The 5:2 thread number 37 - Having our cake (batter off the spoon: 15 calories per lick - thanks MFP!) and eating it too (tomorrow).

[BetsyBell]

The continuing thread for those of us following the 5:2 fast or other forms of fasting such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012 and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat normally - or approximately your Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE - see explanation below). 4:3 is the same except you fast on 3 days in the week. Alternate-day fasting (ADF) is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. 16:8 is another form where you stick to only eating in an 8 hour window each day, therefore fasting for 16 hours each day.

By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.

You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.

WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website or app many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a TDEE calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

NFD = Non fast day

NSV/LSV = Non scale victory/Lifestyle (change) victory

Michael Mosley has a website to accompany his book on the subject. Please go check it out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

Lurkers and new starters: please just jump in and post - you'll find a lot of support here and we’re a friendly bunch.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

Other Threads
All our previous threads can be found by browsing through the fasting section of the site.

Tips and Links : Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the tips and links that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

Inspirational: eatriskier’s thread has some lovely inspiring stories which are worth checking out if you want some motivation to get started or keep going through a plateau. Please add your own too.

Recipes: frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

Exercise: bigchocfrenzy has an incredibly informative and helpful exercise and fitness thread for discussion and advice on combining 5:2 with an exercise regime.

Maintaining: If you've been at this a while and are moving on to maintaining your goal weight, there is a thread here to discuss that.

Other links
This is a BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon - link to that programme here.

This Telegraph article comments on the diet and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley himself, very informative if you're just starting.

This blog post gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

This link nicely demonstrates that there are many body ‘right’ body shapes and types, because what we are actually aiming for is low body fat for fitness and health.

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Something to consider if you are currently your ideal BMI: this article appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI. (Though anecdotal evidence from these long-running threads may suggest otherwise…)

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful.

A HUGE THANK YOU to Greeneggsandnicht for putting together all this info and resources into one concise OP text, much appreciated by so many 5:2ers!

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this way of life!

Yum, carrot cake iced with cream cheese from Gail's for breakfast .

ZZZ good idea as usual! I went from 165 to 158 in my first month (June last year), and a lot of that was serious flab round my middle. I also very rarely achieved a 'proper' FD - aimed for 600 as I am quite a bit taller/more active than the 'average' woman, and probably usually came in at a more like 8-900. I was down to 145 by the end of September, now 147 and trying again to get down to my ultimate goal of 140. I hadn't done much dieting before though, I had always tried to lose weight through exercise alone, so I think my metabolism was pretty healthy. I can imagine it may take time for it to recover if you've had a lot of ups and downs, so worth while sticking with it even if no immediate losses.

DH joined me in July I think, he lost a stone pretty quickly despite never making it below 1000 calories I think. For him calorie counting was a huge revelation, he had no idea what was in anything and would put away 1000 in what he thought was a light lunch. Also once you're used to counting calories on the FDs it is very hard to shovel food in on NFDs without mentally thinking 'Bloody hell, that's a LOT of food! What am I doing?'

I say this having just eaten four pieces of chocolate from the advent calendar one of the clerks gave me - but then shamefacedly entered it into MFP and found that's only 80 calories. Phew.

Please can I ask for some advice? I've been trying this woe for 3 weeks: 2FD per week and I'm not sure it's for me.

FDs are manageable although I have at least a few moments each time where I feel miserable and wonder why I am bothering. On NFDs, however, I am eating as though I have never seem food before and I am thinking about food more than ever before: what I can eat on a FD; what I'm craving on a NFD.

Is this just the novelty? Will it wear off? Or is it blood sugar spikes or something? I'm trying the woe mainly for health benefits although I also have 3 or 4 pounds to lose. It doesn't feel healthy though because I'm not making heathy choices and I feel uncomfortably preoccupied by food.

Anyone been here and got over it? Perhaps it just isn't for me.

Thanks!

Maybe it depends how much you have to lose and how messed up your metabolism is from previous 'diets'? zedzed I think you've hit the nail on the head for many non-losers or difficult-to-losers. Apart from a 4 month plateau pre-5:2 when I was just doing daily calorie counting, I've pretty much lost consistently over the last two years of trying; and the weight has come off really well on 5:2. But I put this down to the fact that prior to 2012 I have never dieted (aside from a few months on Atkins and Paul McKenna). I am not a classic yo-yo dieter and as a result I believe that my metabolism is very "strong".

Steala give it another few months and you should find your appetite self-regulates. Mine did as did alot of other long-termers. Nowadays my eyes are bigger than my stomach and I feel really rotten if I overeat.

woodchick - I find my Wii isn't great for weighing me, it just isn't accurate enough when you have no idea what your clothes weigh. Have you got access to another pair of scales?

BsshBossh - Well done! Next week you will be below goal .

ErrolTheDragon - I have bought some Chia Seeds but haven't had them yet. I read about them in my magazine and will try and find the info if you'd like. I bought them in Holland and Barratt.

