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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Exercise & Fitness: Advice and information for those following 5:2 / IF (Intermittent Fasting)

999 replies

BigChocFrenzyAteYourReindeer · 31/12/2013 01:51

Why Exercise ?

Maintaining a normal bodyweight and taking regular exercise are 2 major areas of life which we can address to improve our health.

Fasted training, i.e. training on FDs, seems to increase the benefits of both training and IF, but it is advisable to first become used to fasting

Exercise alone does not produce significant weight loss for most people. However it can improve body shape and can help overcome weight plateaux.

Regular exercise helps reduce the risk of obesity, type 2 diabetes, heart diesease, high blood pressure, some cancers, osteoporosis, dementia, depression.

  • Try to train regularly, building up to 3-6 days per week.
  • Develop a training routine you enjoy and want to continue long term.
  • Regular exercisers gain the greatest benefits over their lifetime and they can minimise biological aging, i.e. "Bend the Aging Curve" BendAge

WARNING: If you are very obese or have health issues, check with your GP that you are able to start exercising and also if there are types of exercise you should avoid.

Fat and Metabolism

Body fat is highly active tissue which secretes hormones (e.g. leptin, adiponectin) and microphages (which cause inflammation) directly into the bloodstream. These substances can significantly affect metabolism & weight and increase the risk of diabetes, heart disease, high blood pressure, stroke, some cancers.
E.g ref and ref

Visceral fat is more dangerous than subcutaneous - a study found that liposuction removing up to 20lb of the latter did not improve health indicators. Visceral fat needs to be reduced by exercise and a calorie deficit, preferably both together.

Hormesis

"What doesn’t kill you makes you stronger"
Hormesis Mattson and Hormesis can be applied to exercise, analagous to how 5:2 /IF uses it for nutrition.
Alternating between “extremes” of feast and fast (like 5:2) or intense training and rest, makes the body more resilient.

The intermittent stress of lifting an extreme weight or performing at high speed for a short period pushes the body to overcompensate and prepare for an even greater future challenge HormesisTrain and AntiFragile
The following recovery period avoids damage from over-stressing.

INEFFICIENT: Low-Medium Intensity Steady state Cardio

Steady state cardio is not necessary and should only be a small part of your weekly cardio, unless it is all you can manage to do.

Only high intensity exercise recruits the fast-twitch muscle fibers that have the most glycogen (stored glucose). Steady State Cardio does not empty the glucose stores in those particular muscles. Hence, the circulating glucose has nowhere to be stored — except as bodyfat.

Moreover, the muscle cells will lose their sensitivity to insulin and become inflamed by the high levels of insulin, which the body has produced to deal with the high levels of circulating glucose. The body mortars this inflammation with LDL cholesterol.

Hence, those exercising only at low-medium intensity are at greater risk of cardiovascular problems than high intensity exercisers SteadyState (pp. 31-34).
Obviously, non-exercisers have the highest risk of all.

RECOMMENDED TYPES of Exercise

HIIT cardio and resistance training / weight lifting are recommended to boost the effect of 5:2/IF, to increase weight loss, reduce body fat, retain muscle and maintain TDEE / BMR.

Anyone who is not specialising in a sport at a high level should aim to do a variety of training: HIIT cardio, resistance and flexibility.

HOW to Exercise

The cardio machines and the girlie pink dumbbells that gyms push are inadequate to significantly improve fitness or burn fat.
However, 10 mins walk on a treadmill or outside is beneficial after training, especially after heavy lifting.
Scientists have proved that cardio and resistance training can be done in the same session, without detriment to either, e.g. TrainBoth

Whether you join a gym or train at home or in the park:

  • Train as intensively as your time, health and fitness level allow.
  • Do not remain in your comfort zone, or you will not improve.
  • You are supposed to drip sweat and pant heavily !
However, a brisk 30 mins daily walk plus 5 mins hoop is better than nothing and if done regularly will bring some health benefits.

