blood sugar than the men in the study. Hence nothing really needed improving.
  • Women who have had health problems on IF were NOT doing 5:2, but the
much tougher ADF or 16:8, ^combined with heavy lifting (often multiples of body weight) AND were often starting from already ultra-low BF 12-16% range.^

-Many were already missing periods or had EDs before IF, due to the low BF %, over-training and over-stressing.

5:2 is a gentler form of IF than ADF or Leangains and there’s plenty of anecdotal evidence from longterm 5:2ers, now with healthy BMI, who are continuing to have very positive results and experiences on this WOE.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful.

A HUGE THANK YOU to Greeneggsandnicht for putting together all this info and resources into one concise OP text, much appreciated by so many 5:2ers!

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this way of life!

And lastly, a few FAQs/Healthy tips :

  • WATER: Start each day with a pint of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • Hot drinks: no limits on tea or coffee any day, just note any milk / sugar calories on FDs.
  • FDs: concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Old hands skip breakfast & save most cals for supper.
  • NFDs: no rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar, artificial sweeteners, fizzy drinks, junk food. A few treats per week are good though! Aim to average TDEE over NFDs each week, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • CLENCH for health: men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily.
  • Do NOT fast: if pregnant, under 21, have EDs, any illness, even a bad cold. When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So eat to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks.
  • Check with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate).
  • BREASTFEEDERS: start with 1000-cal FDs; optionally, reduce to 700 cals gradually. You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • SLEEP: everybody needs enough sleep, or weight loss may be slowed.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss if you you do NOT eat back exercise calories. Fasted training can burn more fat. HIIT works well with 5:2/IF.
OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
Miffytastic · 21/03/2014 07:05

Ooh! Ooh! Just weighed and I'm a whisker under 11 stone. How nice to see the 10s! Thank goodness for that.... Onward...about a stone to go for me I think...

MetellaEstMater · 21/03/2014 07:19

Happy unbirthday zed!

I've just had my 35th birthday. As my (just a year) younger DH reminds me it now means I round up to 40. I'm fairly relaxed about that. I have two beautiful daughters, a strong marriage, a nice home here in London and a successful career. I'm much more content than I was at 25 and very grateful for my lot in life. My parents' birthdays scare me more. They're certainly not old but my dad on particular doesn't look after himself as well as he should and is dangerously overweight. I wish I could encourage him to this way of life. I'm hoping I can inspire. I will also be mentioning a certain gentleman from our MN band of 5:2ers as a perfect example!

Relatively successful FD yesterday. Harder than it should have been as we decided to abandon our holiday due to horrendous rain and drive home last night. This meant service station 'dinner'. Still kept below my 1000 (breastfeeding) cals but definitely wasted 130 odd calories on ONE Costa coffee stem ginger biscuit. Stupidly eaten before checking in MFP!! Ah well, being home early means I can go to a HIIT session at the gym this morning before we have a day out somewhere to make up for curtailed holiday.

MetellaEstMater · 21/03/2014 07:21

Congratulations miffy. Sounds like you have the sMe goal weight as me. Sadly I'm still at the wrong end of the 12 stone bracket Sad

IPokedABadgerWithASpoon · 21/03/2014 07:21

Another bloody early start! And I'm bleeding again, by tomorrow it'll have been 4 weeks out of 6, its just so draining...
Sorry for the pity party, just feeling knackered and sorry for myself this morning! And the landlady is sending someone round to value the place so I have to keep running round after the kids tidying before they make a huge mess and knock 10k off for her! And its a FD. How's everyone else doing?

Miffytastic · 21/03/2014 07:33

badger not surprised you're knackered :(
I rent too and dread the day we have to move out or be part of their house sale activities.

zedzedzed · 21/03/2014 07:35

Morning all.
Day off today, first one since Jan 6th and starting this woe.

I intend to just stick 'quick add calories' of 3000 into MFP and forget about numbers till tomorrow...or maybe even Sunday.

But I feel strangely nervous, like an alcoholic saying they can have 3 glasses of wine today but not finish the bottle or have another bottle the next day and every day thereafter!

As long as I promise to log on both here and on MFP by Sunday it should be a very short calorie freefall

If you don't hear from me by then, send out The fat Police to bring me home for my Monday fast.

Buttery marmite white toast x2 for brekkie...oh yes...byeeeeeeeee

DorisAllTheDay · 21/03/2014 07:36

Sorry to hear about your health, Badger, and with the valuation visit as well that sounds absolutely knackering. I can't remember how old your kids are? Will you be able to get a break from them when they're at school/nursery, or are they younger than that? I've missed the posts about your bleeding but it doesn't sound good. Are you getting the right medical care?

Happy birthday, Zed - have some more Thanks and I hope today's birthdaying is more successful than yesterday's.

NFD today and I'm low-carbing since carbs unleash the monster. I've planned out my eating for the next few days as BigChoc suggested. I have to do a food shop this evening after work. Danger zone! So I've written a shopping list and all around the edge are messages to keep me on track as I tread the aisles - 'You can keep the monster at bay' 'Choose life not junk' 'A second on the lips a lifetime on the hips' and the like.

