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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

The 5:2 thread number 41: Springing into March or marching into spring? Either way, more sunshine means easier fast days! Come and join us in getting healthier, the fast way.

999 replies

BetsyBell · 15/03/2014 11:04

The continuing thread for those of us following the 5:2 fast or other forms of fasting such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012 and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat normally - or approximately your Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE - see explanation below). 4:3 is the same except you fast on 3 days in the week. Alternate-day fasting (ADF) is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. 16:8 is another form where you stick to only eating in an 8 hour window each day, therefore fasting for 16 hours each day.

By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low; around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.

You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.

WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website or app many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a TDEE calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

NFD = Non fast day.

NSV/LSV = Non scale victory/Lifestyle (change) victory.

Michael Mosley has a website to accompany his book on the subject. Please go check it out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

Lurkers and new starters: please just jump in and post - you'll find a lot of support here and we’re a friendly bunch.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

Other Threads
All our previous threads can be found by browsing through the fasting section of the site.

Tips and Links : breadandwine’s resource for some of the tips and links that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

Inspirational: eatriskier’s thread has some lovely inspiring stories which are worth checking out if you want some motivation to get started or keep going through a plateau. Please add your own too.

Recipes: frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

Exercise: bigchocfrenzy has an incredibly informative and helpful exercise and fitness thread for discussion and advice on combining 5:2 with an exercise regime.

Maintaining: If you've been at this a while and are moving on to maintaining your goal weight, there is a thread here to discuss that.

Other links
This is a BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon - link to that programme here.

This Telegraph article comments on the diet and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley himself, very informative if you're just starting.

This blog post gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

This link nicely demonstrates that there are many ‘right’ body shapes and types, because what we are actually aiming for is low body fat for fitness and health.

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5lbs reduction in body weight and a 4cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant. It also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

If you’ve been researching IF you may have come across this article which is highly negative about women with BMI in the normal range. Here’s our response to that:

  • With a healthy BMI, those who want to be leaner will usually find weight and waist loss to be much slower than for overweight folk, since, less fat and inches are available to lose.
  • The women with healthy BMIs already had healthier blood sugar than the men in the study. Hence nothing really needed improving.
  • Women who have had health problems on IF were NOT doing 5:2, but the
much tougher ADF or 16:8, ^combined with heavy lifting (often multiples of body weight) AND were often starting from already ultra-low BF 12-16% range.^

-Many were already missing periods or had EDs before IF, due to the low BF %, over-training and over-stressing.

5:2 is a gentler form of IF than ADF or Leangains and there’s plenty of anecdotal evidence from longterm 5:2ers, now with healthy BMI, who are continuing to have very positive results and experiences on this WOE.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful.

A HUGE THANK YOU to Greeneggsandnicht for putting together all this info and resources into one concise OP text, much appreciated by so many 5:2ers!

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this way of life!

And lastly, a few FAQs/Healthy tips :

  • WATER: Start each day with a pint of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • Hot drinks: no limits on tea or coffee any day, just note any milk / sugar calories on FDs.
  • FDs: concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Old hands skip breakfast & save most cals for supper.
  • NFDs: no rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar, artificial sweeteners, fizzy drinks, junk food. A few treats per week are good though! Aim to average TDEE over NFDs each week, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • CLENCH for health: men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily.
  • Do NOT fast: if pregnant, under 21, have EDs, any illness, even a bad cold. When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So eat to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks.
  • Check with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate).
  • BREASTFEEDERS: start with 1000-cal FDs; optionally, reduce to 700 cals gradually. You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • SLEEP: everybody needs enough sleep, or weight loss may be slowed.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss if you you do NOT eat back exercise calories. Fasted training can burn more fat. HIIT works well with 5:2/IF.
OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
ErrolTheDragon · 20/03/2014 08:58

Oh, I'm on an FD too. I need to go and do my workout - the best way to avoid that FD cold feeling is to get nice and warm by exercising first thing, then warm bath or shower a bit later .... the luxury of working from home.

zedzedzed · 20/03/2014 09:09

Ouch hellie I'd be in secret floods over that one...well at least you're doing something about it and will be setting a great example by being a slim and healthy Mum with a leg to stand on when she starts moaning about her own non-existent 'fat' when she's older.

