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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

The 5:2 thread number 41: Springing into March or marching into spring? Either way, more sunshine means easier fast days! Come and join us in getting healthier, the fast way.

999 replies

BetsyBell · 15/03/2014 11:04

The continuing thread for those of us following the 5:2 fast or other forms of fasting such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012 and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat normally - or approximately your Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE - see explanation below). 4:3 is the same except you fast on 3 days in the week. Alternate-day fasting (ADF) is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. 16:8 is another form where you stick to only eating in an 8 hour window each day, therefore fasting for 16 hours each day.

By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low; around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.

You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.

WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website or app many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a TDEE calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

NFD = Non fast day.

NSV/LSV = Non scale victory/Lifestyle (change) victory.

Michael Mosley has a website to accompany his book on the subject. Please go check it out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

Lurkers and new starters: please just jump in and post - you'll find a lot of support here and we’re a friendly bunch.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

Other Threads
All our previous threads can be found by browsing through the fasting section of the site.

Tips and Links : breadandwine’s resource for some of the tips and links that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

Inspirational: eatriskier’s thread has some lovely inspiring stories which are worth checking out if you want some motivation to get started or keep going through a plateau. Please add your own too.

Recipes: frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

Exercise: bigchocfrenzy has an incredibly informative and helpful exercise and fitness thread for discussion and advice on combining 5:2 with an exercise regime.

Maintaining: If you've been at this a while and are moving on to maintaining your goal weight, there is a thread here to discuss that.

Other links
This is a BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon - link to that programme here.

This Telegraph article comments on the diet and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley himself, very informative if you're just starting.

This blog post gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

This link nicely demonstrates that there are many ‘right’ body shapes and types, because what we are actually aiming for is low body fat for fitness and health.

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5lbs reduction in body weight and a 4cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant. It also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

If you’ve been researching IF you may have come across this article which is highly negative about women with BMI in the normal range. Here’s our response to that:

  • With a healthy BMI, those who want to be leaner will usually find weight and waist loss to be much slower than for overweight folk, since, less fat and inches are available to lose.
  • The women with healthy BMIs already had healthier blood sugar than the men in the study. Hence nothing really needed improving.
  • Women who have had health problems on IF were NOT doing 5:2, but the
much tougher ADF or 16:8, ^combined with heavy lifting (often multiples of body weight) AND were often starting from already ultra-low BF 12-16% range.^

-Many were already missing periods or had EDs before IF, due to the low BF %, over-training and over-stressing.

5:2 is a gentler form of IF than ADF or Leangains and there’s plenty of anecdotal evidence from longterm 5:2ers, now with healthy BMI, who are continuing to have very positive results and experiences on this WOE.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful.

A HUGE THANK YOU to Greeneggsandnicht for putting together all this info and resources into one concise OP text, much appreciated by so many 5:2ers!

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this way of life!

And lastly, a few FAQs/Healthy tips :

  • WATER: Start each day with a pint of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • Hot drinks: no limits on tea or coffee any day, just note any milk / sugar calories on FDs.
  • FDs: concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Old hands skip breakfast & save most cals for supper.
  • NFDs: no rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar, artificial sweeteners, fizzy drinks, junk food. A few treats per week are good though! Aim to average TDEE over NFDs each week, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • CLENCH for health: men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily.
  • Do NOT fast: if pregnant, under 21, have EDs, any illness, even a bad cold. When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So eat to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks.
  • Check with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate).
  • BREASTFEEDERS: start with 1000-cal FDs; optionally, reduce to 700 cals gradually. You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • SLEEP: everybody needs enough sleep, or weight loss may be slowed.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss if you you do NOT eat back exercise calories. Fasted training can burn more fat. HIIT works well with 5:2/IF.
OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
Helliecopter · 19/03/2014 21:28

I think a load of virtual hugs are required today!

Anyone watch Secret Eaters on 4 tonight? I'm watching on +1 at the moment. It's hilarious but awful at the same time.

Octopus37 · 19/03/2014 21:31

Wow Cuggles, looks like I might have a Cyper twin. Not too bad today but not too good either. FD tomorrow, but have bough some lush soups from Waitrose.