Flexibility

  • Stretching for 5 mins before and after each training session is recommended
  • Yoga and Pilates classes can be added if additional flexibility training is desired. Some such classes also provide additional strength / toning.

HIIT (High Intensity Interval Training)

HIIT is an exercise strategy which alternates brief intervals of high intensity exercise with less-intense recovery periods. Time intervals may be equal or different and their length and the number of sets depends on fitness level.

Start with one session per week and build up to a maximum of 3 (no more).

HIIT is very time-efficient, producing the greatest fitness benefit in the least time (the advantage of hormesis). However, beginners should build up gradually, starting say with just 1 or 2 intervals.

Scientists have proved that HIIT burns more fat than steady state lower intensity exercise and speeds up the metabolism, which helps burn more calories for up to 48 hrs.

HIIT increases both aerobic and anaerobic endurance

HIIT can be applied to cardio: e.g. cycling, running, skipping, jumping, mountain climbs
or to bodyweight exercises, e.g. squatting, situps, burpees, pressups

Most gyms offer classes, e.g.
spinning, circuit training, CrossFit, Tabata, Fartlek(Fartlek = HIIT with irregular intervals)
which each use a form of interval training.
These classes require less planning and are often more enjoyable (music, socialising, equipment) than training on your own.

A typical HIIT session could consist of:

  • 4 mins warmup
  • 8 sets of intervals
  • 4 mins cooldown
and last 12-60 mins in total.

Recovery time is usually half the high intensity time.
Examples of typical interval sets are:

  • 20 seconds high intensity + 10 secs recovery OR
  • 40 sec high + 20 sec low OR
  • 60 sec high + 30 sec low

Detailed HIIT example plans: (scroll down to Workouts section and ignore whether entitled "cutting" or "bulking") BodyBuild

RESISTANCE Training / LIFTING

This helps retain muscle mass during weight loss and hence to maintain TDEE.

It is easier in a gym, especially re equipment. You can lift in the weights area on your own OR in a pump class.
Whether @ gym or home, before you start lifting, have a few lessons with a trainer to learn the correct form and avoid injury.

It is best not to train the same muscle groups 2 days in succession, so have rest days, or cardio, or train different muscle groups on different days.
Try to build up to weight training for 30-60 mins twice per week.

WARNING
The "Heavy" lifting described here should not exceed bodyweight unless you are really fit and expert.
Women who have given birth and / or are aged 40+ have a higher risk of pelvic floor / prolapse injuries when lifting heavy than young non-mums.

Main Lifting / Resistance Exercises

Reps = the number of repetitions in a set of a particular lifting exercise
Sets are normally separated by brief rests
E.g. you might do 3 sets each of 12 reps all of the same exercise.

If you have access to dumbbells / barbells, then for maximum effect, work the large muscle groups. Alternatively, use bodyweight.
squats
bent-over rows (press button "female")
Behind neckPress (press button "female")
dead lift
The abs and smaller muscle groups will automatically be trained by these exercises, but you can add optionally 20 mins weekly abs exercises:

Basic Abs

  • Situps: build up to 3 sets of 20 reps. Try to put your arms in front of you, instead of behind your head
  • Angled situps: with one ankle resting on the opposite knee. 2 sets of 15 each side
  • Plank: 3 sets, each 45 secs
  • Leg extensions: legs bent 90 degrees, so your lower legs are parallel to the floor. Stretch each leg in turn, parallel to the floor. 3 sets of 10.

Lifting To increase Strength Rather than Muscle Mass
Lift as heavy as you can, low reps, with 1 minute rest between sets
e.g. 5 sets x 5 reps each, i.e. totalling 25 lifts.

Lifting To Build More Muscle
With a lower weight, do 3 sets x 8-20 reps, i.e. totalling 24-60 lifts.