Steala - hang in there (I must come up with a different phrase ).I was useless when I started in August and asked a stupid amount of questions but everyone was so kind and it does come. I used to think about food constantly, hated myself for eating, thought I was winning the battle when I did eat (to hurt those who didn't feed me as a child) but it was only me who I was hurting and yet would happily cook cakes, etc for the children and not be bothered about eating them.

Now I think about food in a I am really looking forward to my home made soup or plate of baked fish and salad later way and don't have the panic I used to have. Last night I felt like chocolate. Pre 5:2 I would immediately think I am not hungry, it is emotional and then think I can't eat it, hate myself and then eat it just to show them . Last night I wanted some chocolate to enjoy, felt a little peckish after fish and salad and 5 chips and still have calories left so I had some. Lovely.

Hope that helps you.

Today I have just made lasagne (DS2 will love me) and apple and blackberry pie (all the kids will love me )

Thanks everyone.

No turkeybaby it's not me, I still haven't weighed (I started on Jan 6th and plan not to weigh before Feb 3rd or perhaps 17th-4-6wks after start date).

I'm just noticing a few new people who're new like me saying they're struggling/not losing and it must be so soul-destroying for them.

Lovely to hear from strugglers who're now losers!

Another non-yoyo dieter here.

Prior to getting fat after GD during my pregnancies, I have never been over weight, always slim and have never dieted.

This diet larks was therefor new to me. Prior to 5:2, I tried various diets/woe's along my journey. Some were too brutal, others effective but too restrictive to carry on with for more than a matter of months.

The two that struck me as healthiest and most effective have been 5:2 and low carb. Low carb was too restrictive for me. I did it for 6 months last year. I did lose but not an amazing amount but it seriously re educated my sweet tooth and helped me see how bad white carb is for you and how it keeps you hungry and keeps you eating. By white carb I'm referring mostly to pasta and bread. Less so potato (other than chips) as the odd baked spud isn't harmful.

5:2 for me is fully sustainable.

In the beginning I didn't even think I would manage a FD with 500 cals. The initial FD was a bit of a struggle because I was obsessing over food intake and overthinking it. And I was wanting to snack far too much (cling onto comforts).

6 months in and I don't even have to plan for an FD. It just happens. I no longer feel worried about not having breakfast or even lunch on an FD as long as I have a decent dinner (or decent lunch and small dinner).

If I do suddenly find myself very hungry, I will eat something and not worry about having gone over 500. I often end up at 600 or 700 and it still works fine.

My body is used to fasting and no longer screams for food every second of my day.

If I'm ill or very tired, I may well bin a FD or have a mini fast. No point in punishing yourself or pushing it when you're not well.

I did have a looooong stall which was broken with a sudden loss of 2lbs last week.

I am only 2 lbs away from goal and BMi of under 21 so my losses will come extremely slowly at this stage.

And that's fine.
I can cheerfully say I'd continue to 5:2 forever to stay at a healthy weight.

Having had GD and two babies well over 9lbs (nearly 10lbs), has upped my type 2 diabetes risk from almost nothing to 30%!,,
I have no family history of it, I've never previously been over weight and no other contributing factors. Just the GD and large babies. So with such a high risk, I am determined to keep it in check.
Not just to stay healthy and for my DC and DH but also because I have twice felt what it's like to essentially be diabetic. It's horrendous. Muddled head, blood sugar highs and lows. Constant unrelenting hunger (thanks insulin!), numb hands and feet, eye sight deteriorating slightly (didn't wear glasses pre DC but I do now!)

So no way do I want to go there again.

Many of the other diets I tried did make me feel sad about "having to eat this way forever". Because they cut out food groups, you had "special" food or tiny tiny portions all the time. Quite depressing.

But this has been a revelation to me. Just a day or two a week where you don't eat much and the rest of the time you eat more or less how you please. No special food, no cutting out go food groups nothing banned.

I mean look at Breadandwine. He is always having bread and well wine! So living it up without the consequences of health problems from unrestricted eating.

I know it can seem tough in the beginning because 500 cals seems low if you like me, could put away 3500+ in a day. Your body will get used to it quickly. You've gotten it used to having large amounts so it needs time to adjust.

Once you're in the swing of things (only takes a matter of a few weeks), you won't mourn or miss the extra food on fast days. Instead look forward to planned feasts on NFDs.

Bssh. Drool at carrot cake. Not having it though. I'm saving myself for cheeeeeeeeeeeese later and some

I'm with toffee on prediction of you below goal next week.

I'm getting my party hat ready!

Just marking my place really. Was away with work this week so I've only managed one FD. I dont need to weigh myself - I can tell by how tight my trousers feel.

zedzed I'm still pondering over your question about those who are struggling to lose weight. Ravenous, MrsF and I have all responded that a) no real problems losing weight b) never really dieted before so believe we have strong metabolisms.

so question for those struggling to lose weight what's your dieting history and do you think your metabolism has been negatively affected?

I'm with toffee on prediction of you below goal next week Oh God the pressure!!! .

