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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

The 5:2 thread number 37 - Having our cake (batter off the spoon: 15 calories per lick - thanks MFP!) and eating it too (tomorrow).

999 replies

BetsyBell · 22/01/2014 16:25

The continuing thread for those of us following the 5:2 fast or other forms of fasting such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012 and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat normally - or approximately your Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE - see explanation below). 4:3 is the same except you fast on 3 days in the week. Alternate-day fasting (ADF) is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. 16:8 is another form where you stick to only eating in an 8 hour window each day, therefore fasting for 16 hours each day.

By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.

You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.

WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website or app many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a TDEE calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

NFD = Non fast day

NSV/LSV = Non scale victory/Lifestyle (change) victory

Michael Mosley has a website to accompany his book on the subject. Please go check it out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

Lurkers and new starters: please just jump in and post - you'll find a lot of support here and we’re a friendly bunch.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

Other Threads
All our previous threads can be found by browsing through the fasting section of the site.

Tips and Links : Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the tips and links that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

Inspirational: eatriskier’s thread has some lovely inspiring stories which are worth checking out if you want some motivation to get started or keep going through a plateau. Please add your own too.

Recipes: frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

Exercise: bigchocfrenzy has an incredibly informative and helpful exercise and fitness thread for discussion and advice on combining 5:2 with an exercise regime.

Maintaining: If you've been at this a while and are moving on to maintaining your goal weight, there is a thread here to discuss that.

Other links
This is a BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon - link to that programme here.

This Telegraph article comments on the diet and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley himself, very informative if you're just starting.

This blog post gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

This link nicely demonstrates that there are many body ‘right’ body shapes and types, because what we are actually aiming for is low body fat for fitness and health.

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Something to consider if you are currently your ideal BMI: this article appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI. (Though anecdotal evidence from these long-running threads may suggest otherwise…)

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful.

A HUGE THANK YOU to Greeneggsandnicht for putting together all this info and resources into one concise OP text, much appreciated by so many 5:2ers!

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this way of life!

OP posts:
MazzleDazzle · 29/01/2014 19:56

Hi all! Sorry to hear about your MIL Mrs F. This will be a tough time for you and your family. We're all here for you ((((( )))))

Made it to class today, but heart wasn't in it. Ah well, at least I went!

NFD at 20% under TDEE. Things have been unbelievably hectic here. Should really get off of MN, get kids to bed and TIDY UP!

LilyJoAndMe · 29/01/2014 20:57

Sorry about what's happening for your family Mrs. F. Sending you lors of courage.

LilyJoAndMe · 29/01/2014 20:58

lots of courage

MazzleDazzle · 29/01/2014 21:20

Got kids to bed, but I'm back on here and house is still a tip! Blush

Had a terrible sleep last night. Was still awake at 3am with DD2! How I used to stay up partying until that time is beyond me. I've been a bit ratty today, but nothing compared to DD2 who has been a horror! Then she threw-up everywhere. Looks like she didn't escape the bug after all Sad. Boiler still not fixed and today we had no running water at all. Didn't realise until today how completely dependent we are on water, especially with 3 small DC to look after and my husband away.

I tried to eat cheese today. I say tried, because both times, I just didn't enjoy it, whereas usually I can't get enough of it! My taste buds are definitely changing. FD tomorrow. Going to try to make it to Friday lunch time on LO. I get my measurements taken again on Friday morning so I'm trying to make every minute between now and then count!

Breadandwine · 29/01/2014 21:21

Huge sympathies to you, MrsF and for others with sick relatives.

I lifted this from the Tips and Links thread, which might be relevant:

"Fasting and cancer.

This thread on the 52fastdiet forum contains some serious research into the subject couched in layman's terms:

www.52fastdiet.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=3940

It's well worth checking out the rest of his blog. (Although he's into selling stuff, his research and his willingness to share are to be applauded.)

How Fasting Fights Cancer:

www.marksdailyapple.com/fasting-cancer/#axzz2XRlpFRfu "

Hope this helps!

