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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

The 5:2 thread number 41: Springing into March or marching into spring? Either way, more sunshine means easier fast days! Come and join us in getting healthier, the fast way.

999 replies

BetsyBell · 15/03/2014 11:04

The continuing thread for those of us following the 5:2 fast or other forms of fasting such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012 and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat normally - or approximately your Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE - see explanation below). 4:3 is the same except you fast on 3 days in the week. Alternate-day fasting (ADF) is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. 16:8 is another form where you stick to only eating in an 8 hour window each day, therefore fasting for 16 hours each day.

By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low; around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.

You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.

WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website or app many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a TDEE calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

NFD = Non fast day.

NSV/LSV = Non scale victory/Lifestyle (change) victory.

Michael Mosley has a website to accompany his book on the subject. Please go check it out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

Lurkers and new starters: please just jump in and post - you'll find a lot of support here and we’re a friendly bunch.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

Other Threads
All our previous threads can be found by browsing through the fasting section of the site.

Tips and Links : breadandwine’s resource for some of the tips and links that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

Inspirational: eatriskier’s thread has some lovely inspiring stories which are worth checking out if you want some motivation to get started or keep going through a plateau. Please add your own too.

Recipes: frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

Exercise: bigchocfrenzy has an incredibly informative and helpful exercise and fitness thread for discussion and advice on combining 5:2 with an exercise regime.

Maintaining: If you've been at this a while and are moving on to maintaining your goal weight, there is a thread here to discuss that.

Other links
This is a BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon - link to that programme here.

This Telegraph article comments on the diet and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley himself, very informative if you're just starting.

This blog post gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

This link nicely demonstrates that there are many ‘right’ body shapes and types, because what we are actually aiming for is low body fat for fitness and health.

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5lbs reduction in body weight and a 4cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant. It also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

If you’ve been researching IF you may have come across this article which is highly negative about women with BMI in the normal range. Here’s our response to that:

  • With a healthy BMI, those who want to be leaner will usually find weight and waist loss to be much slower than for overweight folk, since, less fat and inches are available to lose.
  • The women with healthy BMIs already had healthier blood sugar than the men in the study. Hence nothing really needed improving.
  • Women who have had health problems on IF were NOT doing 5:2, but the
much tougher ADF or 16:8, ^combined with heavy lifting (often multiples of body weight) AND were often starting from already ultra-low BF 12-16% range.^

-Many were already missing periods or had EDs before IF, due to the low BF %, over-training and over-stressing.

5:2 is a gentler form of IF than ADF or Leangains and there’s plenty of anecdotal evidence from longterm 5:2ers, now with healthy BMI, who are continuing to have very positive results and experiences on this WOE.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful.

A HUGE THANK YOU to Greeneggsandnicht for putting together all this info and resources into one concise OP text, much appreciated by so many 5:2ers!

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this way of life!

And lastly, a few FAQs/Healthy tips :

  • WATER: Start each day with a pint of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • Hot drinks: no limits on tea or coffee any day, just note any milk / sugar calories on FDs.
  • FDs: concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Old hands skip breakfast & save most cals for supper.
  • NFDs: no rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar, artificial sweeteners, fizzy drinks, junk food. A few treats per week are good though! Aim to average TDEE over NFDs each week, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • CLENCH for health: men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily.
  • Do NOT fast: if pregnant, under 21, have EDs, any illness, even a bad cold. When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So eat to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks.
  • Check with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate).
  • BREASTFEEDERS: start with 1000-cal FDs; optionally, reduce to 700 cals gradually. You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • SLEEP: everybody needs enough sleep, or weight loss may be slowed.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss if you you do NOT eat back exercise calories. Fasted training can burn more fat. HIIT works well with 5:2/IF.
OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
BigChocFrenzy · 20/03/2014 12:07

Betsy Glad to hear they are going to sort out your DS's problem on Monday. Best wishes to him for the op and you for the nerves.
Flowers
Hope your cold is gone by then, too, so you can have a Monday FD and save time on a hectic day.

Happy Birthday, dear Ze-ed, Happy Birthday to yooou !
Flowers

BigChocFrenzy · 20/03/2014 12:23

Breadandwine You are a lovely bloke, who restores our sometimes wavering faith in mankind.
Flowers
Tiggermommy Try some HIIT to boost your aerobic fitness.
I recommend adding some sprint intervals to your run.

  • So, 20 secs sprint to max effort, rest 20 secs, rinse and repeat.
  • Build up to 5 intervals 2-3 times per week.

