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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Exercise & Fitness: Advice and information for those following 5:2 / IF (Intermittent Fasting)

999 replies

BigChocFrenzyAteYourReindeer · 31/12/2013 01:51

Why Exercise ?

Maintaining a normal bodyweight and taking regular exercise are 2 major areas of life which we can address to improve our health.

Fasted training, i.e. training on FDs, seems to increase the benefits of both training and IF, but it is advisable to first become used to fasting

Exercise alone does not produce significant weight loss for most people. However it can improve body shape and can help overcome weight plateaux.

Regular exercise helps reduce the risk of obesity, type 2 diabetes, heart diesease, high blood pressure, some cancers, osteoporosis, dementia, depression.

  • Try to train regularly, building up to 3-6 days per week.
  • Develop a training routine you enjoy and want to continue long term.
  • Regular exercisers gain the greatest benefits over their lifetime and they can minimise biological aging, i.e. "Bend the Aging Curve" BendAge

WARNING: If you are very obese or have health issues, check with your GP that you are able to start exercising and also if there are types of exercise you should avoid.

Fat and Metabolism

Body fat is highly active tissue which secretes hormones (e.g. leptin, adiponectin) and microphages (which cause inflammation) directly into the bloodstream. These substances can significantly affect metabolism & weight and increase the risk of diabetes, heart disease, high blood pressure, stroke, some cancers.
E.g ref and ref

Visceral fat is more dangerous than subcutaneous - a study found that liposuction removing up to 20lb of the latter did not improve health indicators. Visceral fat needs to be reduced by exercise and a calorie deficit, preferably both together.

Hormesis

"What doesn’t kill you makes you stronger"
Hormesis Mattson and Hormesis can be applied to exercise, analagous to how 5:2 /IF uses it for nutrition.
Alternating between “extremes” of feast and fast (like 5:2) or intense training and rest, makes the body more resilient.

The intermittent stress of lifting an extreme weight or performing at high speed for a short period pushes the body to overcompensate and prepare for an even greater future challenge HormesisTrain and AntiFragile
The following recovery period avoids damage from over-stressing.

INEFFICIENT: Low-Medium Intensity Steady state Cardio

Steady state cardio is not necessary and should only be a small part of your weekly cardio, unless it is all you can manage to do.

Only high intensity exercise recruits the fast-twitch muscle fibers that have the most glycogen (stored glucose). Steady State Cardio does not empty the glucose stores in those particular muscles. Hence, the circulating glucose has nowhere to be stored — except as bodyfat.

Moreover, the muscle cells will lose their sensitivity to insulin and become inflamed by the high levels of insulin, which the body has produced to deal with the high levels of circulating glucose. The body mortars this inflammation with LDL cholesterol.

Hence, those exercising only at low-medium intensity are at greater risk of cardiovascular problems than high intensity exercisers SteadyState (pp. 31-34).
Obviously, non-exercisers have the highest risk of all.

RECOMMENDED TYPES of Exercise

HIIT cardio and resistance training / weight lifting are recommended to boost the effect of 5:2/IF, to increase weight loss, reduce body fat, retain muscle and maintain TDEE / BMR.

Anyone who is not specialising in a sport at a high level should aim to do a variety of training: HIIT cardio, resistance and flexibility.

HOW to Exercise

The cardio machines and the girlie pink dumbbells that gyms push are inadequate to significantly improve fitness or burn fat.
However, 10 mins walk on a treadmill or outside is beneficial after training, especially after heavy lifting.
Scientists have proved that cardio and resistance training can be done in the same session, without detriment to either, e.g. TrainBoth

Whether you join a gym or train at home or in the park:

  • Train as intensively as your time, health and fitness level allow.
  • Do not remain in your comfort zone, or you will not improve.
  • You are supposed to drip sweat and pant heavily !
However, a brisk 30 mins daily walk plus 5 mins hoop is better than nothing and if done regularly will bring some health benefits.

Flexibility

  • Stretching for 5 mins before and after each training session is recommended
  • Yoga and Pilates classes can be added if additional flexibility training is desired. Some such classes also provide additional strength / toning.

HIIT (High Intensity Interval Training)

HIIT is an exercise strategy which alternates brief intervals of high intensity exercise with less-intense recovery periods. Time intervals may be equal or different and their length and the number of sets depends on fitness level.

Start with one session per week and build up to a maximum of 3 (no more).

HIIT is very time-efficient, producing the greatest fitness benefit in the least time (the advantage of hormesis). However, beginners should build up gradually, starting say with just 1 or 2 intervals.

Scientists have proved that HIIT burns more fat than steady state lower intensity exercise and speeds up the metabolism, which helps burn more calories for up to 48 hrs.