Insane mother just called,(not a turn of phrase btw, she's truly mental) ostensibly to say Happy Birthday to me, which she forgot to actually say, but in fact it was just to moan about her latest imaginary illnesses for 20mins and tell me she was dying of a sore shoulder and off to the Doc to get a diagnosis (she goes twice a week or to the A&E if it's night), I know she's ill in the head but it doesn't stop me wanting to slap her one. Oh no...look...the 'hanger' is back!

Ok...now had a good cry about having a non-mother, time to have more coffee and get this Fast Train out of the station...all aboaaaaaaard!!

MetellaEstMater · 20/03/2014 09:14

Hellie, my three year old recently asked me if there was a baby growing in my bum as 'it's big like when baby sister was in your tummy'. I carry most of my weight in my lower half so she's right but still played on my mind for a while. Part of the reason DH and I have moved to this WOE is to retrain portion control and set a good example to our girls. We are a household that eats good, fresh food on the whole and we always cook from scratch, there's just far too much of it!

I am also determined to set a good example when it comes to exercise. DD1 (the three year old) and I have been making up stories using yoga poses this week (the dog sits under a tree and sees a fish swim under the bridge) which had been a fun, free activity and got us moving!

CiderwithBuda · 20/03/2014 09:42

Morning all.

SV - 7lbs down since I started 5:2ing. Happy!

Doris - hi - I have only been doing this for about three weeks but I have been where you are. Lost three stone on weight watchers two years ago and put two back on. Was losing and gaining the same half stone for ages and then from November to January I went mad. Ate and drank way to much. Did zero exercise. Gained almost a stone in two months. I have 2lbs to go to get rid of that stone. And then another half stone to get to my lightest on WW. Bloody frustrating. And all mine own fault.

It's hard. I was going to a hypnotherapist/counsellor to work on the mental side as it's so important. I havent been for a few weeks but kind of feel that focussing on the past/failure too much will just make me feel shit and more likely to do it all again. I'm concentrating on the fact that the weight is coming off. I'm feeling in control. I'm eating healthy controlled food on NFDs.

I also have a lot of knee and general leg pain at the moment which is definitely not helped by my weight so that is a big incentive.

Off to physio now for my knees! Good luck with your FD. Keep posting!

Have a good day everyone else.

CiderwithBuda · 20/03/2014 09:42

Oh - happy birthday Zed! Thanks

BetsyBell · 20/03/2014 09:45

I'm meant to be on fast day but impending cold has turned into a streaming cold so am opting for sensible eating instead. Have learnt the hard way that attempting to fast while not healthy just means over-eating the next day.

Oh, and it might make some of you feel better to know that a kid at school asked if I was pregnant yesterday - I have very little tummy flab now and a teeny waist so who knows what that was about! I was wearing a belt to hold up my too-big-round-the-waist trousers so maybe it was that!

Just catching up on the new series of Secret Eaters on 4OD - 1st episode had a demonstration of how people naturally want to eat more when they're sleep-deprived. So any of you fasting remotely successfully, or even just keeping to your tdee, after a disturbed night with young/sick kids should give yourself a damn big pat on the back and be very pleased with yourselves! Flowers

I could not have done this when my kids were smaller at all. It took for both of them to be at school for me to get myself together! And no prizes for guessing how all the weight crept on in the first place either. I don't think I had a full night's sleep for at least 5 years in a row - including pregnancy.

The good news is that, now they're older, they see me and my healthy ways as a positive and inspiring influence.

OP posts:
BetsyBell · 20/03/2014 09:46

Happy birthday Zed - you are 5 months older than me!

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DorisAllTheDay · 20/03/2014 09:49

Happy birthday, Zed. In the absence of a poo icon it'll have to be some Thanks and a cup of Brew from me.

Friday, I just re-read your account of getting back on the wagon. I think you're absolutely right, one day at a time.

