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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

The 5:2 thread number 36 - Fighting (& losing) the Battle of the Bulge? Eating too much junk? 5:2 is a healthy, sustainable way to achieve & maintain your goal weight. Join our friendly support group!

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 14/01/2014 15:27

The continuing thread for those of us following the 5:2 fast or other forms of fasting such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8.
The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012 and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat normally - or approximately your Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE - see explanation below). 4:3 is the same except you fast on 3 days in the week. Alternate-day fasting (ADF) is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. 16:8 is another form where you stick to only eating in an 8 hour window each day, therefore fasting for 16 hours each day.
By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.
You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.
WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.
MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website or app many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.
TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a TDEE calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.
NFD = Non fast day
NSV/LSV = Non scale victory/Lifestyle (change) victory
Michael Mosley has a website to accompany his book on the subject. Please go check it out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!
Lurkers and new starters: please just jump in and post - you'll find a lot of support here and we’re a friendly bunch.
Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:
Other Threads
All our previous threads can be found by browsing through the fasting section of the site.
Tips and Links : Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the tips and links that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!
Inspirational: eatriskier’s thread has some lovely inspiring stories which are worth checking out if you want some motivation to get started or keep going through a plateau. Please add your own too.
Recipes: frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!
Exercise: bigchocfrenzy has an incredibly informative and helpful exercise and fitness thread for discussion and advice on combining 5:2 with an exercise regime.
Maintaining: If you've been at this a while and are moving on to maintaining your goal weight, there is a thread here to discuss that.
Other links
This is a BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon - link to that programme here.
This Telegraph article comments on the diet and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley himself, very informative if you're just starting.
This blog post gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.
This link nicely demonstrates that there are many body ‘right’ body shapes and types, because what we are actually aiming for is low body fat for fitness and health.
A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")
Something to consider if you are currently your ideal BMI: this article appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI. (Though anecdotal evidence from these long-running threads may suggest otherwise…)
A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful.
A HUGE THANK YOU to Greeneggsandnicht for putting together all this info and resources into one concise OP text, much appreciated by so many 5:2ers!
Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this way of life!

OP posts:
WhenSheWasBadSheWasExhausted · 16/01/2014 21:10

shygirlie sorry you didn't lose any weight, maybe just look at this week as a practice run?

I try and eat as late as possible on a fd, so that sounds sensible to me. The gap from 1pm to 8.30 pm would be a bit much for me I think. Once I start eating I get hungry - but I am quite new to fasting.

mscnile · 16/01/2014 21:33

Before I read the thread, I'd like to share a NSV to go with the SV from this morning - went out for an early dinner with friends from work, had two glasses of wine, yummy food, including creme brûlée - which I couldn't finish Shock. This has never happened before. I had saved most of my TDEE calories for the meal but have still come in under TDEE. V happy Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 16/01/2014 21:35

ShyGirlie Your program looks fine.
If you are not starting from a lean weight and not post-meno, not on steroids etc, then the reason for not losing is almost always serious over-eating on NFDs.

The freedom not to calorie count only applies if you can properly estimate the amount of food for your TDEE.
Count calories for the last week and the next, see what you find.

OP posts:
almostthereagain · 16/01/2014 21:59

positively 9 I started about a year ago, lost weight, felt great & was exercising regularly too. I got slack after a summer hol but managed to maintain weight ok (although still had a few lbs to target) I ate badly over Christmas, felt awful & didn't enjoy quite a lot of it. I had been working really hard & just lost my mojo. Was really up for getting back to it but seem to be struggling Confused I am 9.10 now but unfit too. I was around 9.4 -7 but I look & feel much heavier than those few lbs should, must be the lack of exercise. Am hoping to fast mon or tues & thurs. Hope we can spur each other onSmile
Good luck to any fasters tomorrow, those on a fd enjoy!

positively9something · 16/01/2014 22:28

almostthere well done for making it to a comfortable weight. How tall are you? I would be happy to be 9.10 right now, I look quite ok at 9.10 Grin but 9.4 possibly 9stone is my goal.