Not2bObvious · 19/03/2014 21:55

Helie I watched it - the bowl of cereal he concocted, cream and jam, oh my, and he really didn't register it at the time. And thinking Special K was a healthy and low fat food - blooming expensive sugary muck! I love the way Anna R does the opening bit when they explain how little they eat, how can they be x stone overweight. Love it, every time I watch I do a mental check that I am actually honest to mfp on my eating, and I ammostly

Not2bObvious · 19/03/2014 21:57

I mean I love the way she looks like she believes them and you know she's like yeah right on her head!

runningLou · 19/03/2014 21:58

First FD is over and comes in at 510 cals so not bad for a first try! Went to pilates and didn't eat back the calories either! And I ran there - albeit only about 8 mins running!!
Not sure whether to fast again tomorrow as we are out Fri evening for an (unavoidable) meal, but then maybe 2 FDs back to back is a bit full on for week 1??

BigChocFrenzy · 19/03/2014 22:19

Well done on the 1st FD, Runninglou
2 FDs back to back is really tough. I think only 1 person here does that

We usually have at least 1 NFD in between. Why not fast Friday or even Sat or Sun, to reduce weekend damage ?

BigChocFrenzy · 19/03/2014 22:21

oops, I see you can't have a Fri FD. Well, Sat / Sun / Mon

beanandspud · 19/03/2014 22:28

I've just done 2 FDs back-to-back RunningLou and it is doable but not much fun. I have odd weeks where I just can't fit it in any other way with work.

Day 1 is fine but I'm finding that I need something in the morning of day 2 to keep me going. Today I had a snack mid-morning, soup at lunch and then a smaller dinner compared to yesterday where it felt easy to keep going until miso soup at around 2pm and then a fairly 'normal' 400cal dinner.

DorisAllTheDay · 19/03/2014 23:06

Blush Am I allowed back? [runs and crawls back under the bedclothes]

Yes, I've been hiding. I haven't even dared read the threads. I am really, really, truly off the wagon. I've just stepped on the scales for the first time in about three weeks, and unsurprisingly I've tipped back over 11stone. I can't believe I'm doing this to myself. It took me over a year to lose 6 stone, and nearly 2 stone of it is back in a couple of months of overeating. I just can't seem to stop myself. Last time I was on this forum (last thread!) I was contemplating a doctor's visit to see if anything hormonal is going on (I'm peri-menopausal) which might at least explain why I can't muster up the teensiest bit of self-control around food. But I haven't been able to make myself go and see a doctor - I've never talked to anyone about my lifelong weight problems and I can't imagine starting now.

So... is there anyone else in the neighbourhood who's had a few months of being badly, badly off the wagon and managed to clamber back on? I'm not talking a couple of days of being the odd hundred calories over TDEE, but eating whole packets of chocolate digestives and loaves of bread. Any tips? I'd really love to get back to doing FDs as I felt good when I was doing them, but I can't make it past the supermarkets and newsagents on the way to work without going in for something.

BigChocFrenzy · 19/03/2014 23:37

Hey Doris, we missed you. Sorry things have gone awry for you.
You are among friends
Smile (({HUG}))
For several years, I had 5,000 cal choc Frenzies twice a week, but they only lasted a couple of hrs and being a gym bunny I mostly got away with it.

5:2 stopped my frenzies. I can only suggest you jump back into 5:2 right away, maybe like this:

  • Write out your FD meal plan with calorie count and plan your meals in advance for an FD tomorrow.
  • Empty all junk food and bread from cupboards, fridge, handbag etc into the dustbin. Yes, it is a waste of money, but it should HURT.
  • Take one large denomination note, say £10 or 20, and seal it inside an envelope with sellotape. Write "Emergency only - NO CRAP" on this
- Empty your purse and handbag of all credit cards and cash into another envelope in a drawer
  • Put the "Emergency" money in your handbag, as your only money.

Now when you go out tomorrow, do NOT tear open the Emergency money.

Whenever you feel tempted to binge or buy more crap, stop and post here for help. Someone is sure to be around.
Smile

EagleRay · 19/03/2014 23:38

For Bigchoc www.retronaut.com/2013/03/women-with-weights/

Would love a waist like that!

BigChocFrenzy · 19/03/2014 23:59

EagleRay Do 5:2, HIIT, lift heavy, have patience and that waist can be yours
Smile

EagleRay · 20/03/2014 00:05

I know - one of them is my trainer Smile Supposed to be at gym session this eve but it was cancelled so have treated myself to early(ish) night in bed.