HIIT increases both aerobic and anaerobic endurance

HIIT can be applied to cardio: e.g. cycling, running, skipping, jumping, mountain climbs
or to bodyweight exercises, e.g. squatting, situps, burpees, pressups

Most gyms offer classes, e.g.
spinning, circuit training, CrossFit, Tabata, Fartlek(Fartlek = HIIT with irregular intervals)
which each use a form of interval training.
These classes require less planning and are often more enjoyable (music, socialising, equipment) than training on your own.

A typical HIIT session could consist of:

  • 4 mins warmup
  • 8 sets of intervals
  • 4 mins cooldown
and last 12-60 mins in total.

Recovery time is usually half the high intensity time.
Examples of typical interval sets are:

  • 20 seconds high intensity + 10 secs recovery OR
  • 40 sec high + 20 sec low OR
  • 60 sec high + 30 sec low

Detailed HIIT example plans: (scroll down to Workouts section and ignore whether entitled "cutting" or "bulking") BodyBuild

RESISTANCE Training / LIFTING

This helps retain muscle mass during weight loss and hence to maintain TDEE.

It is easier in a gym, especially re equipment. You can lift in the weights area on your own OR in a pump class.
Whether @ gym or home, before you start lifting, have a few lessons with a trainer to learn the correct form and avoid injury.

It is best not to train the same muscle groups 2 days in succession, so have rest days, or cardio, or train different muscle groups on different days.
Try to build up to weight training for 30-60 mins twice per week.

WARNING
The "Heavy" lifting described here should not exceed bodyweight unless you are really fit and expert.
Women who have given birth and / or are aged 40+ have a higher risk of pelvic floor / prolapse injuries when lifting heavy than young non-mums.

Main Lifting / Resistance Exercises

Reps = the number of repetitions in a set of a particular lifting exercise
Sets are normally separated by brief rests
E.g. you might do 3 sets each of 12 reps all of the same exercise.

If you have access to dumbbells / barbells, then for maximum effect, work the large muscle groups. Alternatively, use bodyweight.
squats
bent-over rows (press button "female")
Behind neckPress (press button "female")
dead lift
The abs and smaller muscle groups will automatically be trained by these exercises, but you can add optionally 20 mins weekly abs exercises:

Basic Abs

  • Situps: build up to 3 sets of 20 reps. Try to put your arms in front of you, instead of behind your head
  • Angled situps: with one ankle resting on the opposite knee. 2 sets of 15 each side
  • Plank: 3 sets, each 45 secs
  • Leg extensions: legs bent 90 degrees, so your lower legs are parallel to the floor. Stretch each leg in turn, parallel to the floor. 3 sets of 10.

Lifting To increase Strength Rather than Muscle Mass
Lift as heavy as you can, low reps, with 1 minute rest between sets
e.g. 5 sets x 5 reps each, i.e. totalling 25 lifts.

Lifting To Build More Muscle
With a lower weight, do 3 sets x 8-20 reps, i.e. totalling 24-60 lifts.

Additionally, or if you don't have heavy barbells, use your bodyweight.
Example to build up to:

  • 3 sets of 30 press ups, proper ones, see detail below +.
  • 40 deep squats, with thighs parallel to floor, i.e. ATG (Arse to Grass) see ++.
  • 3 set of 8 reps inverted pullup /row Inverted OR assisted chin-ups on a gym machine OR full chin-ups if you can manage them (Amazon have pullup bars which fit over doors from about £15)

+Press ups

  • It is best to keep attempting one proper pressup rather than doing several dozen girlie ones with your knees on the floor.
  • Once you can do one pressup, you will soon be able to build up to 5, then 10 etc.
  • Tip: keep the abs rigid, so strong abs are as important as strong shoulders & arms.

++Squats

  • Are the best exercise for the large muscle group in bum and thighs.
  • Basic principle: It is like having a pee on a public loo - get your bum down low and pointing to the rear, but not actually touching the seat.
-Lean back on your heels, so that weight is on them, not on your toes. -For bodyweight squats, bring your arms forward -Keep your back straight, but angled slightly forward, not vertical.
  • Go down as far as you can without knee pain.

CAUTION With Leangains-Type Protocols

5:2 is an easier WOL than other forms of IF, with most days being NFDs during which the body can recuperate.

Some women have had injuries or health problems with very tough LeanGains-type protocols, which combine ADF or daily 16:8 with fasted lifting of multiples of body weight.

Some women have achieved excellent results on LeanGains-type; others had problems after a few months, or even from the start. Particularly at risk are women with very low (11-18%) body fat, possibly already with irregular menstruation, or with EDs.

