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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

The 5:2 thread number 41: Springing into March or marching into spring? Either way, more sunshine means easier fast days! Come and join us in getting healthier, the fast way.

999 replies

BetsyBell · 15/03/2014 11:04

The continuing thread for those of us following the 5:2 fast or other forms of fasting such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012 and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat normally - or approximately your Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE - see explanation below). 4:3 is the same except you fast on 3 days in the week. Alternate-day fasting (ADF) is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. 16:8 is another form where you stick to only eating in an 8 hour window each day, therefore fasting for 16 hours each day.

By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low; around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.

You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.

WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website or app many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a TDEE calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

NFD = Non fast day.

NSV/LSV = Non scale victory/Lifestyle (change) victory.

Michael Mosley has a website to accompany his book on the subject. Please go check it out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

Lurkers and new starters: please just jump in and post - you'll find a lot of support here and we’re a friendly bunch.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

Other Threads
All our previous threads can be found by browsing through the fasting section of the site.

Tips and Links : breadandwine’s resource for some of the tips and links that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

Inspirational: eatriskier’s thread has some lovely inspiring stories which are worth checking out if you want some motivation to get started or keep going through a plateau. Please add your own too.

Recipes: frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

Exercise: bigchocfrenzy has an incredibly informative and helpful exercise and fitness thread for discussion and advice on combining 5:2 with an exercise regime.

Maintaining: If you've been at this a while and are moving on to maintaining your goal weight, there is a thread here to discuss that.

Other links
This is a BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon - link to that programme here.

This Telegraph article comments on the diet and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley himself, very informative if you're just starting.

This blog post gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

This link nicely demonstrates that there are many ‘right’ body shapes and types, because what we are actually aiming for is low body fat for fitness and health.

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5lbs reduction in body weight and a 4cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant. It also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

If you’ve been researching IF you may have come across this article which is highly negative about women with BMI in the normal range. Here’s our response to that:

  • With a healthy BMI, those who want to be leaner will usually find weight and waist loss to be much slower than for overweight folk, since, less fat and inches are available to lose.
  • The women with healthy BMIs already had healthier blood sugar than the men in the study. Hence nothing really needed improving.
  • Women who have had health problems on IF were NOT doing 5:2, but the
much tougher ADF or 16:8, ^combined with heavy lifting (often multiples of body weight) AND were often starting from already ultra-low BF 12-16% range.^

-Many were already missing periods or had EDs before IF, due to the low BF %, over-training and over-stressing.

5:2 is a gentler form of IF than ADF or Leangains and there’s plenty of anecdotal evidence from longterm 5:2ers, now with healthy BMI, who are continuing to have very positive results and experiences on this WOE.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful.

A HUGE THANK YOU to Greeneggsandnicht for putting together all this info and resources into one concise OP text, much appreciated by so many 5:2ers!

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this way of life!

And lastly, a few FAQs/Healthy tips :

  • WATER: Start each day with a pint of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • Hot drinks: no limits on tea or coffee any day, just note any milk / sugar calories on FDs.
  • FDs: concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Old hands skip breakfast & save most cals for supper.
  • NFDs: no rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar, artificial sweeteners, fizzy drinks, junk food. A few treats per week are good though! Aim to average TDEE over NFDs each week, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • CLENCH for health: men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily.
  • Do NOT fast: if pregnant, under 21, have EDs, any illness, even a bad cold. When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So eat to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks.
  • Check with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate).
  • BREASTFEEDERS: start with 1000-cal FDs; optionally, reduce to 700 cals gradually. You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • SLEEP: everybody needs enough sleep, or weight loss may be slowed.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss if you you do NOT eat back exercise calories. Fasted training can burn more fat. HIIT works well with 5:2/IF.
OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
MrsFlorrick · 19/03/2014 16:22

Actually Zed. I don't want any of your take away pizza. Ill bring cake and wine. Lots and lots of lurvely cake. (Drools). Not bothered which box set we watch. As long as it can zone my mind out completely so I don't have to think of any part of my life Wink

zedzedzed · 19/03/2014 16:34

Yes please!
Can we put the wee buggers in a cage and see which ones eat each other, survival of the fittest. I have a duvet with your name on it and a cake fork engraved Mrs F

I am a harridan. I have tortured my kids all day and vice versa. I too used to be good at this...I guess I will be again, but today I just want them to be silent or find new families. I am hiding in the kitchen too, on this lap top...'working' to avoid playing/screaming/bashing/fighting in the other room...and it's not my house so it's USELESS for kids, danger and cleanliness everywhere. Poor beggars.

