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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

The 5:2 thread number 37 - Having our cake (batter off the spoon: 15 calories per lick - thanks MFP!) and eating it too (tomorrow).

999 replies

BetsyBell · 22/01/2014 16:25

The continuing thread for those of us following the 5:2 fast or other forms of fasting such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012 and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat normally - or approximately your Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE - see explanation below). 4:3 is the same except you fast on 3 days in the week. Alternate-day fasting (ADF) is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. 16:8 is another form where you stick to only eating in an 8 hour window each day, therefore fasting for 16 hours each day.

By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.

You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.

WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website or app many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a TDEE calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

NFD = Non fast day

NSV/LSV = Non scale victory/Lifestyle (change) victory

Michael Mosley has a website to accompany his book on the subject. Please go check it out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

Lurkers and new starters: please just jump in and post - you'll find a lot of support here and we’re a friendly bunch.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

Other Threads
All our previous threads can be found by browsing through the fasting section of the site.

Tips and Links : Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the tips and links that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

Inspirational: eatriskier’s thread has some lovely inspiring stories which are worth checking out if you want some motivation to get started or keep going through a plateau. Please add your own too.

Recipes: frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

Exercise: bigchocfrenzy has an incredibly informative and helpful exercise and fitness thread for discussion and advice on combining 5:2 with an exercise regime.

Maintaining: If you've been at this a while and are moving on to maintaining your goal weight, there is a thread here to discuss that.

Other links
This is a BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon - link to that programme here.

This Telegraph article comments on the diet and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley himself, very informative if you're just starting.

This blog post gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

This link nicely demonstrates that there are many body ‘right’ body shapes and types, because what we are actually aiming for is low body fat for fitness and health.

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Something to consider if you are currently your ideal BMI: this article appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI. (Though anecdotal evidence from these long-running threads may suggest otherwise…)

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful.

A HUGE THANK YOU to Greeneggsandnicht for putting together all this info and resources into one concise OP text, much appreciated by so many 5:2ers!

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this way of life!

OP posts:
curveballs · 24/01/2014 13:02

At only three weeks in to 5:2, it is really too soon to say whether this will work for me. But I am 99% sure it will.

So all I can really share in answer to the recent question is my history.

I was thin in my childhood and teenage years and very athletic. As I hit my twenties I stopped my sports, and started drinking and eating the wrong things. Throughout the whole of my twenties and into my thirties I did not care enough to really do anything about it. I told myself I wouldn't be able to lose the weight because I have pcos and because at times I have the contraceptive implant, which I believed stopped you losing weight, and in all honesty I didn't really try anything so I had no evidence that I wouldn't lose weight, I just thought my metabolism must be rubbish.

Last year I got married, and I had a huge goal - to fit into my sisters wedding dress. I started exercising, I did diet chef and it worked. When wedding was postponed I slacked off, stopped exercise and ate what I wanted and the weight came back. For my actual wedding in sept I went on Atkins and exercised and again lost the weight. As soon as my wedding was over I went back to old habits and here I am.

I have proved to myself twice that I am physically capable of losing the weight, but I also love my treats occasionally, and I especially love a drink.

This is about sustainability for me and the long term. I know I can succeed and then maintain by doing this, and I can still have a drink and a treat. Three weeks in, 6 lb lost. A long way to go, but I will do it. It's my 35th birthday next week - it would be great to spend the second half of my thirties slimmer and healthier!

BsshBossh · 24/01/2014 13:03

TimeToPassGo counting WW points is the same as counting calories isn't it (basically) so carry on :) Out of interest what's the maximum points allowed on normal WW and how many points are you allowing yourself on a) FDs and b) NFDs?

CinammonGirl · 24/01/2014 13:15

Weigh day here - I've lost 3lbs - that means a loss of 7lbs in two weeks! Am over the moon, this is definitely the way forward for me :) Good luck to today's fasters and if its an NFD, enjoy!