Additionally, or if you don't have heavy barbells, use your bodyweight.
Example to build up to:

  • 3 sets of 30 press ups, proper ones, see detail below +.
  • 40 deep squats, with thighs parallel to floor, i.e. ATG (Arse to Grass) see ++.
  • 3 set of 8 reps inverted pullup /row Inverted OR assisted chin-ups on a gym machine OR full chin-ups if you can manage them (Amazon have pullup bars which fit over doors from about £15)

+Press ups

  • It is best to keep attempting one proper pressup rather than doing several dozen girlie ones with your knees on the floor.
  • Once you can do one pressup, you will soon be able to build up to 5, then 10 etc.
  • Tip: keep the abs rigid, so strong abs are as important as strong shoulders & arms.

++Squats

  • Are the best exercise for the large muscle group in bum and thighs.
  • Basic principle: It is like having a pee on a public loo - get your bum down low and pointing to the rear, but not actually touching the seat.
-Lean back on your heels, so that weight is on them, not on your toes. -For bodyweight squats, bring your arms forward -Keep your back straight, but angled slightly forward, not vertical.
  • Go down as far as you can without knee pain.

CAUTION With Leangains-Type Protocols

5:2 is an easier WOL than other forms of IF, with most days being NFDs during which the body can recuperate.

Some women have had injuries or health problems with very tough LeanGains-type protocols, which combine ADF or daily 16:8 with fasted lifting of multiples of body weight.

Some women have achieved excellent results on LeanGains-type; others had problems after a few months, or even from the start. Particularly at risk are women with very low (11-18%) body fat, possibly already with irregular menstruation, or with EDs.

Post-menopausal women seem to do well, as do men, presumably due to differences in hormones, body fat %, metabolism.

RECOMMENDATION: Don't lift more than your bodyweight and mostly lift well below it.

Running versus Walking

Walking is beneficial psychologically, is easy on the knee joints and has some physical benefits.

However, at speeds of 5mph or faster, running will burn more calories per mile than walking Ref . Typical values:

  • For running (5 mph and higher): Total calories burned per mile = .75 x body weight (in pounds); net calories (see ++) burned per mile = .63 x weight.
  • For walking (3 to 4 mph): Total calories burned per mile = .53 x body weight; net calories burned per mile = .30 x weight.

++ Note: net calories = total calories - cals the body would have burned at rest (calculated from BMR)

AVOID OSTEOPOROSIS

We start losing bone density from about age 35. Women can lose a great deal before, during and after menopause.

Other risk factors: Smoking, heavy drinking, inactive lifestyle, very slim build, family history of osteoporosis, longterm steroid use.

To retain bone strength and avoid a painfully disabled old age, start now:
Ideally weight bearing exercises that load the bone along its length

Impact exercise E.g. walking, running, jumping, skipping rope, step class, hitting a heavy punch bag.

Lifting: squats, press-ups, bench press, overhead press etc.

Squats are much better than lunges: The weight in a squat is transmitted down along the spine, through the hip, and down along the bones of the leg, whereas in a lunge, it is transmitted across the shinbone and puts pressure on the knee joint.

Cycling normally does NOT increase bone density as it does not really load bones along their length. A study found that cyclists who did no other exercise had low bone density because of the combo of this with their training Osteo

KETTLEBELLS

Useful exercise descriptions and videos: Kettle
Recommended for beginners (and shown in the link):
. Two-handed swing
. Sumo Deadlift
. Turkish Getup
. Swing
. Clean and Jerk
. Press

How to Choose a Gym (if you want to)

  • gym offpeak can be as cheap as £30 p.m. as you don't need expensive pools, sauna, juice bars, massage etc.
  • within journey time 20 mins
  • plenty of classes at times to suit you
  • creche if needed
  • don't bother with expense of a personal trainer.