What was your starting weight last year? Yes we should keep on each others backs Grin I think this thread helped me so much before christmas and I havn't been online much recently so I think thats where I went wrong.

TalkinPeace · 16/01/2014 22:32

mscnile
that is a FABULOUS non scale victory

mscnile · 16/01/2014 22:32

Ok I've read the thread but there's too much to remember!

Well done to losers and successful fasters, especially those with anniversaries imminent

hang on in there if you haven't lost yet or recently - it's a long term way of eating and loss must be gradual to be sustainable. My loss of 1lb this week is the first proper loss for 5 weeks (as I only lost what I'd gained over Christmas for that's two weeks)

I'm another FD insomniac, getting better at falling asleep but waking early hours with no desire to sleep again, which makes me tired later on!

LilyJoAndMe · 16/01/2014 22:33

Hi almosthereagain,
Welcome back and good luck for your next FD.
Here just finished mine. Waow that was a long stint (crawls in on hands and knees).
6am till 10pm. Got there !!!Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 16/01/2014 22:34

Eating Late / eating carbs

A 300-500 cal FD supper is no problem when your tum is empty, after no breakfast and a very small lunch or none at all. Your body will use all that supper to refuel.

Even on NFDs, after intense fasted training, your body is in fat-burning mode and will readily burn a large post-training meal, even late at night.

Otherwise, however, a large supper can cause weight gain or prevent weight loss. That meal may be 600-1200 cals when your stomach is still digesting lunch and possibly breakfast.

When you go to bed, your body won't burn fat if you haven't exercised much and you've recently fed it all those calories; in fact it will store excess calories as more fat. Carbs are especially likely to be converted to fat.

On NFDs, many people would do better having a larger breakfast and lunch with any desired starchy carbs, grains, dessert or fruit, then a smaller dinner, not too late, mainly protein and veg.

OP posts:
mscnile · 16/01/2014 22:35

Thanks TIP (still feeling v pleased with myself!)

BigChocFrenzy · 16/01/2014 22:46

That's an impressive NSV, mscnile. No wonder it surprised you !
Smile

OP posts:
hopefulgum · 16/01/2014 23:35

Some wonderful posts here today (it is daytime for meGrin).

Thanks to the long-timers for your yearly wrap up. Such wonderful NSV and of course amazing SV's too.

BigChoc, I have always thought it best to eat carbs in the morning - much more likely to be burnt off by the end of the day. I eat toast on NFD's, but really limit grain in all other meals. I must admit to eating potatoes with an evening meal. I keep digging up new potatoes in the garden, and they are just SOOOO yummy! However, I don't eat them if I haven't grown them, so don't eat them all year round.

Well, I am really chuffed to have a NSV and a SV this morningSmile. The SV isn't a huge one, but I am not bothered as I am expecting AF tomorrow and imagine I will lose a bit more once that happens. I had a loss of 400 grams (which may be close to a pound?), but did measurements again and lost an inch off my hips, half an inch on the waist, but boobs are the same (water weight I guess as it's nearly TOTM).

I have just spent a bit of time online looking for new work pants, as I know mine will be too big in a couple of weeks time! Very pleased about that. My tummy feels much flatter, and I have more waist definition.

Shygirlie, I feel your pain. I was doing 5:2 last year and not really seeing any change in the scales, but it wasn't until restarting just before Christmas and using MFP that I realised that I was eating beyond my TDEE on NFD's.

I have found it very useful and very motivating. I love that I can put recipes into MFP and it will tell you how many calories per serve. I am learning so much (mainly that I was being a pig eating too much). Grin

mscnile · 17/01/2014 06:47

Congratulations hopeful I love the prospect of new clothes! I haven't done measurements for a while, might do that today. Planning on a run this morning, haven't been out for a while so it will be hard work but worth it.