Breadandwine · 24/01/2014 13:28

zzz I went back into my blog and found this, from Thursday 29th March 2012:

"I'm halfway through the 5th week of my 'Eating less' (or Calorie Restriction) programme and I'm happy to say I feel great!
I've lost about 3 pounds - and I could lose more if I wanted to.
ATM, I'm sticking to eating half of what I used to eat, 2 days a week. I've also cut down my daily food intake by 10% - mainly because, after the eating less days, I just seemed to be eating too much - or piling too much food on my plate.
So this means I'm eating 80% of what I used to."

At this stage I didn't realise I had any weight to lose - I'd been brainwashed by WW that my weight should be 10.10, but I eventually went down to 9.2 or thereabouts - so I was just doing it for the health benefits.

Being 'one of those annoying blokes' as I think laska called us, I've always found weightloss easy. But, for anyone not losing, it will work - you just have to stick to it.

If anyone wants to look at the rest of my story (and there's a lot of it!), it's here.

TimeToPassGo · 24/01/2014 13:35

Yes Bsssh I think so - just easier for me to manage than calories, I found calories a pain in the ass to figure out, even with MFP. My biggest problem was just eating whatever rubbish I wanted on NFDs and WWs makes me more mindful of that. I still have 2-3 days a week where I eat well beyond my points (as many as 30-40 points when my daily allowance is 21).

As for points - I am doing the older Discovery Plan (the one before ProPoints). On FDs at the minute I have 14ish points which is more like 7-800 cals so I won't be getting the full fasting benefits BUT I have lost 9lbs in 2.5 weeks so it's working for me! I have stopped bingeing on NFDs and rarely snack now (my evening treat is a skinny decaff latte). I also eat far more veg and far fewer carbs. I'm feeling so much better already - think my body was totally toxic in the run up to Christmas with all the junk food and evening munching.

TalkinPeace · 24/01/2014 13:40

MESSAGE FOR ALL NEWCOMERS HAVING PLATEAUS / HUNGER URGES
do, please read through the Tips and Hints thread
we built it up last year, popping any really good ideas over there so that they did not get lost in the big threads (which moved a lot slower then than they do now)

Important ones

  • drink a pint of water before every meal or whenever you think you are hungry
  • on a fast day, delay eating as long as you can
  • eat only at meal times, no snacking ever, ever, ever
  • sit up straight or stand when typing - you burn lots more calories
  • exercise will tone up under the flab so that the butterfly that appears from the caterpillar is already lean and mean
  • clench pelvic floor at least 20 times a day - men and women

but please, please, please
read the tips and hints as they are a mine of good ideas

zedzedzed · 24/01/2014 13:44

Many thanks mrs f time to breadand curve ravenous almost bssh and all I guess if these stories show us newbies/lurkers (yes, we can see you!) anything, it's how different everybody's reason for being here is, their journey's vary but the common thread (!) is that you all feel better and thinner than you did and also feel you'll continue with this wol indefinitely.

Now that is properly inspiring.

NON losers...it seems there's light at the end of the chubby tunnel!

LilyJoAndMe · 24/01/2014 13:46

Hi All,
Well it's good to catch up on the news here. Loved reading your story Breadandwine . And all the exercise stuff you told me last week really helped me a lot this week.
Personally, I've had a weird week in terms of weight-loss . After my week-end of good eating and staying just under my NFD calories ( honest ) and then my 1st FD on Monday I'd put on 1kg - 2lbs or so !
I was really fed up ( no pun intended Confused) about it . But I remembered all the stuff I'd read here about such things and it helped me to stay focused.
Also, I really wanted to do exercise because long-term I'm convinced it'll be good for my aging- process. And this I did without panicking about my non SV.
I was also really busy with my work so that helped me head-wise. Smile
So - today - first time for a while that I've had some time to myself and TaDa... Lost the extra 1kg.
Back to 72kg and hoping for more soon.

BsshBossh · 24/01/2014 13:46

TimeToPassGo well done!

