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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

The 5:2 thread number 36 - Fighting (& losing) the Battle of the Bulge? Eating too much junk? 5:2 is a healthy, sustainable way to achieve & maintain your goal weight. Join our friendly support group!

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 14/01/2014 15:27

The continuing thread for those of us following the 5:2 fast or other forms of fasting such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8.
The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012 and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat normally - or approximately your Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE - see explanation below). 4:3 is the same except you fast on 3 days in the week. Alternate-day fasting (ADF) is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. 16:8 is another form where you stick to only eating in an 8 hour window each day, therefore fasting for 16 hours each day.
By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.
You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.
WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.
MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website or app many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.
TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a TDEE calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.
NFD = Non fast day
NSV/LSV = Non scale victory/Lifestyle (change) victory
Michael Mosley has a website to accompany his book on the subject. Please go check it out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!
Lurkers and new starters: please just jump in and post - you'll find a lot of support here and we’re a friendly bunch.
Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:
Other Threads
All our previous threads can be found by browsing through the fasting section of the site.
Tips and Links : Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the tips and links that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!
Inspirational: eatriskier’s thread has some lovely inspiring stories which are worth checking out if you want some motivation to get started or keep going through a plateau. Please add your own too.
Recipes: frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!
Exercise: bigchocfrenzy has an incredibly informative and helpful exercise and fitness thread for discussion and advice on combining 5:2 with an exercise regime.
Maintaining: If you've been at this a while and are moving on to maintaining your goal weight, there is a thread here to discuss that.
Other links
This is a BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon - link to that programme here.
This Telegraph article comments on the diet and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley himself, very informative if you're just starting.
This blog post gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.
This link nicely demonstrates that there are many body ‘right’ body shapes and types, because what we are actually aiming for is low body fat for fitness and health.
A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")
Something to consider if you are currently your ideal BMI: this article appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI. (Though anecdotal evidence from these long-running threads may suggest otherwise…)
A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful.
A HUGE THANK YOU to Greeneggsandnicht for putting together all this info and resources into one concise OP text, much appreciated by so many 5:2ers!
Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this way of life!

OP posts:
BsshBossh · 16/01/2014 19:55

zed I am insomniac on FDs, or at least I fall asleep fine but wake up very alert at stupid-o-clock. This despite saving my calories for the night time. Fasting can put the body and mind into a state of heightened awareness and alertness so it's something I just accept is par of the course for me.

Shy how has your NFD eating been?

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage · 16/01/2014 19:56

Maeve789 - I am glad you said that as I hadn't realised I can have 3 NFD now Grin.

I have 130 ish calories left. What shall I spend them on?

zedzedzed · 16/01/2014 19:57

What great reviews betsyb and melanie I truly hope that a year from now I'm in the position to inspire someone like you have me, and start them off on the right foot on their weight-loss journey. Thanks Grin

almostthereagain · 16/01/2014 19:57

Hi Positively 9 sounds like we're in a similar situation! I'm struggling to get back to it post Christmas & overeating in the eves. Have finally managed to reduce the alcohol though as got back in the habit of a daily glass having hardly drunk at all since starting 5:2. Which are you're fast days?

zedzedzed · 16/01/2014 20:00

So Bssssh what you're saying is, I'm basically Yoda on FD nights and any burglar who chances his arm is screwed? Excellent. I may put aside some quantum mechanics for 3am rumbletime.

Thanks for reply.

ErrolTheDragon · 16/01/2014 20:00

Before artificial light, normal sleeping patterns would include a wakeful period in the middle of the night - maybe this is something that if it happens needs to be embraced (meditate, read some poetry or suchlike) rather than seen as something amiss. My DH quite often wakes in the small hours, downloads and reads the papers and then goes back to sleep.

ErrolTheDragon · 16/01/2014 20:01

x-post zed - yes, ideal time for a bit of light QM Grin

BsshBossh · 16/01/2014 20:08

My DH got me a Kindle Paperwhite for Christmas because of my middle-of-the-night wakings on FDs. I stay in bed and read without disturbing him for 30 mins or so then I'm ready to sleep again.

zedzedzed · 16/01/2014 20:10

thanks for the replyerrol

I've no tools for this empty insomnia!

I can't afford to lose too much sleep though as we have to be back up at 6am to party with the babies. If it was just me who'd suffer...but I think I might sell the babies to the first pedlar who passes by if I get sleep deprived regularly (suffered from PTSD after bad birth, a feature was stress-y nighttime panic-attacks... sorted now but getting up and doing stuff might be tricky as I wouldn't be able to go back to sleep after.

Maybe it'll be better tonight with my emergency munchie cals.