B&W

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage · 29/01/2014 21:25

I just ate a piece of cheese and salami melted on the pizza [bummer]

I am so tired. Really down. Can not wait to eat tomorrow. We are having prawns and rice. Will have a fruity teacake at some point too. I have a box of chocolates unopened from Christmas that smiles at me every morning but haven't opened them as having been wanting them. Maybe I will have them when I am 10 something.

Felix90 · 29/01/2014 21:44

Expected to want to eat the whole house today after my further fast day yesterday but I've still got 500 cals left and I dunno what to do! Only just had my tea and going to bed soon. Does it matter this one time? I'm doing my second fd tomorrow - will it affect this at all?

BsshBossh · 29/01/2014 22:12

Oh my word, my sympathies MrsF Thanks. What a terrible thing.

BsshBossh · 29/01/2014 22:26

Haven't been on here much due to being ill - first a cold then a bit of D&V and couldn't stomach reading about you lot eating! At the same time I've had to look after ill DD too. She's five and today it reached crunch point for her when I was depearate for a lie down/sleep and she started crying, "But you're my mummy, you're supposed to be looking after me!" She's had to witness me vomiting all day. Poor love. Hopefully DH can take tomorrow off to look after us both.

FD for me tomorrow. Shouldn't be too difficult.

Jobyloo · 29/01/2014 22:38

Hi guys, not been around for the last few days but after catching up on here it's put my woes of the last 48hrs into perspective! Mrs F thinking of you and your fil, hopefully he'll get the info and treatment plan sorted quickly.

Hope you feel better soon Bssh!

Well done on the SV's biscuits and grace

Had to be a bit creative with FD's this week. Doing 2 back to back. First time for doing this, so will see how it goes. Managed 518cals today and a sneaky dip in to the golden syrup tin, tomorrow planning on LOF until dinner and will avoid the syrup tin!

postmanpatscat · 29/01/2014 22:41

Get well soon bssh

DorisAllTheDay · 29/01/2014 22:47

Thinking of you and your family, MrsF. What a blow. And also thinking of those of you with poorly children - Mazzle, BashBossh and anyone else. Best wishes for speedy recoveries to all. I'm glad to hear you're fully over your bug, Whenshewasbad, and your sticky toffee pudding sounds just wonderful.

Toffee, I'm sorry to hear you're tired and down. I hope you get a good night's sleep and things look better in the morning. If all else fails, I hope the fruity teacake cheers you up tomorrow. I luffs teacake. I put it in a category with buns. Food of the gods.

I made 24 hours on my LOF but decided at about 8.00 that I was cold and hungry and wanted soup. So I had some. But I'm pleased with that, even though I didn't make the 36 hour LOF. I think the soup was about 200 calories, and I had my 50 calories-worth of drinks during the day, so a pretty successful FD. I can't believe that just four weeks ago 500 calories seemed an impossibly tiny amount to eat in a day, and now I'm perfectly fine with 250. Tomorrow I'd like to come in at about 20% under TDEE if I can, and then another FD on Friday. The plan is to weigh myself on Saturday morning, rather than do it now when I'm still quite bloated and feeling the effects of three days of indulgence.

BigChocFrenzy · 29/01/2014 23:02

toffee Absolutely every driver has little scrapes and bumps. Just forgive yourself and move forward. Let the insurers sort it out. It is good to hear you have a nice understanding DH now.
Well done for not doing a deep dive into your delicious cakes for comfort.
Flowers
MrsF Sorry to hear the bad news about your FIL, also how dependent your MIL is on him.
Flowers
Sadly, after 80, people increasingly start to have serious ailments, as the body and its defence systems wear out. Sounds like both PILs will need a massive amount of family support, which takes some organising.
Hopefully ypur DH will step up and not regard this as normal duties for a sahm DW.

HandMini ^^ Grin
OK, 5:2 is so flexible and allows one to be foolish on occasion. Just try to make it an exception on FDs, as your calories then should be concentrated on providing nutrients for the day.
We don't do perfection here, but we try for gradual healthy lifestyle improvements.
However, I read Dr Varady allows junk food FDs on her ADF / EOD, because she says it increases diet compliance. Oh well, different limits, like for parenting !
Hmm

hopefulgum · 29/01/2014 23:05

Bssh, sorry to hear you are unwell. I have a five year old son who said much the same thing last time I was sick with a vomitting bug. Now if I tell him I am feeling unwell, he always says,"Oh no! It is not the throw ups is it?"