Well, I made it safely into work for the first time in at least three weeks. I negotiated the millions of Sainsburys locals which I have to walk past, and to be honest it was a bit of a relief to know that I didn't have to make the decision as I walked past each one whether or not I would go in, and exactly how many bagels/croissants/hot cross buns I would buy, and would the cookies be on special offer in which case it would seem silly not to. The decision was already made, my tenner was in the sealed envelope, and I didn't have to think about it. The only part of BigChoc's advice that wasn't needed was about throwing out all the junk. Sadly the junk hasn't lasted long enough to make it into the kitchen - it's been straight from shopping bag to gob. Blush Still, at least there are no nasties lurking in cupboards to trip me up.

It's nice to see so many familiar posters as well as people who've started posting since I was last here. If MrsF, Zed, Chocupid, Errol and others feel like posting a potted update it would be lovely to know how you've been getting on - at around the time I zoned out, Zed you'd had the most terrific SV if I remember rightly. Hope those scales are still heading in the right direction for everyone.

BetsyBell · 20/03/2014 09:50

If anyone remembers me being all anxious about my DS and a medical thing on a recent thread, we finally have a resolution and he's going in for a bit of surgery on Monday that will sort it once and for all. So although the fact he's got to have an operation is worrying in itself, I do finally feel enormously relieved that we have a date and it will all be over very soon.

OP posts:
Overtiredmum · 20/03/2014 09:51

Morning all! Lots of messages to catch up on! I'm with EE and had a massive service shortage last night and still no internet on my phone, although now in work am on their wifi, but don't need it now I have my compooter Grin How did we ever cope without mobiles and wifi internet? I felt lost last night!!!

Anyway, I am FD again today, with the next one scheduled for Sunday. Yesterday's NFD was good, struggled to use up my reduced TDEE, I am having 85% so I can have a takeaway and a glass or two of vino on Saturday.

I'm glad I decided to fast today - I am seething thanks to STBXH, and this would normally see me grabbing for food. He was having the DC for a sleepover Saturday night, which meant I could arrange a date Grin but he has now decided that going fishing is much more important. I'm still having my date, but just means an "at home" one. But seriously, he moans about missing quality time with DC, then puts fishing over them? And I wonder why my parents think he was worth staying with Confused

Anyhow, hoping I am kept busy at work today to keep my mind off food, although I am already excitedly planning dinner.

Right time to catch up with the thread and see how you are all doing........

OTM

BetsyBell · 20/03/2014 09:53

Hello again to Doris - I'm sure you'll be back on track in no time - you know it works, and you know it's for life! We can learn brilliant lessons on 5:2 but slipping off the wagon can just mean slipping into old habits.

I know I'm on it for ever - even by the second NFD I often find myself eating more than I should so absolutely need that fast day reset!

OP posts:
Eatriskier · 20/03/2014 10:01

Happy birthday zed

16:8 no junk day today. DS goes to MIL's this afternoon so I have some me time. Most likely will include cleaning, bread making and nail painting. Rock and roll as ever here.

DorisAllTheDay · 20/03/2014 10:16

Betsy I remember your anxiety about DS's health. I'm so glad to hear that things are about to be resolved. Fingers crossed that all goes well on Monday and he's fully fit after that.

MetellaEstMater · 20/03/2014 10:32

Really good news Betsy. Wishing him all the best got the op and a speedy recovery.

Happy birthday zed Thanks!

Eatriskier · 20/03/2014 10:34

betsy missed the update about your DS. Sorry he's got to have an operation but I'm glad you at least know what it is and hope he recovers well.

Chocupid · 20/03/2014 10:48

Good for you Doris think how fab/smug you'll feel at the end of today's successful fast.
I've just got one of my fave tighter dresses out of wardrobe, I'm gonna leave it out hung up in full view all day today so I can picture myself in it.
Just for extra motivation and inspiration if I get hungry.

Bit later than planned but off to gym.

hecandtob · 20/03/2014 11:04

Can someone offer some advice...
I have gained half a pound this week. I go to the gym 3/4 times a week. I fast on Mon and Thurs and eat sensibly other days. My TDEE says I should be eating 2100 a day on NFDs but I rarely eat that, it seems like loads. I feel like I'm getting slimmer and my face is looking alimmer (I always lose weight from top of my body down, so the bit I really want to lose from (bum and legs) is always last to go!)
Why am I gaining? HELP - so frustrating...