Morning all

Weigh-in Friday: -3lbs!!! total loss now -5lbs since pre-Christmas weigh-in. Really pleased, as though getting used to FDs has been challenging, I certainly haven't been deprived and have enjoyed plenty of good meals the rest of the time.

Well done to Bssh, you are an inspiration

Steala I struggle on NFDs too, as I really want to go overboard. But I've tracked a few NFDs on MFP, which is helping me be more mindful of snacking. I've also read a few books about healthy eating becoming a Skinny Bitch, which is giving me further reasons to avoid the rubbish my body doesn't need. If you try and make your meals a bit more indulgent/luxury/something you really like, then you might be able to look forward to lunch/dinner, rather than reaching for a snack. I've not yet experienced this 'even on NFDs I am not bothered about breakfast' phenomenon, I am always straight on the juice, with a big portion of rice and veg to follow!

Took the plunge and got rid of my scales, once a week at my work Fat Club from now on!

don'tbe Woo-hoo-to-you!

My cousin, whom I persuaded to do this with me as she has almost 100lbs of back-to-back pregnancies weight to lose too, has not lost a thing in the last 3 weeks and even GAINED half a lb...until today when she's just told me she's dropped over 3lbs!

She doesn't know why, but it was her totm before and she'd not been eating up near her TDEE until this week as she was used to low cal diets and scared of all the fat possibilities! Yay for Zed's cousin!

She's also dumped the scales and will weigh in 4wks from now, after 2nd FD and after next totm, to keep everything the same, really hoping the pattern is downwards for her.

I think you are onto something re previous dieting history. My mum (serial dieter) has also found she doesn't lose if she eats to TDEE on NFD. She loses & gains same few lbs. She has found not eating back exercise cals, slightly lower TDEE & def eating nutritious, lo carb foods as much as poss makes a difference.
Well done Bsh really encouraging to all & sooo good for you!
Hope you see a change soon hopeful

Weigh on this morning and am
9 st 6.5lbs.

Start weight 9 st 13 lbs
Week one. 9 st 10 lbs
Week two. 9 st 7 lbs
( bit if a blow out weekend)
Week three. 9 st 6.5 lbs

Many of the other diets I tried did make me feel sad about "having to eat this way forever". Because they cut out food groups, you had "special" food or tiny tiny portions all the time. Quite depressing mrsf

Exactly. Even if, God forbid, I don't lose or lose at a snails pace, I'm not gaining any more, that much I know without weighing, and this is the ONLY 'diet' I've ever tried where I can genuinely face and even look forward to enjoying this woe for life. No sweat.

It's at least stopped me gaining and helped me regain control. I will never try a fad diet again as I refuse to exclude whole food groups again or eat f-all or tasteless mush.

But hopefully I'll be back here in a couple of weeks doing a woo-hoo dance for a healthy loss!

Interesting, almost. I know there's a school of thought (called Eat More To Weigh Less) that believes metabolism can be repaired but participants need to be brave enough to put on a little weight first: to "repair metabolism" you increase your daily calories by 100 cals a week and go up in 100 calorie increments every few weeks until you hit TDEE. Weight may go up but then settles down as body realises you are not starving it and eventually weight goes back down again as you slowly reduce the calories. If you are brave enough to go through this process then odds are you will be able to lose weight on just 10% reduction of TDEE (which for most is a vast improvement to how little they were eating before). MyFitnessPal forum has a very good EM2WL chat group.

Well done all fasters and losers! 1lb gone here today, down to a 14 year low.

Yes bsssh that's what I believe too. Really well put.

I think being SUCH a serial yo-yo-er that this is kinda what I need to do. I've survived on under 500 cals regularly, under 1000cals very often, no carbs for a year and binged my ass off in between.

I think my bod clings onto everything I give it. So eating even close to my TDEE has been a scary challenge. Another reason why I'm delaying weighing; I want to give it a chance to repair, settle, calm. Then rev up and start burning.

I agree bsh I wish mum would try but understand why she's not keen. Def makes me keen to eat sensibly & set my children, esp dd a good example. Poor mum has yo yo'd all her adult life.

Hi everyone! So great to hear everyone's stories and achievements! hugely impressive and motivational

DS is off school ill today and we had very little sleep so a mini fast is off the cards. Had a yummy egg mayo salad though so keeping it healthy and light in prep for tonight's feast.

And now I've forgotten everything I was going to say...!

Marking place :)

Just read the last few posts but so true about the normal diet / food groups being banned thing. With my WW / 5:2 hybrid I have much more flexibility mentally than I had just doing WW before. So yesterday I had lovely bread with thick butter. The WW part of my brain though 'Arrrgghhh, you can't have all that butter!' but the 5:2 part of my brain thought 'Yes I can. I don't have it every day but I'm having it now so I'm going to enjoy it!' But WW overall is positive because it stops me bingeing on NFDs. (I know a lot of you use TDEE instead, I just found it harder to get head around so that's why I stick to points instead - because I'm familiar with them.)