Start with these classes if available:

  • weekly spin, because you can set your own resistance and speed 45-60 mins
  • any additional interval training class, see earlier for list.
  • weekly pump 60 mins
  • weekly abs class 15-30 mins

======================================

CALCULATORS:
Estimate your fitness age: FitAge
Estimate Vo2Max iTunes App: Vo2APP
Body Fat Calculator:BF
Healthy Body Fat Percentages at Different Ages:
HealthyBF
TDEE with detailed activity times: TDEE

More links: 52FastDietForum-Fasting & Exercise 52exercise GettingStronger.Org-Hormesis Hormesis GettingStronger.Org-Fitness Fitness LeanGains Protocols : Leangains MarksDailyApple-Home Workouts Without Equipment WorkAtHome

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 16/01/2014 00:25

The US CDC recommends for even greater health benefits at least 150 mins vigorous cardio / aerobic and 2-3 times weekly lifting / strength weekly
CDC

B&W Unless you go to a serious exercise site, most calculators and most advice is for the typical low-motivation couch potato.
Hence, useless for the 5% of the population who work properly at keeping in shape.

Breadandwine · 16/01/2014 05:53

Ah, thanks, BC!

I'll check out that link - and answer your question - tomorrow!

(That's today, already! Confused)

ErrolTheDragon · 16/01/2014 09:54

Shred plus 3x20 sec side planks per side and 3x18 inclined push-ups. The side planks are killers.

Now to see if I can get my lazy dog to come for a walk....

ErrolTheDragon · 16/01/2014 10:32

Gah - he balked again. Slipped his collar this time and started stomping back home. So I returned him and just had a quick mile walk instead of the two I'd intended. Nice sunny day too.

BigChocFrenzy · 16/01/2014 11:20

Errol That poor dog may think you want him to do side planks too; he surely can't be too lazy to walk. Maybe you need to train him to fitness via the Mosely Fast Exercise. Some sprinting (him not you) chasing a ball ?
Smile
Are you doing side planks on your forearm, or on your hand ?
I stick my other leg in the air, so I landed hard on my bum the other day when balancing on just hand and side of other foot.

BigChocFrenzy · 16/01/2014 11:37

I finally sorted iPad issues with photos, so my gym photos are finally available.

TalkinPeace · 16/01/2014 12:51

Spin / Pelvic issues .... spin is one of the classes that various friends have done right into the late stages of pregnancy and soon afterwards as there are no rapid changes in 'pressure'

personally I did pilates and bodypump

interestingly I had a go at the HIIT bits of my LBT class today and they are getting easier - still don't like them but can do them

swiss ball tricks ... hands flat on floor, ball under shins, lift hips up till whole of body is vertical and only toes are on ball - like a pike dive position ... repeat 5 times : quite fun

TalkinPeace · 16/01/2014 12:53

bigchoc CLASSY anonymising of pictures !!!

ErrolTheDragon · 16/01/2014 13:02

Bigchoc - ha, he's one of those dogs that if you throw a ball he'll look at you Hmm 'WTF did you throw that away for' and wait for you to go and get it back. TBF, he may have gone off walking through the village because last time he actually did walk he got a thorn in his pad - he's fine now, been walking elsewhere no problems. But having to waste time and fuel driving the dog somewhere instead of straight out of the door is bad news.

Side plank on forearm.

Lazysuzanne · 16/01/2014 13:16

I'm with you on the ez bar deadlifts Bigchoc, less wrist stress Wink

EarSlaps · 16/01/2014 14:06

Did Killer again, really enjoying it. Got lots of positive comments today at playgroup in my XS jumper dress. I have also noticed that the wobbly inner thighs are finally starting to wobble a little bit less. Perhaps I don't need to save up for liposuction after all so I can save up for implants instead Grin.

BsshBossh · 16/01/2014 15:07

Errol you need to get your dog on this thread, BigChoc will soon knock him into shape.

I might try Spin one day... peeking into the Spin room at my gym makes me very scared though. Love the pics BigChoc .