TalkinPeace · 24/01/2014 13:55

curveballs
your story is very common
what is happening is that those strict diets are not retraining your brain to eat within the limits of what you need

as ToffeeSponge has found, the freedom of the splurge day offsets much of the greed of the normal days and makes the fast days rattle past
its about teaching your brain that snacks are no longer needed, that skipping meals is fine and that the odd bit of hunger is actually good for you
at which point the ghrelin, leptin and insulin systems work with you to stay healthy

zedzedzed · 24/01/2014 14:03

My favourite FD dinner so far, simple but really tasty (you can omit the philly and save 50cals or the oil and save 120 but bleuch!) Also a great NFD lunch.

Peppery Smoked Salmon and Balsamic Glazed Salad

Wild Rocket-40 g
Raw Leaf Spinach/watercress-30 g
Red Pepper-12 g
Onions,5 thin slices
Good 4u Peppery Lentil Pea & Bean Shoots-10 g
Cherry Tomatoes-6
Cucumber, unpeeled-30 g

Philadelphia Light Soft Cheese-30 g (on the side)
Sliced Smoked Salmon-100 g

Dress all with:
Extra Virgin Olive Oil-3 tsp
Balsamic Glaze-15 ml
Sea salt and cracked pepper.

TOTAL CALS: 455

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage · 24/01/2014 14:04

curveballs - I also did diet chef and lost about a stone but I stopped as the food just wasn't nice enough to continue and I got fed up of not being able to cook proper food for me. Reading your post has made me realise I am enjoying "treats" much more than previously. I had some toblerone yesterday and it was divine. Pre 5:2 I would have eaten loads and barely tasted it.

My appetite is smaller, which can be gutting at times, but I have to think of the greater good - health. DH and I used to think nothing of having a big bag of nice crisps at the weekend but now I haven't bought any for weeks. I was going to text DH to get some - so happy at no longer being over weight I thought I would have a treat - but I didn't as I know crisps set off the munchies, food shouldn't be a reward and there are better things to have which will be a treat - a piece of nice home made bread, a piece of lovely cheese, etc etc.

zedzedzed · 24/01/2014 14:12

Yeah toffee like now, as it's my totm I'm allowing myself wee sweet treats I'd normally not have (4 giant chocolate buttons just now...yum) but before, the whole bag would've been down my gullet and I wouldn't have even tasted them. But because of the FD yesterday, when I REALLY wanted them, it has made me really savour them now.

mscnile · 24/01/2014 14:16

Hi guys! Having a rather indulgent totm NFD here too zzz(might have something to do with the Wine last night too...) still, that's the beauty of this WOE right? Grin

congrats to losers, don't give up if you're stuck on a plateau and go for it bssh!

ELR · 24/01/2014 14:30

Afternoon alll, sorry haven't caught up but will do so in a minute. Just reporting a Ns victory, cancelled the rip off chiropractor, went to pilates this and finally went and did my blood tests!! So more a life style victory but a victory none the less! So thanks to everyone for your words of support and sympathy. Xxx

MakeTeaNotWar · 24/01/2014 14:32

Hmm I started 5:2 a fortnight ago and had my 4th fast day yesterday - and I've put on a pound Sad How does that happen? I def kept to around the 500 cal mark on fast days but on my NFD I did have a pizza night out with some friends....feeling quite disheartened as the FDs were tough but I've got nothing to show for it

DorisAllTheDay · 24/01/2014 14:40

I also did DietChef, curveballs and Toffee. It didn't work for me at all, as I didn't like the food so I kept sneaking extras. And it was very expensive.

I did 5:2 for the first week of January, then switched to 4:3 and I'm over-the-moon chuffed to have lost 11 pounds so far. The first half stone was the weight I put on through Christmas and New Year overeating on a massive scale, so it was probably easy to lose, but even so I'm delighted. One of the reasons I decided to have a couple of weeks on 4:3 is that I'm away with work from Sunday till Tuesday and I'll probably be going over TDEE for three consecutive days, so I'm bound to gain something, hopefully not too much. I just hope it doesn't mean I lose momentum, and after controlling what I'm eating and drinking so carefully so far this month I'm a bit panicked about not being able to calorie-count everything I put in my mouth. Still, this is a WOL, right, not a diet where every day counts? So three days is pretty insignificant really. I might need reminding of that when I get back!

zed it's fantastic that you can eat four chocolate buttons and not polish of the lot. That's what I'd like to be able to do, eventually. Sadly I'm of the once-I've-started-I-can't-stop persuasion. I'm very inspired to think this WOL might be able to help me change that.

