Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

The 5:2 thread number 37 - Having our cake (batter off the spoon: 15 calories per lick - thanks MFP!) and eating it too (tomorrow).

999 replies

BetsyBell · 22/01/2014 16:25

The continuing thread for those of us following the 5:2 fast or other forms of fasting such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012 and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat normally - or approximately your Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE - see explanation below). 4:3 is the same except you fast on 3 days in the week. Alternate-day fasting (ADF) is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. 16:8 is another form where you stick to only eating in an 8 hour window each day, therefore fasting for 16 hours each day.

By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.

You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.

WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website or app many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a TDEE calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

NFD = Non fast day

NSV/LSV = Non scale victory/Lifestyle (change) victory

Michael Mosley has a website to accompany his book on the subject. Please go check it out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

Lurkers and new starters: please just jump in and post - you'll find a lot of support here and we’re a friendly bunch.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

Other Threads
All our previous threads can be found by browsing through the fasting section of the site.

Tips and Links : Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the tips and links that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

Inspirational: eatriskier’s thread has some lovely inspiring stories which are worth checking out if you want some motivation to get started or keep going through a plateau. Please add your own too.

Recipes: frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

Exercise: bigchocfrenzy has an incredibly informative and helpful exercise and fitness thread for discussion and advice on combining 5:2 with an exercise regime.

Maintaining: If you've been at this a while and are moving on to maintaining your goal weight, there is a thread here to discuss that.

Other links
This is a BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon - link to that programme here.

This Telegraph article comments on the diet and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley himself, very informative if you're just starting.

This blog post gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

This link nicely demonstrates that there are many body ‘right’ body shapes and types, because what we are actually aiming for is low body fat for fitness and health.

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Something to consider if you are currently your ideal BMI: this article appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI. (Though anecdotal evidence from these long-running threads may suggest otherwise…)

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful.

A HUGE THANK YOU to Greeneggsandnicht for putting together all this info and resources into one concise OP text, much appreciated by so many 5:2ers!

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this way of life!

OP posts:
WhenSheWasBadSheWasExhausted · 24/01/2014 22:52

Loving all the clothes talk. Especially the baggy clothes make you look bigger bit - it's given me a bit of a kick up the arse. I'm wearing jeans that are falling off my hips and I have massive hips.

I need to have a rummage in my wardrobe to find some slimmer ones. Like zed I have some thinner jeans lurking in there - my aim is to get into a size 12 black pair from Warehouse. Bought pre pregnancy at a skinny point in my life, if I can get into those I will be a happy lady.

bumble good post, everyone says to drink loads of water on fast days I know I don't drink enough. Next fast day I'm going to have loads - thanks for the advice.

BsshBossh · 24/01/2014 22:53

I follow BigChoc's weigh-in rules except I weigh twice: first thing (after wee) then I help DD get dressed then 15 or 20 mins later (perhaps only a few sips of water) weigh again (after another wee). The difference in weights is intetesting. Eg last week first weigh in straight out of bed was 127.4 lbs, second weigh in 20 mins later after walking around and another wee was 126.6; this morning the first-thing-out-of-bed-and-first-wee weigh in was 126.4 and second weigh in was 125.8.

I realise this makes me look completely mad but even weekly weighers can be as obsessed as daily weighers!

graceholl · 25/01/2014 00:25

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

hopefulgum · 25/01/2014 00:56

Bssh, I have noticed that my second morning weigh in is lower too.Yesterday's first (heartbreaking) weigh-in was 76.5 and then a bit later it was 76.1, which was better, but still UP from last week's weigh-in. Sad

I have just read through since my last post and there's been so much wonderful advice about stalled weight loss.Thanks everyone.

I know that the scale should not make me feel bad, but I just want to see a consistent down-ward trajectory. However the NSV keep on coming, and that is something I must keep reminding myself about.