MrsF, I am very sorry to hear about your FIL. I know it is a tough time, the uncertainty, plus worrying about your MIL. My DH's father is ill with skin cancer and undergoing treatment. Unfortunately, it is really just a measure to give him a little extra time, we have been told it is not curable. All this kicked off a year ago and then shortly after his first round of radiotherapy my MIL had a stroke!

It has been heart-breaking to see FIL and MIL really change and age over the past year. They are farmers and now the farm must be sold and they need to move closer to us. However MIL and FIL just can't seem to make decisions anymore about anything, so helping them decide what to do is nearly impossible. DH wants them to come and live next door to us, but they still want to be independent, despite the fact that they are not doing very well at looking after themselves. They miss so many meals because they can't be bothered, and just 2 days ago FIL had a fall and MIL had to get him off the floor and call an ambulance (and she is tiny,and shouldn't have been lifting him). They live about 40 minutes from the hospital and an hour from where we live. Such a nightmare, and into the mix, my DH has 3 sisters,all of whom have differing opinions about how to help but all live far away...

I am sorry, I didn't mean to unload here!

I hope you can have some positive news about treatment, MrsF, I know how worrying this time is.

On a brighter note, DH and I had a lovely lunch out yesterday. Once he'd poured me a big glass of wine I didn't give my TDEE a second thought, and had delicious pork belly for lunch followed by a gorgeous lemon meringue dessert, and some dark chocolate. However, I did get home and start to feel a bit yuck, and then skipped dinner because I really didn't want anymore food. A bit of a NSV I think.

It is back to work for me today - after 6 weeks off - gah! I am also having a FD. It is relatively easy to do at work as I am busy, and I have a nice light soup to take along in case I feel the need to eat.

It is weigh in day tomorrow, but if I haven't lost I will be ok as I have had a couple of indulgent days. I just hope I have maintained rather than gained....

ErrolTheDragon · 29/01/2014 23:05

Sympathy to all of you with the vom bug in your house (esp Mazzle with no water... blimey). Only DH had it this year and he was very good and quarantined himself.

Anyone else watch the Horizon 'Fat vs Sugar' - not really that surprising I think .... that sticky toffee pud is probably the perfect storm combo.

BigChocFrenzy · 29/01/2014 23:11

Oh, poor you, Bssh. What an ordeal: feeling so rotten and having to be mummy still (hopefully DH can stay home and have a lovely time wiping up after you both)

Fingers crossed you both have happy tums again asap.
Big (({hugs})) and Flowers to you and DD.

BigChocFrenzy · 29/01/2014 23:13

Just noticed, Mazzle, that you are coping with a vomiting DD and no water.

Big (({hugs})) and Flowers to you two as well and to everyone else poorly or wiping up after someone else.

zedzedzed · 29/01/2014 23:35

If you're cross that you're not losing quickly or have stalled, I think the maths here is quite interesting:
the5-2dietbook.com/forums/discussion/59/unrealistic-expectations-and-sticking-points/p1

FD here tomorrow, the cupcakes are away.

Peplum41 · 30/01/2014 01:24

Mrsf Sad to hear your news.

hopeful, yours too, all this distance between families makes hard times tough.

bsshbossh and mazzle tummies. Yes water is an amazing substance, easily taken for granted in this country, especially when too much of it falls from thepo sky. As I non mum (not by choice) I do wonder how you manage sick kids when you're sick yourselves. Blee.

whenshewasbad I never really looked at cals til I started this. Plus, my maths is bad, so I tend to under count. I'm astounded at sticky toffee pud being so high. That's a third of my TDEE, half of it with the custard!

felix don't eat those 500 cals if you don't want them. Why do I never have a spare 500 cals?

Peplum41 · 30/01/2014 01:29

Oh dear rambling mad post, full of errors and a spare * at the end. That's what you get for having yogurt smears all over your phone.