Post-menopausal women seem to do well, as do men, presumably due to differences in hormones, body fat %, metabolism.

RECOMMENDATION: Don't lift more than your bodyweight and mostly lift well below it.

Running versus Walking

Walking is beneficial psychologically, is easy on the knee joints and has some physical benefits.

However, at speeds of 5mph or faster, running will burn more calories per mile than walking Ref . Typical values:

  • For running (5 mph and higher): Total calories burned per mile = .75 x body weight (in pounds); net calories (see ++) burned per mile = .63 x weight.
  • For walking (3 to 4 mph): Total calories burned per mile = .53 x body weight; net calories burned per mile = .30 x weight.

++ Note: net calories = total calories - cals the body would have burned at rest (calculated from BMR)

AVOID OSTEOPOROSIS

We start losing bone density from about age 35. Women can lose a great deal before, during and after menopause.

Other risk factors: Smoking, heavy drinking, inactive lifestyle, very slim build, family history of osteoporosis, longterm steroid use.

To retain bone strength and avoid a painfully disabled old age, start now:
Ideally weight bearing exercises that load the bone along its length

Impact exercise E.g. walking, running, jumping, skipping rope, step class, hitting a heavy punch bag.

Lifting: squats, press-ups, bench press, overhead press etc.

Squats are much better than lunges: The weight in a squat is transmitted down along the spine, through the hip, and down along the bones of the leg, whereas in a lunge, it is transmitted across the shinbone and puts pressure on the knee joint.

Cycling normally does NOT increase bone density as it does not really load bones along their length. A study found that cyclists who did no other exercise had low bone density because of the combo of this with their training Osteo

KETTLEBELLS

Useful exercise descriptions and videos: Kettle
Recommended for beginners (and shown in the link):
. Two-handed swing
. Sumo Deadlift
. Turkish Getup
. Swing
. Clean and Jerk
. Press

How to Choose a Gym (if you want to)

  • gym offpeak can be as cheap as £30 p.m. as you don't need expensive pools, sauna, juice bars, massage etc.
  • within journey time 20 mins
  • plenty of classes at times to suit you
  • creche if needed
  • don't bother with expense of a personal trainer.

Start with these classes if available:

  • weekly spin, because you can set your own resistance and speed 45-60 mins
  • any additional interval training class, see earlier for list.
  • weekly pump 60 mins
  • weekly abs class 15-30 mins

======================================

CALCULATORS:
Estimate your fitness age: FitAge
Estimate Vo2Max iTunes App: Vo2APP
Body Fat Calculator:BF
Healthy Body Fat Percentages at Different Ages:
HealthyBF
TDEE with detailed activity times: TDEE

More links: 52FastDietForum-Fasting & Exercise 52exercise GettingStronger.Org-Hormesis Hormesis GettingStronger.Org-Fitness Fitness LeanGains Protocols : Leangains MarksDailyApple-Home Workouts Without Equipment WorkAtHome

OP posts:
TalkinPeace · 25/02/2014 17:36

B&W
I got a 5 gallon French jerry can with "VIN" stamped in the side .... wanted one for ages

am having a gym day tomorrow : will try to get some pics of my silly balancing

BigChocFrenzy · 25/02/2014 19:35

Tip Those 5 gallons are not your allowed weekend ration
You can't be drunk in charge of a BOSU Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 25/02/2014 20:15

Errol I suspect your problem is that your abs are a bit weak, rather than triceps. Wide pressups don't use triceps much, but all variants require strong abs. So, more plank and situps, yum Smile

I didn't do any pressup variants (narrow, diamond etc) until i could do 3 sets of proper ones. Best to concentrate on your main target.

I also recommend that during your pressups sessions you have 3 attempts at a full BigGirl one, say 1 attempt per set.
Remember, FREEZE those abs. Suddenly you can do a full press-up. Keep practicing and you can quickly build up to doing sets of them.

MazzleDazzle · 25/02/2014 20:40

Thank you! ThanksThe vid. really helped. I have been watching clips on youtube. Just not getting any better, despite the fact that I can now do a good, solid plank for 1:40 (mins, not hours obv.!). When I lower myself down, I get so far, then my knees buckle and give way Sad. However I will try the hand release press up. Certainly looks more doable and closer to a real press up too.

BigChocFrenzy · 25/02/2014 21:24

Mazzle FREEZE your abs during pressups, so your whole body is in a rigid line from toes to hands, with only your arms moving as they lower you.
The only "hinges" where rotation is allowed are the shoulders and elbows.
Those knees can't drop if your body is rigid.

