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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

The 5:2 thread number 37 - Having our cake (batter off the spoon: 15 calories per lick - thanks MFP!) and eating it too (tomorrow).

999 replies

BetsyBell · 22/01/2014 16:25

The continuing thread for those of us following the 5:2 fast or other forms of fasting such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012 and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat normally - or approximately your Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE - see explanation below). 4:3 is the same except you fast on 3 days in the week. Alternate-day fasting (ADF) is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. 16:8 is another form where you stick to only eating in an 8 hour window each day, therefore fasting for 16 hours each day.

By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.

You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.

WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website or app many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a TDEE calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

NFD = Non fast day

NSV/LSV = Non scale victory/Lifestyle (change) victory

Michael Mosley has a website to accompany his book on the subject. Please go check it out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

Lurkers and new starters: please just jump in and post - you'll find a lot of support here and we’re a friendly bunch.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

Other Threads
All our previous threads can be found by browsing through the fasting section of the site.

Tips and Links : Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the tips and links that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

Inspirational: eatriskier’s thread has some lovely inspiring stories which are worth checking out if you want some motivation to get started or keep going through a plateau. Please add your own too.

Recipes: frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

Exercise: bigchocfrenzy has an incredibly informative and helpful exercise and fitness thread for discussion and advice on combining 5:2 with an exercise regime.

Maintaining: If you've been at this a while and are moving on to maintaining your goal weight, there is a thread here to discuss that.

Other links
This is a BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon - link to that programme here.

This Telegraph article comments on the diet and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley himself, very informative if you're just starting.

This blog post gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

This link nicely demonstrates that there are many body ‘right’ body shapes and types, because what we are actually aiming for is low body fat for fitness and health.

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Something to consider if you are currently your ideal BMI: this article appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI. (Though anecdotal evidence from these long-running threads may suggest otherwise…)

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful.

A HUGE THANK YOU to Greeneggsandnicht for putting together all this info and resources into one concise OP text, much appreciated by so many 5:2ers!

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this way of life!

OP posts:
MrsFlorrick · 24/01/2014 19:52

Toffee. Ill fitting clothes make you look bigger. Too tight with muffin is bad and so is mega baggy.

If eBay terrifies you, then charity shop items you can't wear and buy from charity shops in correct size.

It makes sense. And you find great stuff in them. I spent my late teens right through to mid twenties dressed almost exclusively in charity shop buys. Amazing what you can pick up.

I'd avoid shoes though. But that's a personal thing with me.

Dresses and jackets in particular are often great condition ie only worn a couple of times.

Happy hunting Grin

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage · 24/01/2014 19:58

I could do with some tops. I will have a wear everything in my wardrobe few weeks and see what looks good and what doesn't and then go from there.

Wizziee · 24/01/2014 20:04

Hello, I'm new but I have to say thank you for all your amazing advice in the last 11 days since I started (5:2 and lurking!) 4 FDs done, yesterday was by far the easiest, day 3 was really tough. Sneaky mid week weight peek and 6lbs off so far. More importantly, feeling really good. Combining with Shred 3 days a week and even my boobs are shrinking hooray.

MrsFlorrick · 24/01/2014 20:06

If you can't find anything in charity shops how about primark. If you're after basic everyday tops that's an option.

It's hard to advise as I don't know your style and what type of outfits you like to wear.

What size are you after? I'm asking because I have a load of size 14 stuff which is going to make its way to chaity shops soon but I'd send it to you if you wanted it.

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage · 24/01/2014 20:07

Bummer

I am overweight by 0.1 in BMI even though my healthy weight range is 8 stone 3lbs - 11 stone 2lbs and I am 11 stone 2lbs. Confused.

How on Earth can I be expected to be 8 stone 3lbs?? No way would that be good for me.

TalkinPeace · 24/01/2014 20:08

)))))) Primark (((((((
and all other cheap clothes : made with semi slave labour and stolen water
please, either buy second hand or decent quality, but the "disposable" clothes are destroying the planet
( green rant over )

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage · 24/01/2014 20:15

Actually one of my favourite jumpers is from Primark. I bought DS a zip up jumper at the same time and his cost more than mine! I don't go into town much where Primark is but I will have a look properly next time I go. Thank you very much for the offer MrsF but will see what I have and what I need before I actually look into getting more clothes. TBH I don't know what size I am atm as my wardrobe has clothes from 12-18 in my wardrobe and all fit to varying degrees.Confused.

mscnile · 24/01/2014 20:16

Wowsers MrsF well done you!
Toffee that's a wide range, are you similar height to me (5'7)? I'm currently 10st10 and can't envisage ever being below 10, mind you, it's the first time I've been below 11 as an adult!
Zzz that salad sounds yum, love a nice salad, I make a nice bacon and egg one - healthy full English!
Hi to everyone old and new, far too many to mention but have a. Gayest weekend all of you!
I've eaten loads today, but will make up for it in the next week and will run tomorrow.