The other thing I've noticed is that I'm not spending nearly as much on food and drink! Doing 4:3 has saved me a packet, which is always good in January.

almostthereagain · 24/01/2014 15:12

Good girl ELRWink Now I really have to go next week to keep my end of the bargain!
What are all you NFDers treating yourselves to tonight? Have got the friday feeling & need inspiration as don't know what I fancy & not sure whether to take the opportunity to go light as dh is away.
Well done doris fab loss, Tea I was looking at cal counts for Pizza Express & was Shock Don't lose heart, keep the faith, you'll get thereSmile

Southeastdweller · 24/01/2014 15:26

My God, there's so many bakeries here in York! Induldged quite a bit already and I think I'll close the kitchen early today in anticipation of breakfast at Betty's tomorrow.

Hope everyone enjoys their weekends Smile.

MorrisZapp · 24/01/2014 15:27

I LOVE YORK

LilyJoAndMe · 24/01/2014 15:28

I know how you feel MakeTeaNotWar .
I was so sick about gaining 2lbs after all the efforts I was making. In the past I've read people's posts when they've said that sort of thing and I've often wondered if they've been doing something wrong. Well, I knwo I didn't this week. I was following all the advice I'd read on these threads and I ate - not too much - not too little and up went the scales !

Well they've come down now - but just to what I was last week - so I lost the 2lbs again. To be honest today I feel really hungry but I'm on a NFD so I'm just aware of it and still using MFP to count calories and not overdo things.

I'm aimining to stay the course at the moment and not panic . I've often done that in the past so thanks to all who post when things are not going as they'd hope it to. You're posts are a big help to me. And fingers crossed for us all eh .

RavenousRunner · 24/01/2014 15:50

Sometimes calorie counting is a real blessing. Got dragged to Paul for lunch, panicked as I think of sandwiches as being calorie bombs for very little satisfaction, finally gave up and had my favourite fromage rosette - baguette with butter, salami and gherkins. Figured it was about 600 calories, but lovely MFP says 284! That could be wrong, but I suppose there's very little meat in it, no mayo, it's a little baguette - maybe it's right.

Chinese for dinner so I need to save every calorie I can. I won't weigh myself tomorrow as the salt is going to kill me.

MrsFlorrick · 24/01/2014 16:14

Bit of an unexpected NsV to report Grin

Was looking for something to wear for tomorrow - need to be smart so my usual wouldn't do. All my smart (as in serious) clothes are from long before DC and I have yet to look ok it them. As in no muffin top etc. they sort of fitted but with a muffin.

Grabbed an old size 10 jigsaw wool houndstooth skirt and put it on expecting awful muffin and having to work through a massive pile of "no".

It fitted perfectly!!! Loose around the lower part of my waist which has been the worst place of lard accumulation. ShockShock I was amazed! I am in fact still staggered! Shock and its TOMT so bloated. Shock

So I had a quick measure and around the belly button which has been the sticky out part of my tummy after DC were born. it now measures the same as my proper waist just above Shock
And GrinGrinGrin

And again to those of you losing slowly or not yet. Listen to TIP! And look at your TDEE on NFD. If you over eat on NFD it will affect your loss. Also TOMT can play havoc with a gain of several lbs. we all know what it's like Wink

BiscuitBribery · 24/01/2014 16:21

Really interesting reading today, really encouraging! I'd imagine that the majority of us will have our slumps in SV's at some point but it must be very disconcerting to have it right at the beginning.
I'm taking mental notes of everything, esp in preparation for my first weigh in next week!

Have put in my food for today including dinner and I'm pleasantly surprised, I have 750 left over to take me to my TDEE (2288 thank god Wink ). I aim to reach 2000 on NFD's to avoid going too low, does that sound about right? So about 450 to go... but I'm not hungry! This was not the problem I thought I'd be having! Grin

Woah MrsF!! Fantastic, well done!

graceholl · 24/01/2014 16:21

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