BetsyBell · 25/02/2014 21:40

Woohoo! Managed 10 not-too-awful press-ups today! Still not hugely deep but getting there, and I'm feeling strong Grin

Breadandwine · 26/02/2014 00:13

Increased my kettlebell exercises from 2 sets to 3 tonight!

Bigger step up than I'd anticipated - so my upgrade to 5kg will take a bit longer. Once I can do 4 sets comfortably will be the time.

Errol, BC's quite right, I did find I made rapid progress once I tried the new method - starting off on the floor.

Now I can do 3 sets of 20 - which tomorrow I intend to upgrade to 4 sets.

BetsyBell · 26/02/2014 08:22

I've decided I'm not doing a second fast this week as I'm not eating much at the moment and weight is on the lower side of my normal, plus I am working out harder than usual - many extra hours of TKD in advance of grading. Really enjoying the return of some proper thigh muscles and no more weird strains from big kicks - building up strength everywhere now.

Feels great. Grin

ErrolTheDragon · 26/02/2014 12:21

Probably right about the abs, though I can do situps fine and hold a plank for a minute (do sets thereof ... is it better to do fewer for longer?) - because if I try starting from the floor either my chest or bum insists on going up first! But the arms are def needing improvement too - I can feel it after the dips yesterday, we had a decent walk this morning so I'm having a rest from the other stuff (might do some abs later)

BigChocFrenzy · 26/02/2014 12:25

Betsy Sounds a good idea. Now you are at your goal weight, you can afford to feed your muscles a bit more, to repair and grow.
Don't get worried if you later put on a couple of pounds permanently - check your waist, but I bet it will be muscle, which is good.

BetsyBell · 26/02/2014 16:26

Cheers BCF - I'm not really fussed about numbers on the scale (within reason) but definitely trying to get the old bodyfat % down, muscle and strength up. Or reduce the 'jiggle-factor' as I unscientifically call it Grin

Given that I don't have access to a DEXA scanner, and having previously discovered that even medical body-fat scales woefully underestimated my body fat (had a dexa scan as part of a research study 2 years ago), I'm thinking that jiggle factor is the most useful assessment tool I've got!

ErrolTheDragon · 27/02/2014 10:14

done my Ri30, and then 3x1min forearm and extended arm planks. I'd stopped doing these as the shred L2&3 had quite a few plank-based moves, but 'moves' really isn't the same deal as isometric hold I guess. Really don't like them, and they take quite a while, its not just the 6 mins because I need to rest between them (maybe there's some complementary thing I could do between them). Then 3 sets of inclined push-ups - going back up to a higher level with better form.

BetsyBell · 27/02/2014 16:08

Woke up today and my body wanted a fast day after all! Will only be a mini one though as I'm planning a pasta-based dinner so will end up round the 800-1000 calorie mark I think (had a small lunch).

BigChocFrenzy · 27/02/2014 20:31

Errol In between planks, I just rotate on one arm and go right into a side plank position (I raise the upper leg too) and then move hips up and down 20-30 times. I also do situps.

If you want to rest the abs between planks, then do ATG squats or even a few mins skipping, to raise your heart rate.

ErrolTheDragon · 27/02/2014 22:24

Um. I find that after each minutes plank I'm breathing quite hard!

Breadandwine · 28/02/2014 22:36

Errol Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 28/02/2014 22:39

Sorry, Errol, I had a great big Grin too !

BetsyBell · 28/02/2014 23:35

Grading tomorrow Grin Shock

Breadandwine · 01/03/2014 02:12

All the best, BB!

I'm sure you'll do it with some to spare! And then it'll be eyes down for the next one!Grin

BetsyBell · 01/03/2014 08:13

Thanks B&W! As long as my brain doesn't suddenly go blank I should be fine Grin

BetsyBell · 01/03/2014 16:22

I did it! And then some! Grin

Now drinking champagne.

Might take a day off from exercise now...

Trying to post a photo but no joy yet.

TalkinPeace · 01/03/2014 17:47

Yay BetsyBell and remember that celebration champagne has no calories Wink

BetsyBell · 01/03/2014 19:21

Tip Deffo no alkihole in this bubbly. Nosirre

Been nearly teetotal in the last couple of months so it's quite nice to let loose Grin

Also very much enjoying family being proud of me. Lovely Smile

TalkinPeace · 01/03/2014 20:26

Also very much enjoying family being proud of me. Lovely
and ALL else pales into insignificance
well done that girl !!

BigChocFrenzy · 01/03/2014 22:54

Betsy Hip, hip, hooray for the Champ !!
^^ Flowers Grin

Lovely to hear your news and that your family are proud
Grin
Your MN family are proud too - but we want to see that sparkly new belt, please.