Yesterday's NSV: I went into town, ran some errands and whilst feeling quite hungry, was fine with waiting until after 2 to have lunch back at home, where I could eat something healthy (instead of stopping somewhere for hot chips). I also went to the charity shop and tried on some clothes, and was pleasantly surprised at how they looked on me. I found a beautiful Monsoon silk dress, a 14, which fit, but was rather too snug on the belly, so I put it back (it was pricey at $15), but felt good knowing I wouldn't have done up the zip on it a month a go.

I do love charity shops - inexpensive, money goes to a good cause, and its a form of recycling. I also buy a bit from Ebay, but I am a bit of a clothes-a-holic.

I just got asked to up my work hours from 0.8 to full time. I said yes as we can use the money and DS is full-time at school now, but I have to admit one of the motivations was that I would need new clothes for work Hmm But then I started to feel a bit anxious about whether I could keep up the 5:2 whilst under a lot of stress at work. I reassured myself, that of course I could, it's a much easier diet than any others I have done.

Which leads me to the whole Yo-yo dieting thing. Perhaps that is why my weight loss isn't large or steady? I always thought of myself as a "healthy" eater, but the truth is I have always been trying to lose weight, have never really been happy with my body (except perhaps the time I became very ill and lost a lot of weight and got down to 120lbs). My parents do not have a healthy attitude toward food and the way I grew up around food was confusing. My mother was always scathing about 'fat" people, who had no control over their gluttony, but she would reward us kids with special treats of food. There was always cake,biscuits,pies,bread,baking for us to eat. And my father is Italian, so although we had very healthy dinners, Meditteranean style, celebrations were huge meals with several courses where we'd stuff ourselves and feel awful later.

So I started dieting when I was about 10 after nasty quips from both parents about how "chubby" I was getting. I have done all sorts of diets at least once: WW, Low carb, Atkins, Whole 30, Paleo, low calorie deprivation....

I think maybe this time doing the calorie counting on NFD's is a good thing, but I will stop eating back the exercise deficit and see if that makes a difference.

I hope 5:2 can heal some of the damage I've done over all these years of dieting. I am well sick of it, and just want to feel well, healthy and good in my body.

MrsF, great to hear about getting that size 10 skirt on so easily. All the long-term 5:2ers are such an inspiration, it really helps to hear your stories and to have a team that cheers one on....Thanks

BigChocFrenzy · 25/01/2014 03:06

hopeful
It is best NOT to use the method of eating back exercise calories, because

  • people tend to over-estimate time, intensity and hence calories burned and
  • it can be complicated if you do different types of exercise and
  • exercise is not a simple calories in / calories out, because it depends on your individual body composition and how it processes them.

Better method:

  • Calculate the TDEE for your exercise level
  • Average this for your NFDs

Note: TDEE calculations are an average over the whole population.
Some people - frequent dieter / going through the menopause / longterm steroids user / thyroid problems etc - may well have a lower TDEE than a healthy 1st time dieter of the same gender, age, weight & exercise level.

Note: Increasing your exercise intensity is probably more important than duration when it comes to changing body composition or kickstarting weight loss. HIIT combines particularly well with 5:2/IF.

If your waist is reducing, that is very good for your health, so just be patient and the weight loss will come.

However, if you think you have lost neither weight nor inches or that it is too slow, then try reducing TDEE by 10%. But, do return to full TDEE if this makes you hungry on NFDs.

PavlovsCats · 25/01/2014 08:27

Quick post as I really should be getting ready to go to work but just have to post as I'm so excited! I've just weighed myself and have lost 7lb! I have a lot to lose but I'm so happy its coming off and in all honesty haven't found it as hard as I thought it might be remind me of that in a few weeks!

So thank you for both bringing this to my attention and by being such s great support, I may not post everyday but I do read through. Good luck to everyone today Grin

MazzleDazzle · 25/01/2014 08:28

Lost 2lbs this week!

I have been very strict calorie wise, but have had a takeaway and some chocolate.

Here is a run down of my week incase anyone is interested...