I took the plunge and did a waist measurement today. This is a much bigger deal for me than the number on the scales because I hold all my excess around my middle, the most dangerous place. At 5' 3" I need a waist measurement of 31' or less for health. It's just short of 34' this morning. So my goal is 31' by the summer. Does that sound realistic? When I translate it into stones and pounds, I think I get to 31' at about 9 stone 7-ish, so that means losing about a stone of 'real weight' (plus a few pounds of bloat). Hopefully I can do that in four months.

plecofjustice · 21/03/2014 08:01

Put on a sodding kilo between last week and this! Had been eating really well too. :(

MazzleDazzle · 21/03/2014 08:03

After maintaining for three weeks, today I lost.....

4 lb! How did that happen?

The scales god must have been listening!

Yeeeeeha! Woooohoo! Only another pound until I've lost 2 stone. Haven't been this weight since before the birth of DD2. My 'thin' trousers that wouldn't go past my knees 4 months ago are now too loose and even with a belt they sag at the bum.

NFD here, but won't eat anything until after my morning workout.

Well done Miffy! It feels good to finally see a glimpse of the next milestone doesn't it?

And zed, happy feasting! I've had a few weekends 'off' before and strangely wasn't able to eat as much as before no matter how hard I tried!

Your day sounds tough IPoked. What are the docs saying about this bleeding? I sometimes have pretty long periods (though not as long as yours!) and they put me on the pill to regulate the bleeding. So now I have an implant and the pill! Hormones galore Angry. 4 weeks is a very long time and topped off with your home getting sold Thanks.

IPokedABadgerWithASpoon · 21/03/2014 08:09

Thanks everyone Grin
Kids are 3 and 9 months so no school and neither at nursery yet, they're both with me all day til 4pm-ish when dp will come home, we'll all have a quick dinner and then I'll head to work until about 10pm
I'm under consultant care (since pregnancy with DS1, had as cyst on my ovary that grew, then bled/twisted so I had to have it removed with ovary and fallopian tube when I was 19 weeks pregnant with him) and now I've got one on the remaining ovary that they think is causing the bleeding so I have to go discuss a second operation with her next week.

I'm concerned about the landlady wanting to sell too or put the rent up, maybe I should let the kids make more a mess!

Well done Miffy that's a great loss!

IPokedABadgerWithASpoon · 21/03/2014 08:11

Mazzle that's great!

Doris that list sounds such as good idea! I do mine online straight after standing on the scales so it motivates me not add junk to my basket!

zedzedzed · 21/03/2014 08:12

Excellent shopping plan doris

Your inch loss hope sounds really feasible to me, but I'm not very experienced with 5:2 and you're closer to goal than me so things may move more slowly.

The only thing I'd say, and this may just be me, I find having a definite time goal can panic me and set me up for self-sabotage and failure. As the time draws closer I start to get anxious, or starve myself, setting up binge danger, or I bury my head in the sand and try to stop time with the power of denial/chips then more chips when the designated time approaches and, inevitably, I've 'failed' to meet my goal.

I do much better with vaguer goals...like I'd love to be in my size 14 jeans in time for colder weather again...I won't feel pressure if I'm not, and I won't weigh until I'm sure there'll be an encouragingly large loss.

But I know some people like to keep a firm goal and weigh daily to stay on track, I guess it just depends what type you are.

Fingers crossed for a smooth NFD shop for you.

BreakOutTheKaraoke · 21/03/2014 08:16

Morning everyone! Decided to go for it yesterday, so 2 fast days consecutively means I'm free for the weekend! Got beef in red wine with sweet potato mash for lunch today at work, and Ive just had white bread toast for breakfast. Living life to the full! Managing to resist the temptation to a sausage sandwich, I get off the bus for work literally next to Gregg's, with all its pastry goodness smells wafting.

Today the scales showed 10.11, think I'm going to make friday my weighing in day to keep track, after 2 fasts.

Overtiredmum · 21/03/2014 08:34

Well done Mazzle that's great! How long has it taken to lose that 2 stone?

Completed my second successful FD yesterday and I felt great. I had a mug of bovril lunchtime and treated myself to a 6 cal pot of sugar free jelly which was just enough to give me a sweet "hit"!

Then a chicken stir fry last night and enough calories left over for a few strawberries and a small Gin and slimline Grin

I wore a pair of jeans at the weekend and I felt soooo uncomfortable, same jeans today - definite improvement, considering third day of my period I'm surprised I can even do them up, let alone feel comfortable in them! Really pleased!

NFD for me today, not sure what's on the menu yet for me, but I am treating myself to a chicken shish kebab tonight which I can get delivered whilst I wait for MrSainsburys to deliver my shopping. I was amazed to find out a large kebab with salad, pitta, no sauce - 415 calories?! Yay! Happy days!

Hectic weekend ahead. DD at a party tomorrow so me and DS will sit in the corner and read our kindles Grin then catching up with my old neighbours for a couple of hours, then home for a takeaway "date" Wink

Am 40 in June, dd birthday may and DS end June so I've booked us a weekend to legoland beginning of June, kids were so excited when I told them last night!