Shygirlie I have to use MFP to keep track of calories if I want to lose - sometimes I out in what I think I might eat and see if it's going to be within TDEE, other times I just keep track as I go. It really does help to keep me onto the straight and narrow.

Good luck to all fasters today NFD here and working at home all day, will have to be good!

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage · 17/01/2014 06:51

CinnamonGirl - well done!! It's a great feeling when a FD goes well, isn't it? Mine went well yesterday and I am very happy as I am down again this week and back to where I was Christmas Eve. I'm 11 stone 4.4.

That brings me to my question. Do I have to change my TDEE every time my weight changes whether up or down?

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage · 17/01/2014 06:53

NSV! Just got into my black trousers that are a 12 but smaller than the same pair in navy and they fit! Finally.

Eatriskier · 17/01/2014 06:56

toffee not every time. Mfp recommends every 10 lbs. But if you start plateauing or gaining it's worth readjusting anyway.

mscnile · 17/01/2014 06:57

Yay for toffee! Well done you! I think TDEE needs changing every so often as the lighter you are the less fuel you need. I haven't changed it for a while though...

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage · 17/01/2014 06:58

Well done mscnile!

Eatriskier · 17/01/2014 07:01

Nicely done too toffee and hopeful

Am waiting for dh to vacate the bathroom so I can weigh in. I am still weighing weekly until I'm more sure I've got this maintaining balance right. Was weighing after every fast though so it's a drop. And I'm hoping to keep the weighing dropping too (not longer than once a month though as I don't want the weight creeping back )

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage · 17/01/2014 07:04

Ok. Every ten pounds it is. I will check later when I last did it but I'm sure I've not lost that much since.

DH making DS a fried egg and in moment of craziness at two losses in a week and getting into my black trousers I said I'd have one. Not sure good idea now.

mscnile · 17/01/2014 07:06

I had one the day, it's just an omelette really!

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage · 17/01/2014 07:06

Too late. DS is having it!!

PavlovsCats · 17/01/2014 07:11

Right my first ever fast day today, wish me luck!

WannaBeCareerWoman · 17/01/2014 07:11

Hello all,

So inspiring seeing all these victories. I joined a couple of months ago, it went ok, but then fell off the wagon for Christmas. I started a few days ago, had one FD, lost a kg, then an NFD and gained it all back! Is this normal? Shall I be more careful on NFD's? How often do people weigh? I gather some people weigh after each FD?

Thanks and wish me luck for re-starting!

Peplum41 · 17/01/2014 07:28

Hi weetabix I can sympathise with your struggle to stick to TDEE, as I do too, which is why my I'm firmly in the tortoise camp when it comes to losing weight, whereas you've got your hares like eatsrisk. I think the Xmas stuff and a holiday I had in November, re-ignited my passion for sweet stuff, which I think in turn makes me more snacky and that mindset where you think oh sod it, will be good tomorrow, where's the nutella?

I've brought sugar free, fat free Greek yogurt, actually nicer than it sounds, trying to have a lot less sugar, although Tuesday was a rather heavy cal day, I've managed a couple of sub TDEE, and ok TDEE days this week. Feel more in control. I think my fasts just undo the damage done on nfds rather than create a deficit.

As for the fatigue, is it worth getting a blood test? Could also be the lack of sun, I think there was a discussion about this on the maintenance thread, and trying a sun bed? Hth.

zed I had bad insomnia for a few weeks when I started fasting, another poster recommended bath and bed, read a book, which worked. Sometimes you do feel unpleasantly hungry at bed time, worth saving a few cals for something milky. I like ovaltine light, 77 cals. Most fasts I'm fine, its just the odd one which gets me.

eats I just got new filters for my dyson, what a difference! Its like it was when it was new, and I try to keep on top of rinsing them, although I hate that job.

tip thought for the day, you're full of surprises you.

Ooh nightshift nearly finished. Tara.