I'm squatting 45kg now, would like to build up to body weight - good incentive to reduce body weight!

BigChocFrenzy · 20/03/2014 00:14

That's great, another lifter !
Smile

Breadandwine · 20/03/2014 01:52

Reading these threads over the last couple of years has been a real eye-opener for me. I thought I was an empathetic, liberated, feminist-type who pretty well understood what being a mother was all about.

Hmm…

I now realise I knew nothing! You guys have my total respect.

For what you put your bodies through whilst bearing and delivering your children - to caring for them 24/7, right through to adulthood. Sometimes with support from a partner, often without.

And to do all this with (generally) such calm acceptance of your lot and such good humour - you just bloody well get on with it, don't you?

I think you all deserve a medal. You certainly deserve more than you get from this society.

All I can say to MrsF and zed and anyone else suffering with their kids, ATM - "This too shall pass!" Hang on to that thought when things are at their worst.

I know that's a bit trite - but it's all I have to offer, I'm afraid.Blush

FridayJones · 20/03/2014 03:22

Doris, yup, that's me! Did great last year, then had loads of RL stuff going on, and let myself go nuts til Jan just gone. All the lbs I'd lost came back and brought friends.
I couldn't face getting straight back into it, so I did a half arsed attempt for about 6 weeks. Then I got bored of not seeing the scales go down, so I did just one proper fast day and felt so great after it that I've dived back into full 5:2 and loving it. On the first full week, I even binged on creme eggs and crisps overate a bit at the weekend but I was so sad to see the lbs go back on, it was easier not to do that again the next week.
That's what I'd say about this WoE. You don't have to commit to months of eating great stretching off into the infinite future. You just commit to one day. Then the next day you feel light, or see the scales and think, when's my next one.
Also, when i was getting back on proper 5:2, I set up MFP with all my recipes and it was like I was able to start working on the WoE before I'd even resisted a crumb. It got me into the mindset, and with everything planned out, I didn't have to think about it every day.

Good news story for me on my FD today.
Found out there are 418kj in a calory, not 350. (Aussie food labels work in kj)
This means I have 40 extra calories for dinner tonight, cos my lunch was lighter than I thought. Party on.
Thanks wed FDers. You made it.

BreakOutTheKaraoke · 20/03/2014 06:33

Fast day one done, ended up with soup for lunch and porridge before bed, had that as the urge to go make a sandwich was overwhelming! Surprisingly, I weigh more on the scales this morning than yesterday morning. I know it will eveout, its just quite strange. Can't decide whether to crack on and get my second fast over today or wait til tomorrow. Not hungry yet anyway, and Ive still got half my soup left at work. See how I feel at lunchtime.

Well done everuone- we made it through!

Chocupid · 20/03/2014 06:41

Ooh welcome back Doris was only asking bout you on last thread (big hugs coming your way!!)

Glad all went well at docs and you know what's wrong now. , you must feel a little better knowing.

Seems like there's a lot of us who after doing well last year have fell of the wagon and struggling to get back on it so your never alone, and remember you felt like this before and still lost 6 STONE that's an amazing achievement, so you know you can do it!! Grin

The money in envelopes idea from Bigchoc is a good one, I do this for money saving reasons, when I get a set amount of notes I take it out of purse and pop in a sealed envelope and it works (apart from having a little heart attack the odd time I forget go in my purse and see nothing!!)
Once in the envelope (must be sealed) you really don't like tearing it open, and you have a sence of satisfaction when you get back home with a sealed envelope (I know simple pleasures..)

I can't get into a routine either at the moment, but have re joined a gym (left the posh expensive one where they all wear make up and never sweat for a large council one which actually has better machines and I feel less self conscious) putting on my snug gym kit is a reminder of what I need to do to get into my summer clothes (will not/cannot buy new ones)

If your fasting today with us start with a little exercise this morning if you can it makes you feel better more strong and in control and sets you off on a good start for a FD. The sence of control is what I've missed, which I definitely had last year when I did well.

I will be off to gym this morning then nothing but tea and bovril till dinner which will be a low cal ready meal or a protein shake, must be something I don't have to think about .