IPokedABadgerWithASpoon · 20/03/2014 11:16

I'm doing the food shop now - can anyone give any ideas for a very low calorie sweet treat?
I like having something when I finish work with a hot chocolate would previously have been a pack of biscuits! I would normally have a yoghurt but a bit bored of that now?

runningLou · 20/03/2014 11:18

hecandtob I'm not sure but I really sympathise! Also have body type where all weight lost from top down so collar bone sticks out, I am down to size AA- (i.e. mosquito bite boobs!!) and yet I have thunder thighs and a massive bum - SO out of proportion! I wish my body would eat my thigh fat on an FD. Running doesn't help as thighs are really muscly ... I also go to the gym a lot and when I calculated my TDEE it came out the same, at over 2000, which I think is too much for weight loss, so I am going for 1800, and in fact often closer to 1500 and I am trying NOT to eat back the cals used in exercise. That said it's only week 1 for me so I may adapt my thinking!
I decided not to do another FD today after yesterday as I was absolutely ravenous for brekkie when I woke up! Had a much bigger brekkie than normal - does anyone else find they do that the morning after an FD? So, am going to attempt an FD tomorrow and save all my calories for the evening - we're eating out. I will really try and control portion size and not obsess about clearing my plate (usual approach!).

runningLou · 20/03/2014 11:20

Caramel snack-a-jack rice cake? Think about 61 cals? Or yogurt topped rice cakes are nice ... about 80 cals.

womblesofwestminster · 20/03/2014 11:49

Caramel snack-a-jack rice cake

The cheese ones are the best. Mmmmmmmmm.

But - and it's a big but (no reference to my arse) - rice cakes are high-GI so after the initial bloat, they won't keep you feeling full for long.

Megrim · 20/03/2014 11:53

runningLou I spent the first 6 weeks of the New Year doing consecutive FDs (Sun and Mon) and then another FD on a Thursday, the first week was hard but I settled into the routine and found it OK. I stopped because I had some Sunday sports events coming up (with nice lunches!) so switched to 5:2 (Mon and Thur) with the occasional extra FD thrown in on a Saturday, or a mini-fast on a Saturday.

Happy Birthday zed Thanks I think your mum and mine must be related. I think the older they get, the more any phone conversation becomes about them IYSWIM. I only have to add in the odd "uh-huh" and she's happy for hours.

hecandtob half a pound is nothing really (it's less than half a pint of water). Could be water, increased muscle mass, food in your system, lots of things. I lose weight from the top down too, but since 5th January I've lost 4 inches off my hips (now down to 38") so it will happen!

MrsFlorrick · 20/03/2014 11:56

Hi everyone.

Me and my hanger disappeared last night suddenly with a bar of Lindt choc BlushBlush sorry (hangs head in shame).

Better today.
TOMT messing with me.
If I wasn't so old and migraine prone I would go on the pill to sort te hormonal rage. But I can't have any hormonal stuff due to migraine type. Hmm

Never mind it's 48 hours and only truly about 12 of which I feel like strangling folk. Blush

Doris. You've come far already!! Don't fee bad for having a slip up before getting back on the horse so to speak.

I almost lost all of my 6+ stone of baby weight when DS was 16 months and I fell of the Dukan wagon big time and gained over 2stone back BlushConfused

But in Jan 2013, I pulled it back and low carb for 6 months before starting 5:2 and finding all you wonderful people GrinGrin

And I am at goal. BMI 21 and back to pre preg weight and I have maintained for about 5 weeks now.

Doris it's a slip up. Back into the fray. We will all support you! (Holds hand). (((Hugs)))

Zedzed. ShockShock Poo flinging! Shock Please tell me its not a trend amongst pre schoolers. Shock If DS starts that it will drive me over the edge I tell ya. Grin

Betsy. ((((Hugs)))). Your poor DS. I do hope the sugery goes really well and he recovers quickly. We are all here when you need us.

MrsFlorrick · 20/03/2014 11:57

ThanksThanksThanks Happy birthday to ZedThanksThanksThanks WineWine

womblesofwestminster · 20/03/2014 12:02

TOMT messing with me

Mine is approaching. I feel your pain. My appetite is shooting up. Grrrrrrr!