Sat: 16:8 (20% under TDEE)
Sun: 16:8 (TDEE)
Mon: FD (less than 100 cals)
Tues: 16:8 (20% under TDEE)
Wed: 16:8 (20% under TDEE)
Thurs: TDEE
Fri: FD (less than 650 cals)

And 3 hours of work outs, plus daily mini exercise routine (running up and down stairs, squats and plank).

I have now lost a total of 15lbs in the last 2 months and according to my BMI I am no longer obese. My stomach feels flatter, my skin softer and I can comfortably fit into all of my clothes.

I think that what has really made this week a success is not eating until 12pm everyday and not eating anything after 8pm. Managed to stick to this on all but one of my NFDs.

Good luck to everyone who is fasting today! For anyone who is, like me, on a NFD, then enjoy it!

frenchfancy · 25/01/2014 08:39

pavlov Grin Grin great result.

You too Mazzle

Brilliant post bumble

Thanks to a 5:2 thread last year I bought a load of clothes of e-bay for my new size. I've never looked back. My clothes are much better quality than before, I only buy decent stuff off e-bay as I know it will last. And because it was cheap I don't worry about the dry clean only labels, so it means I wear things like coast dresses others may only save for special occasions but I wear them on a daily basis. So far nothing has been ruined in the machine, even my whistles jumper that DH put in on a 60C white wash.

LilyJoAndMe · 25/01/2014 09:02

Well done Pavlov and Mazzle. What a great start to your day !
Very interesting to read about the double weigh- ins of a morning and the clothes solutions.
Just done 20 mins exercise here and loved thinking about the chrysalis preparing to turn into a butterfly- lovely image before summer dresses.
I do have a question though. Yesterday someone wrote that exercise causes water- retention. Is this true ?

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage · 25/01/2014 09:02

Bumblebeejumble - Great post. I know if it was just starting or was struggling it would have inspired me to start or carry on.

BigChocFrenzy - It feels so great to have the tape measure confirm I really am losing and things are getting smaller and not just lighter. I didn't even think about weighing myself this morning and am not worried at all about a few days of not weighing at all.

hopefulgum - have you thought about measuring yourself as a barometer rather than weighing on the scales? It is almost more thrilling to see a cm decrease than a pound one as I think muscle weighs more (not that I have any yet). That doesn't sound right does it. A bit like what weighs more - a pound of feathers or a pound of concrete.

BsshBossh - I have been known to weigh myself twice one after the other when I haven't liked the first result. Almost every time the weights are the same.

PavlovsCat - WELL DONE!! That is brilliant. Keep going.

MazzleDazzle - Brilliant!! You have lost in 2 months what I took 5 months to do. I'll be coming to you for tips now Grin. I have lost 2 stone since July 2012 (doing stuff on and off) and have one more stone to go though part of me thinks that would be too much Confused.

NSV - I was wearing skinny jeans from New Look size 14 yesterday and I got them off without undoing the zip or button. Does that mean I am ready to try a 12? I can't imagine it is as they are snug on my legs. Actually, I just pulled them to try and there is at least an inch of give Shock. Roll on pay day, I might get new jeans!!

Not2bObvious · 25/01/2014 09:26

Hi all,
Great posts over the last day or so, just reading and contemplating my poa for the next week. I'm down about 1 pound in the last week, but that's on my old scales which is on carpet and probably a bit out. Next Friday I'll weigh with my new super duper scales on a flat surface and hopefully I'll see the same or a loss. Changes for this week are I am keeping away from chocolate as it's affecting my, ahem, movementsConfused Also no wine Mon-Thurs and moving down to low alcohol wine, less head/less cals.
Doing a job for a friend this morning, then in work this avo and for a few hours tomorrow. Can't think about it too much or the stress comes flooding back - but I won't be eating/drinking the stress anymore. Hope everyone has a lovely day

woodchuck · 25/01/2014 09:47

Thanks for replying frenchfancy . I have not been exercising at all for the last couple of weeks as I was prepping for a big intrview yesterday. Maybe that's the problem, and I will definitely try to up , y activity levels. Also think that my timings may be wrong. I begin my FD after dinner, say 6pm on Wednesday. I then have a total fast until lunchtime on Thursday, having only herbal tea and lots of water. For lunch I have either a salad or fresh soup, qnd may have an apple or some veggie sticks to snack on. For dinner I may have a poached egg and a slice of wholemeal toast with a bit of salad or baked beans, or maybe soup. Then, as my fast has technically finished at 6pm, I may have a cuppa or some supper later if I feel hungry. On NFD I am eating fewer carbs, more fruit and veg and not having alcohol at all during the week.