Doris Well done, jumping straight back into the 5:2 swing.
Just post whenever you need a boost.

Even more motivation:
After a few weeks of FDs and much less junk, you should have saved enough to add a few £20 notes to your drawer.

You are going to lose that weight and this time we know you need a maintenance plan and coping strategies.

BigChocFrenzy · 20/03/2014 12:25

MrsF Lindt - the 90% cocoa bar mmm, oh yes, yes Grin

Octopus37 · 20/03/2014 12:34

Sounds as if everyone is doing well. FD for me today, so far have just had (am still eating) Celeriac, spinach, Crème Fraiche & Herb soup, yum

Southeastdweller · 20/03/2014 12:53

Happy birthday zed Flowers. I'm 40 next year too and bloody dreading it.

Doris I'm thinking some counselling would help, if you don't have a physical problem. I echo everyone else who's advised to keep posting for motivation because there's something almost magical about these threads for motivation.

BigChocFrenzy · 20/03/2014 12:53

Badger Tasty little treat, very healthy too:
1 square (=10g) of Lindt't 90% cocoa Excellence choc: 60 cals, 1.4g sugar
Waitrose have the 100g bar with 10 handy-size squares.

DorisAllTheDay · 20/03/2014 13:19

Just checking in. I really think this thread houses some of the nicest people in the world - I almost feel quite tearful (in a good way!) reading it.

FD going well so far, but boy am I hungry! I've allowed myself one bit of cheating to help me through the day. When I was 5:2-ing before I measured out my milk allowance for tea at the start of the day and made sure I didn't go over it. Today I've decided I can have as much tea as I want, because I know that hot drinks are appetite suppressants for me. I'm going easy on the milk (don't like much of it in tea anyway, just a small splash) but I'm not going to restrict it. What I absolutely don't want to happen is to run out of milk-for-tea allowance at 5.00 and find myself heading out for bagels instead. At the most it's only going to add an extra 30 or 40 calories or so, and given the thousands of extras I've been eating, it's not worth worrying about.

Southeast and Zed we'll all be entering another decade next year. Only in my case it'll be the fabulous 50s! And if all goes well, I'll be entering them with a decent waist/height ratio and with lots of extra cash for real treats - e.g. holiday to see DD2 who looks as if she's going to be in Shanghai for the foreseeable future - instead of all the rubbish 'treats' I've been piling into myself.

Runlikeareindeer · 20/03/2014 13:48

Urgh. Children keep waking at 5am. Dd only had 40 min nap as she's teething and did a toxic nappy. House looks like squatters live here.

But sensible eating today, and I lost 2lbs through the nasty stomach bug! So small victories!

ErrolTheDragon · 20/03/2014 13:58

Well done Doris. ! The milk thing sounds sensible - I wish I could do that because I love tea but only with a lot of milk - it puzzles me how I can fit so much in the space left in the mug after I've taken the teabag out. Glad the envelope trick is working so far - you've proved you can walk past all those shops. My suggestion would have been to find a different route you could take that avoids them (maybe a longer one if you could cycle it), but walking past them is great!

And well done Overtired sticking to FD under provocation.

Badger - my sweet treat at the moment (other than the good chocolate) is 3 whitworths vanilla prunes. They smell wonderful and have a bit of heft to them.

womblesofwestminster · 20/03/2014 14:51

House looks like squatters live here.

You should see mine Blush

You know what they say: Tidying up when kids are around is like shovelling snow in a snowstorm.

How old are your DC?

Miffytastic · 20/03/2014 15:00

MrsFlorrick IKYWM - I was told to steer clear of the pill etc due to previoulsy getting migraines with aura. What sort do you get?

Doris Last year I well and truly fell off the wagon and I really don't want it to happen again this time. Last year I did 2 fasts a week for the whole months of February to the end of June and lost about 11lbs. Then life got a bitstressful and I gave myself a week off, which became two, which became the summer.... and then I got injured so stopped exercising and then lots of family misery hit in September which led to emotional eating.. add in Christmas and I'd put that 11 pounds plus another half stone on. How depressing. So this time I know that weighing and doing 6:1 will be essential to keeping me at my goal of below 10 stone. This is my intent. At the moment I am aiming to be below 11 :/

FD for me today, finding it quite hard today thought the day is passing. Had an early start for a 4 hour meeting sustained only by 2 babybel lights and lots of tea (I passed on the cream cakes and have brought one home to eat tomorrow which hat tested my will on the train...!). I have a bit of a headache now though - any suggestions? :(

ErrolTheDragon · 20/03/2014 15:05

Miffy - have you been drinking enough since you got home? Of course sometimes a headache is nothing to do with it being an FD, in which case a paracetamol might not go amiss (not aspirin on an empty stomach)

zedzedzed · 20/03/2014 15:48

I wrote a big thing about crap days on FDs, it was a bit funny, but pc insisted I install updates RIGHT NOW so it closed and ate my post, I'm still too hangry to rewrite it...suffice to say my baby smells of expensive Sancerre and this birthday sucks, good thing I'm having the real one tomorrow.