MrsFlorrick · 19/03/2014 16:40

ZedzedGrinGrin
Padded cell. Sound proof. Not for them but for us!! No chance of hearing them then. Wink

Thanks for duvet and cake fork. I've got the Wine glasses. I was thinking raspberry chocolate cheesecake? Lemon drizzle and a naice carrot cake.

I'm an utterly shite failure of a parent. I've put the tv on for the DCSad. It's not even 5pm Sad

On the plus side, I've not locked them in the basement yet. Wink

cuggles · 19/03/2014 16:44

Yet another NFD overeat today but I have been at my sisters house which is full of treats (and yet she is a size 6!) and I have no willpower..although I did FD monday. Still Fast again tomorrow and strangely I am enjoying them and then that is it..proper NFDs for me! Octopus37..we can do it (funnily enough I have read a few of your posts on various threads and thought "is she me?"..can't think of an example now though!).

zedzedzed · 19/03/2014 17:04

You have a basement? Problem solved; wall shackles and cctv...it'll be on the news 'Basement Boy freed after 27yrs, mother claims insanity'

98yr old toothless nanny now says she won't eat: meat, chicken, fish, eggs, mashed vegetables as they're bland, whole vegetables as she can't chew, pasta, rice or soup. Am thinking of leaving her to waste away with a packet of rich tea and a flagon of sugary tea.

But have just spied an old bottle of Sambuca on a top shelf...I wonder how many cals per shot...

zedzedzed · 19/03/2014 17:06

100cals a shot.

Would 6 of those be enough to obliterate this day? Let's see shall we...

Megrim · 19/03/2014 17:08

MrsF and zed it will get better. Like when they get to be teenagers and just make the occasional grunting noise at random intervals. In the meantime, noise cancelling headphones are good ...

I usually end up making 3 or 4 different dinners - DS1 swimming at weird and unreasonable hours, DS2 doesn't like anything spicy or with vegetables, DH often only wants a sandwich.

BigChocFrenzy · 19/03/2014 17:37

MrsF, Zed (({hugs})) You are strong women and this stage will pass.

RunningLou TDEE 1800 for NFDs sounds reasonable to start.
Try for say 2 weeks and then if necessary, adjust upwards / downwards according to hunger / weight stall.

Lou and Everyone Else :
You have already included activity level in your TDEE so do NOT eat back any exercise cals on NFDs or FDs or you will be eating double

MrsFlorrick · 19/03/2014 17:38

Zed. I am contemplating locking myself in basement. (With choc stash and DHs posh wine).

Hmm Back to clearing up the fish pie rejected by DC as "disgusted". Confused

MrsFlorrick · 19/03/2014 17:41

Megrim. Yes to noise cancelling headphones. My poor head. The screaming screeching and whining. I've only got 2 DC but I'm practically rocking in a corner.

CiderwithBuda · 19/03/2014 18:01

Sympathy to those of you with noisy little ones and ungrateful granny ones. Mine is at the grunting stage. Unless he wants something. Then he can be nice. And is is still only 12 and taller than me. And I'm 5' 7.

Well almost at dinner time! Yay! Survived the day. Dinner is in the oven. Planning on nothing else except water and peppermint tea tonight.

And hoping for a good SV tomorrow.

zedzedzed · 19/03/2014 18:33

www.huffingtonpost.com/literally-darling/i-had-an-eating-disorder-and-didnt-even-realize-it_b_4981477.html?ncid=fcbklnkushpmg00000046

Yes, me too, I realised this years ago but since we have to eat and yet want to be slim, it's hard to find a middle ground and the low fat/diet food misinformation hasn't helped; day from hell aside, 5:2 has broken this cycle for me in a way that nothing else has been able to. Huzzah!

Thanks meg, bcf, cider this too will pass, till then, let there be out of date sambuca and crap cake consumed while hiding in a fishpie-smelling basement wearing headphones waiting for nanny to die/adolescence to hit!

ErrolTheDragon · 19/03/2014 18:57

zed - will your nanny eat things like custard, rice pudding, yogurt? (maybe with fruit pureed in). Those seemed to be the sort of thing that my MIL preferred at an advanced age. Easy to eat, fairly nutritious if they've got eggs/milk in them and they tasted nicer to her than mushed veg and meat/fish.

Brew or Wine to those of you with demanding little ones. The years when they're like this are short but the minutes and hours involved last for aeons.