MrsFlorrick · 24/01/2014 20:17

Sorry TIP! Blush Not a customer myself but I was trying to help Toffee with an interim wardrobe without bankruptcy.

zedzedzed · 24/01/2014 20:19

toffee what a brilliant dilemma to have!

I'd eBay the expensive bits, carboot the bulk and charity shop the rest, put all the profits towards one really lovely, beautifully fitted luxury item; treat yourself, it sure sounds like you deserve it.

I have the opposite dilemma...I'm hanging on to all my skinny clothes... hoping. Have hung Jeans Number 1 on my door so I see them every morning (size 16, then 14, then 12, and finally...one day...The 10s...oh well done indeed Mrs F for the mystical Getting Into 10s again moment!)

Have just weighed out and eaten 50g of pasta for my dinner.This was a scary moment for me as pasta is my trigger food and it's the first I've had since starting this woe. Jesus, it was an amount so small my 2yr old would eat double that easily. But there it is. I'd have eaten 200g in my sleep last month.

I made a really punchy quick sauce for it (garlic, chilli, honey, balsamic glaze, stilton, dijon mustard, coriander YUM!) and I served it with a mahoooosive green salad with pea-shoots, seeds, peppers and olive oil; all in at 592 cals).

Which takes my NFD to 1,500 of my 2,360. There's a dense chocolate mousse in the fridge at 300...dunno...it seems a lot...it makes me anxious when I get right up there...anyone else?

Think I'll wait half an hour and see if I really want it.

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage · 24/01/2014 20:19

Really TiP. Oh heck. I have bought 2 pairs of jeans, a jumper and 2 t-shirts from there for DS and a jumper for me so not too much.

BetsyBell · 24/01/2014 20:20

Some wonderful posts on here today, my cockles are feeling warmed by it all Smile Smile

Definitely second (or third) charity shop donating/shopping.

It can be a bit crushing (and a waste of effort/time) to have your previous favourite pieces sell for 99p. But donating to a charity shop is cleansing and feels good.

Most of my favourite 'new' tiny winter things have come from charity shops, all at a fiver or less each. That's cheaper than horrible primark and if it's survived a few wears and washes from someone else then it's likely good quality too.

Then a few weeks later, when you're down another dress size, you get to return them all again!

OP posts:
MazzleDazzle · 24/01/2014 20:25

Just a quick check-in. Haven't had a chance to catch up on the thread at all Sad.

Was planning on a FD today, but friend invited me round for lunch so came in at 650.

Weigh day tomorrow. I've been really accurate with calorie counting this week and have a deficit of 5000 cals plus 4 workouts that I haven't taken into account in terms of burned cals. Def. lost a pound (I cheated and peeked!) but I'm praying for a 2lb loss tomorrow!

Hopefully I'll get a chance to catch up on the thread good and proper over the weekend!

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage · 24/01/2014 20:26

mscnile - I am 5 foot six.

zedzedzed - I don't really have expensive stuff, nothing designer. After I had DS2 I bought cheapy stuff from supermarkets as I knew the weight needed to come off and then I decided to have less clothes but nicer stuff but even then it is only stuff like M&S, Wallis as our local shopping centre doesn't have many clothes shops. I have a habit of wearing my clothes out as I wear the same stuff over and over though I do have some bits I have hardly worn. I bought a coat from M&S after it was recommended on here and I have realised it was a bit snug before but should be fine now Smile. On the other hand I have a lovely dress that might be a bit big now but will be fine with a belt, actually I have a few days dresses that are the same so I might just buy a belt!

zedzedzed · 24/01/2014 20:31

M&S and Wallis IS expensive stuff! Well, compared to Primark and should be fine if you do sell some bits. I know charity shops always appreciate quality donations from branded shops like M&S.

I'm still in my post preggo uniform; loose dresses over multipack black leggings, knee-highs, great jewelery and big hair (to distract from the arse!)

I dream of jeans and a top...my old uniform. Sigh.

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage · 24/01/2014 20:48

You will be back in your jeans in no time, ZZZ.

Bumblebeejumble · 24/01/2014 21:45

Hello everyone, wanted to weigh in on the difficult first month thing. My first fast day was at the very end of December, and right up to christmas I HATED every moment of my fds. Miserable, cold, horrid headache, glaring at everyone who had food, unable to sleep, etc. I was drinking 3 or 4 white coffees, each with milk and sugar, so had to count out 200 cal, which only left 300 for real food. I lost 1.5 kg in the first week (TOM weight, possibly) which kept me persevering for a bit, even though I didn't lose anything in weeks 2, 3, and 4.