BsshBossh · 16/01/2014 15:09

Earslaps look at you in your XS dress :) And hurrah for less wobbly thighs. Despite no exercise I can see a gap between my much firmer thighs - now I know this is just genetics/physiological and certainly not important but having been between 11-15 stones all my life it's nice to admire my firm, slim thighs.

BsshBossh · 16/01/2014 15:14

Hmm my last sentence sounds a bit self-pervy doesn't it Hmm. Wish there was a delete or edit button on posts.

ErrolTheDragon · 16/01/2014 15:19

Bssh - no! Its a great change from how women so often view and talk about their bodies. Smile

If I had BigChoc's muscles I'd just carry the dog the mile out and make him walk back. Though I'd probably look a little bit silly! Grin

EarSlaps · 16/01/2014 16:30

Not at all odd Bssh. I really enjoy seeing a bit of definition emerge from under a layer of flab. I have got a bit of definition in my arms, abs and thighs. Sometimes when I touch my stomach I still can't believe it's actually firm rather than wobbly. Something I like about doing exercise is when your muscles ache afterwards- it makes you aware of how your body is changing. When I exercise I really try to focus on the muscles I'm working, it gives me a boost to keep going.

Errol- you need one of these. Then you wouldn't look at all silly Grin.

ErrolTheDragon · 16/01/2014 16:35

Earslaps - unfortunately not suitable for a 12kg standard dachshund Grin

positively9something · 16/01/2014 18:27

Bigchoc - I havn't really lost much weight, I had lost 10lbs but now I have put 3lbs back on :( so I'm only down 7lbs.

Mazzel - I am in a similar position to you but my posion is chocolate and not biscuits so much. before christmas I had stopped eating chocolate as I felt it was a waste of calories, I though I had lost the habit too but it seems to be back :(

positively9something · 16/01/2014 18:31

Well done to all you exercisers, I know if I started the shred my body would improve so quickly, but I just cant be bothered! I enjoy the encouragement of attending a class, but as I am a single parent I find it difficult to make time for classes, my mum is local but as dd is still so young we need to be home getting dinner and bed sorted early.

I know it all sounds like excuses which it probably is, but I've never been motivated to exercise alot, any idea how to improve motivation?

BetsyBell · 16/01/2014 18:42

I LOVE that you admire your thighs Bssh! So much nicer than hear about the self-deprecation of our own bodies us women are so famous for.

I also LOVE bogchocs photos - the chocolate faces are inspired but THOSE ARMS! THOSE MUSCLES!

Keep the faith positively - you can lose those bad habits again :) Just think about how things were for you this time last year and look at all the positive changes you've made - not just the number of pounds lost. It's not just about weight after all. xxx

ErrolTheDragon · 16/01/2014 19:12

positively - g'wan, do the shred and join the January shred thread - lots of encouragement there.

BigChocFrenzy · 16/01/2014 19:56

Great pix, EarSlaps. You should receive a lot of wolf whistles on the beach.

Bssh You're perfectly entitled to admire your new firm regions !

Seriously, we should be proud of having muscle and definition, of being strong. We have earned our physiques.

I wish also I could convince everyone that it is good when your muscles grow.

Women, let's become lean, mean fighting machines !

^^

BigChocFrenzy · 16/01/2014 20:08

Hey, everybody, I've shown you mine, so now show me yours:

POST YOUR EXERCISE PHOTOS

anything you want: in your swimming or exercise gear, or running, squatting, kettling, doing press-ups, planks, walking with dachshund (do include the dog)

Errol if you post squats, only you should be squatting, though !

Come on, B&W, show us your kettle !

Tip How about a yoga pose with your toe somewhere behind your ear ?

ErrolTheDragon · 16/01/2014 20:17

Grin I've got a photo of the dog (not squatting) on my profile, but don't have any of me on my computer. I don't think I want any pictures taken of me in my exercise kit - not yet, anyway!

BigChocFrenzy · 16/01/2014 20:44

Errol A fine figure of a dog.

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