BsshBossh · 16/01/2014 20:12

FD over. It was tough and my resolve weakened early on but I made it! Have just broken the fast with some grapes and an apple and a pan of vegetable stew is simmering away on the hob. Now 3 NFDs!

zedzedzed · 16/01/2014 20:14

I may look up some meditate-y breathing techniques if nightwakings become a feature regularly. X

ShyGirlie · 16/01/2014 20:19

Errol and Talkin - i didnt calorie count on the NFDs, i took the advice "eat what you want" very literally! i know i had quite a bit of chocolate, plus a couple of desserts as there were celebrations at work.

do i need to watch what i eat every single day then? sigh my tdee is about 2150. Crap. Do u lot just type e everything u eat into MFP then or how do u keep track?

BigChocFrenzy · 16/01/2014 20:21

Zed I always keep packs of smoked salmon handy for FDs; 130 cals for 100g. Just a sprinkle of lemon juice and I eat on its own.
Also jars of tiny pickled onions, cherry tomatoes, olives stuffed with garlic cloves.
All keep well and can be combined with the salmon or nibbled on their own to top up a few cals.

OP posts:
Eatriskier · 16/01/2014 20:23

shy you need to eat normally for this to work but sadly normally doesn't mean what you want. Counting for a couple of weeks can be hugely informative to balance you out and get portion control, and I'd recommend its done for a short while just so you know how much you're consuming. After that don't count it you don't want to (well, unless you stop losing/start gaining). Just remember your TDEE will reduce as your weight drops too. Counting to TDEE is a lot more fun than counting to a reduced level. It's a lot less I can't have x and y as I don't have the calories and more I'll pick between x and y and enjoy the other one tomorrow!

zedzedzed · 16/01/2014 20:25

cheers big choc yeah I LOVE the salmon, smoked, pickled or fresh like tonight's gingery affair (2 smoked salmon for a fiver at the mo, thank God!) I like it with peppery rocket and (on NFDs) a big dollop of Philly. Yum.

ErrolTheDragon · 16/01/2014 20:26

I don't calorie count on NFDs - hate doing it - but I'm not trying to lose weight fast, just getting the scales to creep down rather than inexorably up. Having said that, after joining this thread and bothering to work out my TDEE I'm keeping rough track. I'm also finding that after the first while of delighted liberation 'eating what I want', that my appetite has adjusted so I'm not too inclined to overeat on NFDs.

CinammonGirl · 16/01/2014 20:29

FD 2 - done! Can't believe how good I feel. I am peckish but I have lots of energy, don't feel sluggish and tired and although looking forward to 4NF days, I don't WANT to over-eat. This is a major corner I've turned in my attitude towards food and I'm feeling very positive. To everyone else fasting today, we've done it! Thanks

BigChocFrenzy · 16/01/2014 20:31

A good night's sleep: It is recommended that for the

hour before bedtime, we avoid using any electronic gadgets

  • iPad, PC, TV, Kindle (Bssh !), wii, games etc -

Also, any light from alarm clocks, watches, other electronic gadgets are particularly disturbing, so cover up the gadgets to hide this.
Difficult in practice ! I turn my alarm to face the wall.

OP posts:
TalkinPeace · 16/01/2014 20:34

Shygirlie
Eat what you want is a bit of a misnomer : neither Michael Mosely or Mimi Spencer have ever been overweight. So their normal without calorie counting was within their TDEE.

Anybody with a BMI over 25 has got to learn what "normal" should be.
If your TDEE is 2150, then five days a week you get to eat around 2000 calories and 2 days a week is 500 calories.

Give MyFitnessPal a go - not to "count" so much as to start to understand how you got big in the first place
and thus to make the fasting really start to work.

BigChocFrenzy · 16/01/2014 20:36

Weight loss is dependent on not over-eating on NFDs.
Once you get used to this WOL, you don't need to calorie count. However, it is good to count for at least the first week, to check you are estimating your NFDs correctly.
Most people are overweight because they (sometimes unknowingly) have eaten above TDEE for years.

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 16/01/2014 20:42

For example, many folk don't realise in a coffee shop that when they order a muffin, choc cookie, cheesecake or latte with cream that each item alone may be over 500 cals.
Shock
Other calorie bombs: that "small" bar/portion of nuts, chocolate, fries, mum's trifle, Yorkshire, roast pots ......

As for pizza, Wine !!!

OP posts:
ShyGirlie · 16/01/2014 20:42

Thanks everyone. will try mfp although may wait til monday as heading away for the weekend! Smile

positively9something · 16/01/2014 20:59

almostthere I fast Mondays and Thursday! How about you? I also hardly drank any alcohol before Christmas either while doing 5:2 but I have been since Christmas Confused when did you start 5:2? And what is your current weight?

ShyGirlie · 16/01/2014 21:00

sorry, just one more thing. mu FD pattern is as follows...

breakfast: nothing
lunch: around 1.00pm
dinnner: around 8.30pm

is this timing ok?

then breakfast about 7.30 the next morning?

positively9something · 16/01/2014 21:07

Wow I wish I had a tdee of 2000 :( mine is now 1528 cals