I did take all my measurements when I started, but only plan to measure once a month and weigh once a week. I know I am not thinner as I was very uncomfortable in my suit trousers yesterday!

eatriskier I am weighing in my underwear on wii balance board on wood floor. I thought it may be beneficial to chart my progress automatically. Are wii boards known to be unreliable? Maybe I should seek out some proper scales. Does anyone have the body fatmeasuring scales? Are they any good?

Waswondering · 25/01/2014 09:53

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DorisAllTheDay · 25/01/2014 11:05

Fantastic, Pavlov and Mazzle. Those are great results. And congratulations on your NSV, Toffee.

I had another successful FD yesterday - I noticed I was hungry but didn't obsess about it, and I had my evening meal at about 5.45. The last two FDs I've been full of energy in the evening and had to go for long walks as I couldn't calm down enough to sleep. I've been finding that after FDs, getting to sleep is really hard, because although I'm tired, it's as if I've had too much caffeine and it's whizzing through my system. I read on the tips page that this is a 'hunter-gatherer' instinct - back in the day if you were hungry then your body went on alert so that you could instantly spring up and catch your prey if anything happened along! Which explains it... but doesn't help much. Any tips for getting into the sleep zone after FDs? I don't have any caffeinated drinks on FDs, at all.

hopefulgum · 25/01/2014 11:11

waswondering, I am in the same boat and from what everyone has written, it may just be a blimp and next week you will have lost? It seems there are so many variables, and if you are doing the right thing re: tdee on NFD's I can't see why you wouldn't lose eventually?

I have just completed my second fast day for the week. I spent most of the day at the beach with friends,and was able to say 'no thankyou" to all offers of food. DH was there too and managed to do it too. It is my first ever fast day that I didn't eat anything until dinner time! I can honestly say,though feeling hungry from time to time, it passed and I felt fine. I made a beef rib dish, slow cooked in tomato,onion and garlic, which was delicious. I put the recipe into MFP and it came in at 540 cals per 300gram serve. I had a bit less than 300grams and added some roasted corgette. Yum, and was absolutely stuffed by the end of it.

I am well pleased with myself that FD felt easy today. I also managed a 20 minute run on the beach, no stopping! I will sleep well tonight. Grin

Mrsfluff · 25/01/2014 11:17

Morning, I'm more of a littley than a poster, but I thought I'd pop on and say hello Smile

I'm approaching the end of week 3 (official weigh day for me is Monday) and I'm enjoying it so far. I've learnt it's ok to be hungry & tbh, hunger is not something I'm usually that well acquainted with Blush

I'll go and have a mooch through the thread now..........

frenchfancy · 25/01/2014 11:18

woodchuck yes your timings are wrong. If you are having Tuesday as a fast day then you stop eating Monday evening, have just 500 cals for Tuesday and you fast doesn't finish until breakfast on Wednesday morning. You also do not need the apple and veg sticks to snack on. You are supposed to be fasting not snacking. Give your digestion a rest.

LilyJoAndMe · 25/01/2014 11:20

Great stuff Hopeful. Doris
I have a herbal tea and prefer lime tea before bed.

BigChocFrenzy · 25/01/2014 11:22

Excellent results, Pavlov, Mazzle

LilyJo If you are just starting exercise, your body may retain about 1-4 lb water to repair the muscle fibres. This water is normally released again over the next couple of weeks, as your body adjusts to exercise.
As you continue exercising, you may continue to retain and release water, usually smaller amounts than initially.
Exercise, especially HIIT, can help improve your body shape and accelerate fat loss, so you see the inches go. Exercise is good for your health.