Yay doris total greatness there, and great plan re milk, you just need to get back in the swing and get the binges sorted; what's a bit of milk compared to that feat?

Sweet treats for a FD...tricky one, I'm a salty girl (except totm) I'm not a fan of sweet diet foods either and would rather do without till 'tomorrow' then have something real...but I do like an Options coconut hot choc before bed if I'm feeling sweet-munchied on a FD, that or a flavoured coffee.

Sorry about your head miffy

Right, more coffee, more gum and a catch up of this thread.

Come on people, this Fast Day train is in sight of the station...chugga-chug...Crap From MIL's Fridge Chicken Casserole is only 3hrs away!

zedzedzed · 20/03/2014 15:50

PS on MFP when you run the last week's nutrition thing, what % protein, fat and carb do most of you get? Just curious.

Miffytastic · 20/03/2014 16:00

on my second big mug of mint tea and had a big glass of water. feeling a bit better :)

cuggles · 20/03/2014 16:02

Happy birthday Zed! Big 40 next year for me too! FD for me today and I have burnt my tongue drinking my cupasoup too hot as I was desperate! But apart from that it is going ok. Just dreaming of the things I can have tomorrow now!

Megrim · 20/03/2014 16:09

Aaagghh, having to cook DS1's dinner now, because he's hungry (lemon roasted chicken with broccoli and peas) but I've still got another couple of hours to go until mine.

Tea, tea, more bloody tea ...

zedzedzed · 20/03/2014 16:14

Gum...stick gum in your gub...toddler dinner tastes crap when it sticks to your minty gum!

BsshBossh · 20/03/2014 16:14

Hello from an old-timer. In my 8th week now maintaining BMI of 20 (from a high of BMI 36) and haven't been able to fast at all due to losing weight if I even do 6:1. So I'm just accepting that as the status quo for now. I feel great that I've not put on weight despite eating normally. But I do miss fasting.

Overtiredmum · 20/03/2014 16:17

BsshBossh

I read your post far too quickly and read it as "But I do miss farting."

Did make me Grin

OTM x

BsshBossh · 20/03/2014 16:24
Grin
DorisAllTheDay · 20/03/2014 16:32

Come on people, this Fast Day train is in sight of the station...chugga-chug

Great image! And this time I'm still on the train, first time I've got this far in weeks, so that's an achievement on its own. I've set 6.00 as my evening meal goal time, less than two hours now. And my soup's going to taste so much nicer after an FD than after a day of grazing on buns and biscuits, right?

MiffY, I hope the liquid intake is sorting your headache. I completely get what you mean about one week off turning into two and then longer. I do hope that the stresses in your life have calmed down a bit now.

Zed, glad to hear that your official birthday is still to come - that'll be you and the Queen with two birthdays then. Happy official birthday for tomorrow.

Errol, if only I could find a route to work that avoids all shops. Sadly I work in the centre of town surrounded by supermarkets, bakeries, cafes, chip shops, newsagents, even fancy restaurants should I ever be able to afford them. There's no way to avoid them. I do go quite a long way round to minimise temptation (with the added bonus that it's hilly so I get some exercise) but it's impossible to get myself completely out of harm's way. I need a new job in the middle of nowhere!

BetsyBell · 20/03/2014 16:58

Ooh, lots of us turning 40 next year!

Thanks for all the nice words re. DS operation Flowers. Monday is pretty likely to be a fast day no matter what as I'm sure me and DH will be too anxious to eat.

OP posts:
zedzedzed · 20/03/2014 17:05

Aaargh, betsy sorry I must've missed your post, God, terrifying no matter how routine; your baby's your baby.
But great you have some sort of resolution. Everything crossed for the op being as short as possible so you don't worry needlessly while you're waiting. XX

plecofjustice · 20/03/2014 17:20

I've had enough of fasting today. I'm ravenous, peeing incessantly from the ridiculous amount of water I've had, and still go 4 hours to go before tea.

Trying really, really hard not to jack it in and eat something, but it's soooo hard ! grrr

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