Good luck today Doris and all fasters

IPokedABadgerWithASpoon · 20/03/2014 07:18

God, I'm tired! I didn't finish work til gone 11pm and the kids were up at 6am! The baby isn't well so I'll let him off but it means we won't be going out today so the 3 year old will be manic and bouncing off the walls by the time DP comes home - today might be a write off!

tiggermummy70 · 20/03/2014 07:38

Badger you have my sympathy. DD1 was up being ill last night. changing sheet on loft bed is challenging enough with lights on. In the dark and messy kids room lucky not to break my neck! She doesn't want to go to school which means she is definitely not well. She loves school and today is special. Oranges & Lemons service at St Clement Danes Alwych. they have been learning dance routine for ages. Sad I will ask if she has improved later can she come in just to take part. But its 50/50 she will be up for it. DD2 is happy she doesn't have to share me on the train!
On another note managing to move towards 16:8 most days. I have reached another goal
Total lost 60lbs. lowest ever since the 90's 7lbs to next goal under 12st.
The last year for me was a nightmare of trying different things and not loosing ao hoping this continues.

Had Gym induction Friday.
Instructor was ex army so no fluffy stuff. According to him I am fitter than I think! Working on cardio as need to improve stamina when I run I run out of puff before my legs get tired. Can't catch breath so stop running. My fitness goal for this year is to earn my 50 tshirt at parkrun -22 to go and run at least one complete lap. did 3/4's last week.
Have a good day all

DorisAllTheDay · 20/03/2014 08:07

Thanks, people. OK, the 10 pound note is going into an envelope (I don't have a 20!) and my FD is planned - LOF till about 2pm when I'll have some salad, then liquid only until 6pm or later if I can manage it when I'll have some big, chunky chicken and vegetable soup. I was thinking to coast down to an FD with a few TDEE days, but I think BigChoc is right, and straight into FD is the way to go.

Big hugs to those struggling with small children. It's tough at the time, but you'll soon be looking back on these as the golden years!

zedzedzed · 20/03/2014 08:35

bread what a lovely thing to say! Thanks Grin

Official birthday today, I'm a whole 39yrs old. Trying not to care that an entire poo got flung at me in a pair of PJs this morning...it's all groovy.

I'm going for my regular Thursday fast day today so I can have a proper birthday celebration out tomorrow night, (totm cake obsession has passed and there's still half a cake left; I call that a victory as the 'hanger' was something brutal and only got worse as we had a ding dong with the teenager re crap boyf who needs dumping, and then with each other re the 'hanger', fell asleep in a huff, woke up loved up...sleep is truly a miraculously restorative thing).

doris so glad you're back. You're a very brave girl. It's great you're jumping right in with a FD and brilliant that you've, with bcf's help, devised a binge-battling plan. (I still think a word/confession to your GP may help you root it all out, but maybe you can build up to that, or maybe you'll nail it this time and won't need to...there's an inventive to keep it in its box eh?) You've done amazingly to get to this point, 6whole stone, still 4 of those gone, I'm so crossing everything for you to kick today's arse and feel in control again.

Who else is on the fast Train today?

Helliecopter · 20/03/2014 08:50

Choo choo...I'm on the fast train too. Sipping peppermint & liquorice tea and trying not to think about breakfast. Got both DDs to entertain, which usually makes for a harder FD but I'm in a positive frame of mind. Although 3yo is being a stroppy madam so I need to try to occupy her with something fun that doesn't cost anything or involve food!
She told me I had a fat tummy this morning. She asked if I was having another baby. I said no, I've had my babies. She said "but your tummy is really fat!" We don't use the f word at home, so she must have picked it up at nursery. I know she's using it as an adjective rather than insult but it's still hard to brush off!

ErrolTheDragon · 20/03/2014 08:51

Welcome back Doris! Straight back on the wagon sounds like the best plan.

Talk about your issues with us enough and maybe you'll get to the point of being able to discuss them with a doctor if you need to. One possibility might be if your GPs or a local hospital runs a Well Woman clinic (or find a private one - get yourself sorted and you'll be saving lots of money not buying junk) - their raison d'etre is to discuss stuff like menopause, general health etc.

MetellaEstMater · 20/03/2014 08:54

Posting in solidarity with others who have young children! Ten week old was up hourly for a minuscule breastfeed each time, but there was no waking her more fully to get more milk in! So fasting today on very little sleep but we are on holiday so at least DH is around so it's a joint effort today.