Then, at Christmas (four loooooong weeks in) I suddenly lost 2 more kg. And then the fast I did on Boxing Day was the first that I actually enjoyed. I worked out that for me, drinking a ton of water, and tea with skimmed milk, but no solid food until a no-carb dinner I now genuinely look forward to them, almost as much as my NFDs!

Beginning 1 jan, I stopped eating back exercise cals, unless I'd got like 800 from swimming plus bike ride, in which case I'd eat back maybe 2-300ish. And since then I've lost 4.5 kg. I feel awesome, love the 'thin' feeling the morning after a fast. I weigh daily, and track it on myplate app. The graph is a jagged downward line and that is great! Very motivating.

I had a lot to lose, about 42kg in total (95lbs in old money, I think), so it might not be as fast if you have less to lose.

NSVs include a now-completely-normal blood pressure, a much cheaper supermarket bill, an awareness of relative calorie values, an appreciation of hunger (I.e. Not being scared every single time my tummy even does one rumble) and I now REALLY appreciate my treats!

If you're struggling, I'd humbly suggest sticking with it for 3 or 4 weeks, and ease yourself in by going for 750 or so for first few fasts. Or try 16:8 once a week plus one fast day. Also, counter-intuitively perhaps, I find fast days easier when I'm super busy. Lounging around at home makes the biscuits and lovely lunches just too hard to resist.

Mammoth post over.

craggyhollow · 24/01/2014 21:55

Is exercise a NSV?

Today I ran 4k on the treadmill at the gym, 3k,walk for 2 mins then 1k in 6.30 mins which felt amazingly fast to me (I had an operation on my ankle 2 years ago and have been terrified of running since thwn)

I feel GREAT (if knackered now)

MorrisZapp · 24/01/2014 21:58

Great post Bumble. I'm a few weeks in, still haven't managed a 500 cal fast yet but I'm working on it.

ErrolTheDragon · 24/01/2014 21:59

Jeans... I need to check what I've got, the ones I'm wearing now are loose, have to keep hitching them up, hate belts. Not sure I'm quite ready to get new ones, but when I do not sure what sort - my thighs/calves are more toned but large (esp for my height) - fair bit is muscle but I've frankly got chubby knees (on the inside just above them, urgh) which I'm sceptical about shifting. With the result that I've been stuck on bootlegs as skinnies or leggings are a total no-no, any straight legs I've tried just look meh. Probably if I cared much about style I wouldn't wear jeans.

ErrolTheDragon · 24/01/2014 22:05

Is exercise a NSV?

yours sounds like it to me, craggy. Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 24/01/2014 22:17

Toffee 2 cm off your waist is a wonderful NSV, directly improves your risk factors for many things. Going from daily to weekly weighing is an important emotional one.
You are dancing into the life you are enjoying from now on.
Flowers

Great NSV for you too, MrsF. A nice slim tum again and fitting into your fav glad rags !
Flowers

ELR Good to hear you have had the blood tests and also dumped that chiro leech.

Well done on the exercise, Grace. That will reduce your risk for all sorts of nasties. Do pop in and see us on the 5:2 exercise thread Here and let us know what you are doing. Plenty of advice and support for all fitness levels.

BigChocFrenzy · 24/01/2014 22:29

How to weigh yourself

Your weight has enough variables already. Don't complicate it even more by inconsistent weighing methods. This is the most reliable:

  • First thing in the morning
  • BEFORE drinking or eating anything, even water
  • NAKED in the bathroom
  • AFTER your morning wee and any dump
  • Weigh yourself on decent scales, on a flat floor, without carpet or rug underneath
  • Same day of the week or month, e.g. after your 2nd NFD in that time.
LilyJoAndMe · 24/01/2014 22:35

Well done Craggy on your NSV !

Graceholl, I loved your post. Thanks for reminding me about how my skin is changing and how I feel better in myself. Wow , it's just amazing how I can forget these things simply because I can't see the scales going lower!

I too feel better in my body. But I just loved the way you said it - 'cottage cheese stomachs ' :) and then on a different post , I read 'saddlebags' . These terms really describe the stocks that my poor body is having to hump round each day !

And Bumblebee - yes the supermarket bill is definately cheaper here too :)

ErrolTheDragon · 24/01/2014 22:38

My variation on that is that I always weigh after one cup of tea ... facilitates the 'after' item! And if I need to drink more before weighing (scales are in the bedroom and sometimes DH is still asleep) I keep track and subtract, as per my post this morning when I'd glugged a kilo of water in addition to the standard teacup.

(spot the scientists....)

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