Megrim · 25/01/2014 11:24

I like frenchfancy's idea of buying some nice designer clobber off eBay, hmmmm might have a bit of a nosey this afternoon. I too have a DH that seems to think that everything goes in a 60 degree wash.

Bumblebeejumble · 25/01/2014 11:28

Morning! NFD here. I had a fry up for breakfast and I don't feel guilty! I I won't eat until dinnertime now, and there'll be veggies aplenty, so won't be over TDEE unless I get carried away with the wine.

And it's not raining! Long walk with DC planned, everyone wearing wellies so we can jump in the puddles. I've got one of those backpacks for carrying the toddler, that must help burn off a few more calories over 3-4 miles, right? Big NSV for me: my calves are (just) small enough to fit in my wellies!!! Last year, I couldn't get them on. I hope some of the other lots-to-lose posters know what I mean...

Well done on all the people who've been posting fabulous SVs and NSVs. And to all those who are struggling a bit, just know that everyone struggles a bit sometimes. There's no 'right' way to do this WOE, everyone approaches it a bit differently. You can't 'fail' a FD, you just move it to another day! And 6:1 still has health advantages too, so don't feel bad if you don't manage 2 fasts in a week.

I learned a lot from posters like toffee, BigChoc and TalkInPeace (and loads more!), and zed has great recipes for making meals taste good. Reading through old threads helps me enormously, both from good (inspirational) and bad (learning experiences, solidarity when I'm having a bad day) posts, so thanks again everyone.

Doris, I had trouble sleeping on FDs until I moved my meal to about 8PM. That means I'm going to bed on a full tummy, which seems to placate my inner cavewoman a bit.

BigChocFrenzy · 25/01/2014 11:32

waswondering We all lose at different rates, but some factors can slow you down:
-Have you been eating back exercise calories ? (folk usually over-estimate these)
-Have you dieted a lot before ?

  • The TDEE calculated for you may be too high for your particular bod.
-If you sometimes eat food someone else cooks (not ready meals with calorie count) they may be adding a lot of oil/cream/ butter you can't detect.
DorisAllTheDay · 25/01/2014 11:59

Thanks, bumblebee, I'll try that - if I can make myself wait till 8! I'll also investigate herbal tea, lilyjo.

I'm another of the charity shop afficionados. I've lost a lot of weight in the last couple of years (about 5 stone) and although I've taken a lot of stuff to the charity shop, I still have five bags-worth waiting to be taken. I think somewhere in the back of my mind I can't quite believe the weight is off for good (I've yo-yo dieted for 40 years or so, since childhood) and want my big clothes there in case I need them again. I've bought lots of good stuff in the past few months in charity shops, though, and can never go past one now without looking in.

hopefulgum, I think your day at the beach (lucky you!) saying no thank you to offers of food and not eating till dinner time is a definite NSV. Congratulations.

BigChocFrenzy · 25/01/2014 12:07

MakeTea If you weigh after a big NFD supper, obviously there is a lot of heavy food and liquid still in your system. That should go by the next day.

Anyone who is not losing after the first couple of weeks should start to monitor exactly what they eat on NFDs - you need to average TDEE on the NFDs or you won't have the calorie deficit. Most folk became overweight by not being able to judge by eye the amount of food for their TDEE.
Do check for hidden calories in drinks or sauces etc.
Do not snack between meals.

On FDs, stop eating after supper the evening before, then roughly 500 cals on the FD, then break your fast the next morning.

Hope the scales soon move for you. Good luck.

BiscuitBribery · 25/01/2014 12:09

Bumblebee I always carry my toddler in slings and it definitely makes a difference! I've only used the pram with her a handful of times and have found big improvements on my core strength, which continues to improve as she gets heavier Grin

I have a gammon joint roasting in honey which I'm going to have with some cheese and a mountain of salad. It smells too good!