ErrolTheDragon · 21/03/2014 09:11

Well done SVs Miffy and Mazzle!

Well done Doris! Back on the wagon and now you've got yourself a routemap.

Zed - enjoy your celebratory weekend to the full! I'm finding it delightful to be able to feast without guilt (this is good food and company, not junk bingeing in private!) knowing that I'll be having a couple of fast days soon.

zedzedzed · 21/03/2014 09:15

MAZZLE Woooooooooohoooooo!

Well done, God you were persistent waiting for those bloomin scales to be kind, well done to you! Enjoy your day of loss-basking!

DorisAllTheDay · 21/03/2014 09:38

Mazzle, that's fantastic news. Whoop whoop! Both the SV and your trouser victory. Have some Thanks. And Miffy as well, it's lovely to get to the next stone down, isn't it? Piecofjustice are there other measurements you can take? Sometimes the numbers on the scale just don't go down in a linear way, but you still might be losing inches (or centimeters) where they count. SVs are great, but they can be unpredictable, as Mazzle has pointed out - they can be like buses, you go several weeks without one, then four happen at once! Karaoke, that's impressive, two consecutive FDs. Well done, and enjoy your well-earned NFDs. And great clothes victory OvertiredMum. Did I read right that you've sourced pots of jelly at 6 calories? Really? Where do you get them from?

Zed you might be right about not time-limiting myself too much. I'll give it some thought.

Oh, and I've safely made it into work without stopping off for any junk. That's the first of the day's hurdles negotiated. Smile Good luck anyone fasting today.

thinkcan · 21/03/2014 09:44

Have not posted in ages but thought I'd jump in to say that at 58, I am fitter and stronger than I was in my 40's. Lost 10 lbs last year to hit a low of 8st 5 with 5:2 but gained back half the weight in Jan and Feb while traveling. Am now working hard to lose the "holiday fun weight" gain - 5 days/week weights sessions at the gym with alternating days of upper and lower body workouts plus 2 or 3 weekly bike rides up and down hilly terrain. At 5' 1" and 58, I feel that it is such an uphill battle to lose the "senior spread" but at least with this WOE, I feel it is doable. Also, the biking and weight sessions have helped me tremendously with knee issues. Three years ago, I had problems climbing up and down stairs without holding to the railings. Now I have to remind myself not to run up and down the house spiral staircase too quickly as I tore a meniscus about 10 years taking a corner too quickly while brisk walking.

Miffytastic · 21/03/2014 09:49

Yay Mazzle well done! Proving that it's worth hanging in there :)

Overtiredmum · 21/03/2014 11:02

Hi, they are Hartleys sugar free, but half the size of the 10 calorie pots. I found them in Tesco, think they were about 35p? But just big enough to help with a sweet craving. I'm going back for more today, just in case Grin

PrimalLass · 21/03/2014 11:13

After maintaining for three weeks, today I lost..... 4 lb! How did that happen?

Fabulous, well done. Any tips? I came on here today to look for tips to break a plateau (less wine for me, I think).

Thank goodness the tape measure is still giving me good news because the scales are not.

BigChocFrenzy · 21/03/2014 11:41

Congrats on the SVs, Mazzle, Miffy

Well done for avoiding the junk-traps this morning, Doris.
Yes, she's back !

PrimalLass With plateaux, you just have to persist, as Mazzle showed.

A few Plateau-busting tricks:

  • Short bursts of very intense HIIT, ideally add an 8-min Tabata twice a week (longer periods of lower intensity usually don't work as well)
  • Do 16:8 on your NFDs and check intake in mfp. Don't lower your intake, if it is ok, just limit eating duration.
  • Do 1-2 weeks without any alcohol, added sugar, junk (but from your name, you probably eat clean already)
  • For 2 weeks, add an extra FD or mini-FD . The contrast is better than lowering cals on NFDs
MetellaEstMater · 21/03/2014 11:45

Congratulations on all of the SVs! Thanks and first class junk avoidance Doris!

I weigh in on a Friday and have lost 1kg this week. Very pleased given we were away.

PrimalLass · 21/03/2014 12:05

Thanks BigChocFrenzy. I have been 4:3ing anyway ...

My name is a bit out of date Blush. I could do with being a lot better on that front.

ErrolTheDragon · 21/03/2014 13:16

My weekly weighing showed a slight gain from last week - not too surprised because of having a visitor and then DHs birthday. But I just did my measurements - all down since the start of the year except for calves (which are quite muscular and not too fatty anyway I think). I carry fat mostly on lower torso and upper part of limbs

Thanks for the post, thinkcan - I'm same height, a bit heavier and on a similar quest to stay fitter and stronger than in my 40s.

Jelly lovers - You can buy sachets of Robertsons sugar-free jelly powder (I might just go and make some now) - so you can make them whatever size you want, or add fruit to some if you like - can't remember price but must work out cheaper than buying pots and less packaging. Probably works best if there are other jelly-eaters in your house.