I've survived that stage (cheated by just having the one I suppose!) and now have a DD who will share her boxed sets of Sherlock when need arises Grin

Think I'll do my second FD tomorrow as DH will need to eat early to get to an evening meeting so easier to feed him separately. And should be ready for it after todays NFD - DH decided to do teriyaki steak, so he cooked that while I did stirfried veg and noodles - one of the meals where the venn diagrams of what he'll eat and what DD will eat happily overlap. He doesn't cook often but it's rather nice frying in tandem. Smile

ErrolTheDragon · 19/03/2014 19:05

zed - having read your link, I now fancy a mini-break in Prague. Grin

I like this line: 'I can no longer allow myself to define my ideal as a number on the scale or on the tag of my jeans; my ideal should be the result of eating nutritious foods I love and exercise that clears my mind and strengthens my muscles' - the writer is fortunate to have realised this in her 20s.

CiderwithBuda · 19/03/2014 19:36

I'm hungry!

DakotaFanny · 19/03/2014 19:57

Ah, evidently some tough days had by all today! (((((Everyone))))) crap one myself too with daughter and her shit friends. Consoled myself by going for a wuick scan of our new local supermarket.... Guess what I bought???

You know those individual wrapped biscuits you get with coffee in cafés? Kind of caramel and lushtastic? You got it? Well, they only make that in spread form, like caramel Nutella!!!!!! Oh my very god! Snapped that right up and will be enjoying it tomorrow after my very HANGRY (but successful) fast day today.

Bring on Thursday! Hope you are all feeling less gloomy too. Xx

5:2 does make me feel, albeit only 5 FDs in, like I am in control of something in my life. Loving it!

ErrolTheDragon · 19/03/2014 19:58

I'm hungry!
it's ok to be hungry - when you know you can eat tomorrow (after your weigh-in of course). Try some hot water - odd as it may seem it can sit better than something flavoured (may not work for you but no harm in trying that one!)

ErrolTheDragon · 19/03/2014 20:01

Dakota - you mean Lotus spread? TBH I was a little disappointed, but it was nice on toast with sliced banana on top.

DakotaFanny · 19/03/2014 20:11

Don't tell me that Errol....I will be going to bed to dream of it! Mind you, at over 2000 calls per jar, I kind of hope it's not too good!!

CiderwithBuda · 19/03/2014 20:17

I have resisted that Lotus spread!

Errol - I am consoling myself that being hungry is a good thing! And I can be not hungry tomorrow! I can't do warm water - ugh. Although maybe with lemon. I'll make it. Have come this far. I know I will regret it if I have something now. Might have a very early night though!

beanandspud · 19/03/2014 20:40

Just about made it to the end of FD. Sending Wine and Cake to all of you in need.

I think I will come in at just over 500cals which I think is ok, looking forward to eating tomorrow. Succumbed to a very odd combination of 10cal jelly and l/f laughing cow cheese triangles to get rid of the munchies - virtually no nutritional value but better than biscuits and it worked.

DakotaFanny · 19/03/2014 20:49

rushes off to make super jelly which she had completely forgotten about thanks beanandspud!

IPokedABadgerWithASpoon · 19/03/2014 20:49

Think I might come in slightly over too - one of the kids I work with had baked us a cake (a huge, massive thing for them) and so I couldn't not have any, had the smallest slice I could get away with though and obviously told them it was the best cake I've ever had!

CiderwithBuda · 19/03/2014 21:12

I had a slice of ham. Not the end of the world. Off to bed now to avoid temptation! Night all.

MazzleDazzle · 19/03/2014 21:14

Managed to come in at 300 below TDEE as I've been busy all day and not that hungry. Well, that's a lie...I was hungry for junk and I'm trying to avoid eating crap through the week. BUT when baking with the kids I completely forgot this and mindlessly ate 7 mini eggs and a chocolate krispie! Before I realised what I was doing they were gone.

Yes Eagle - I also get a weight 'hike' at my totm then a drop the week after.

Hang in there Miffy, one day soon you'll hope on an it'll be 10 something!

Octopus I was, and sometimes still am, the same. Work out your TDEE, weigh everything and log everything on MFP. I find skipping breakfast and trying not to snack helps.

Poor you Runlike! Hope you are all on the mend. And that's rotten about your job. Can they do that?

Overtiredmum - what sort or parents side with their SIL at the expense of their grandchildren? {{hugs}}

Wombles - coping mechanism for comfort eating: talk to someone, let it all out, cry if you have to and hopefully you have someone lovely to hug!

BC at out HIIT class we often have to hop repeatedly on one foot on our toes! I value my ankles and knees far too much and always put my heel fully on the floor.

Mrs F I am the worst mother possible when I am sleep deprived. At times I even think If social services could see me now... But no matter what, at bedtime I read them a story every night, tell them I love them and sing a bedtime song. Even on the shittiest mother days, at least I can say I've done that! It will get easier and every mother can empathise Flowers. My sis swears by the noise cancelling headphones by the way Grin. In my darkest hours I've been known to reach for the wine or even my contraband diazepam...for the sake of the kids if nothing else!