Can't even blame it on "dcs".

LilyJoAndMe · 30/01/2014 06:26

Good morning and all the best to the poorly people and those with poorly children too. And Mazzle - I hope you'll get your water back today.
Up again to exercise.

I'm really surprised that I'm beginning to enjoy my morning routines now- I used to hate getting up - now I'm actually enjoying exercising !! Smile

A FD for me here- so good luck to everyone else who's on one. Thinking about you...

zedzedzed · 30/01/2014 07:36

Oh poor Bssh and poor Little Bssh...your house is a house of plague and stench and we all know we're next; The Winter Voms have arrived. Bleurgh. Poor mazzle too and all the other poorlies/waterless/bun regret/car-crash/non-losers today.

hopeful andmrs f spoke to my Aunty (who as I said was diagnosed with cervical cancer last week) she's 100s of miles away in the North of Scotland, and I just wish I could be there to hug her, yeah the distance is a real problem at times like this. (((more hugs)))

FD here, just as well as home baking put me only 160cals under my TDEE, first time I've allowed myself to get that close, I had in mind the 'shaking things up' I've heard tell of...and that I really fancied more cakies and would dream of them all FD long if I didn't have another one.

Feeling slightly nervous now though, as the MFP application has crashed!!!!

LO fast till 8pm so no need for counting, but really hope it'll be fixed soon. I plan to have a mini-fast tomorrow as yesterday was so high and the maths worry me (see my earlier post for some sobering 5:2 arithmetic re banking a deficit)

Good luck all FD-ers and all munchers; enjoy!

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage · 30/01/2014 07:38

Morning all. Smile

Bssh Sad Hope you and LittleBssh feel better very soon and your DH is able to stay at home to care for you both.

Felix - it is probably okay but I am finding if I am not eating enough I am not losing weight. I can remember suggestions of adding olive oil to my food to bump up the calories without wanting to eat when I am not hungry. Other people will be along who can answer much better than me.

Doris - DH toasted me a teacake and it wasn't burnt so it was lovely. Yum.

Thanks BigChcoFrenzy. I was feeling a bit low about it, and the drive to school yesterday was not fun, but I think it will get better each day. I have no option but to drive on that road twice a day but I am giving the car in front lots of room and always putting my hand break on. I had been holding the car on the clutch as had hassle for taking too long to get the hand break off and move but no more.

hopefulgum - your in laws could live next door and have independence. Tell them you will just be there if they need you or sell it as you want them close for whatever reason you can come up with.

I was up 4lbs this morning. Trying not to be too upset and telling myself I did one FD and one where I went over (yesterday) and I am sure it takes a few days for over eating and fasting to show on the scales. I will eat today, fast tomorrow then weigh on Saturday and see where we are.

Hoping to sell three big bags of clothes today. There is a facility to sell them by weight so I am hoping for at least £8. I have no clue what the rate is so have just picked that out of the air after my friend said I would be lucky to get a fiver for the kids old uniform. Nothing wrong with it but they changed schools.

Good luck to everyone fasting. Enjoy the food for those who are eating. And HUGE get well vibes for all those who are suffering.

Ladyfarquhar · 30/01/2014 08:04

Good morning, I am just after a bit of advice. Sorry in advance if it has been asked before but these are big threads to read through. I am three weeks in to 5:2, finding fast days relatively easy, I am fasting from 6pm evening before until 5/6pm the next day then having a 400 calorie meal, with hot drinks throughout the day, a couple with milk the rest fruit tea's.

NF days are mostly 1300/1500 calories, occasionally a little over at a weekend.

First week lost 4lb
second week no loss
third week 2lb on?

Is this normal, I am trying to be patient and really want to stick to 5:2. i don't have a huge amount to lose, I'm 9st 7lb and want to get to 8st 7 / 10lb.

Do I just have to be patient, or am I doing something wrong?

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage · 30/01/2014 08:41

LadyF. You aren't doing anything wrong. I think we've all had ups and downs. I've had weight on and no idea why and then lost when I thought I'd put on or stay the same.

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