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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Exercise & Fitness: Advice and information for those following 5:2 / IF (Intermittent Fasting)

999 replies

BigChocFrenzyAteYourReindeer · 31/12/2013 01:51

Why Exercise ?

Maintaining a normal bodyweight and taking regular exercise are 2 major areas of life which we can address to improve our health.

Fasted training, i.e. training on FDs, seems to increase the benefits of both training and IF, but it is advisable to first become used to fasting

Exercise alone does not produce significant weight loss for most people. However it can improve body shape and can help overcome weight plateaux.

Regular exercise helps reduce the risk of obesity, type 2 diabetes, heart diesease, high blood pressure, some cancers, osteoporosis, dementia, depression.

  • Try to train regularly, building up to 3-6 days per week.
  • Develop a training routine you enjoy and want to continue long term.
  • Regular exercisers gain the greatest benefits over their lifetime and they can minimise biological aging, i.e. "Bend the Aging Curve" BendAge

WARNING: If you are very obese or have health issues, check with your GP that you are able to start exercising and also if there are types of exercise you should avoid.

Fat and Metabolism

Body fat is highly active tissue which secretes hormones (e.g. leptin, adiponectin) and microphages (which cause inflammation) directly into the bloodstream. These substances can significantly affect metabolism & weight and increase the risk of diabetes, heart disease, high blood pressure, stroke, some cancers.
E.g ref and ref

Visceral fat is more dangerous than subcutaneous - a study found that liposuction removing up to 20lb of the latter did not improve health indicators. Visceral fat needs to be reduced by exercise and a calorie deficit, preferably both together.

Hormesis

"What doesn’t kill you makes you stronger"
Hormesis Mattson and Hormesis can be applied to exercise, analagous to how 5:2 /IF uses it for nutrition.
Alternating between “extremes” of feast and fast (like 5:2) or intense training and rest, makes the body more resilient.

The intermittent stress of lifting an extreme weight or performing at high speed for a short period pushes the body to overcompensate and prepare for an even greater future challenge HormesisTrain and AntiFragile
The following recovery period avoids damage from over-stressing.

INEFFICIENT: Low-Medium Intensity Steady state Cardio

Steady state cardio is not necessary and should only be a small part of your weekly cardio, unless it is all you can manage to do.

Only high intensity exercise recruits the fast-twitch muscle fibers that have the most glycogen (stored glucose). Steady State Cardio does not empty the glucose stores in those particular muscles. Hence, the circulating glucose has nowhere to be stored — except as bodyfat.

Moreover, the muscle cells will lose their sensitivity to insulin and become inflamed by the high levels of insulin, which the body has produced to deal with the high levels of circulating glucose. The body mortars this inflammation with LDL cholesterol.

Hence, those exercising only at low-medium intensity are at greater risk of cardiovascular problems than high intensity exercisers SteadyState (pp. 31-34).
Obviously, non-exercisers have the highest risk of all.

RECOMMENDED TYPES of Exercise

HIIT cardio and resistance training / weight lifting are recommended to boost the effect of 5:2/IF, to increase weight loss, reduce body fat, retain muscle and maintain TDEE / BMR.

Anyone who is not specialising in a sport at a high level should aim to do a variety of training: HIIT cardio, resistance and flexibility.

HOW to Exercise

The cardio machines and the girlie pink dumbbells that gyms push are inadequate to significantly improve fitness or burn fat.
However, 10 mins walk on a treadmill or outside is beneficial after training, especially after heavy lifting.
Scientists have proved that cardio and resistance training can be done in the same session, without detriment to either, e.g. TrainBoth

Whether you join a gym or train at home or in the park:

  • Train as intensively as your time, health and fitness level allow.
  • Do not remain in your comfort zone, or you will not improve.
  • You are supposed to drip sweat and pant heavily !
However, a brisk 30 mins daily walk plus 5 mins hoop is better than nothing and if done regularly will bring some health benefits.

Flexibility

  • Stretching for 5 mins before and after each training session is recommended
  • Yoga and Pilates classes can be added if additional flexibility training is desired. Some such classes also provide additional strength / toning.

HIIT (High Intensity Interval Training)

HIIT is an exercise strategy which alternates brief intervals of high intensity exercise with less-intense recovery periods. Time intervals may be equal or different and their length and the number of sets depends on fitness level.

Start with one session per week and build up to a maximum of 3 (no more).

HIIT is very time-efficient, producing the greatest fitness benefit in the least time (the advantage of hormesis). However, beginners should build up gradually, starting say with just 1 or 2 intervals.

Scientists have proved that HIIT burns more fat than steady state lower intensity exercise and speeds up the metabolism, which helps burn more calories for up to 48 hrs.

HIIT increases both aerobic and anaerobic endurance

HIIT can be applied to cardio: e.g. cycling, running, skipping, jumping, mountain climbs
or to bodyweight exercises, e.g. squatting, situps, burpees, pressups

Most gyms offer classes, e.g.
spinning, circuit training, CrossFit, Tabata, Fartlek(Fartlek = HIIT with irregular intervals)
which each use a form of interval training.
These classes require less planning and are often more enjoyable (music, socialising, equipment) than training on your own.

A typical HIIT session could consist of:

  • 4 mins warmup
  • 8 sets of intervals
  • 4 mins cooldown
and last 12-60 mins in total.

Recovery time is usually half the high intensity time.
Examples of typical interval sets are:

  • 20 seconds high intensity + 10 secs recovery OR
  • 40 sec high + 20 sec low OR
  • 60 sec high + 30 sec low

Detailed HIIT example plans: (scroll down to Workouts section and ignore whether entitled "cutting" or "bulking") BodyBuild

RESISTANCE Training / LIFTING

This helps retain muscle mass during weight loss and hence to maintain TDEE.

It is easier in a gym, especially re equipment. You can lift in the weights area on your own OR in a pump class.
Whether @ gym or home, before you start lifting, have a few lessons with a trainer to learn the correct form and avoid injury.

It is best not to train the same muscle groups 2 days in succession, so have rest days, or cardio, or train different muscle groups on different days.
Try to build up to weight training for 30-60 mins twice per week.

WARNING
The "Heavy" lifting described here should not exceed bodyweight unless you are really fit and expert.
Women who have given birth and / or are aged 40+ have a higher risk of pelvic floor / prolapse injuries when lifting heavy than young non-mums.

Main Lifting / Resistance Exercises

Reps = the number of repetitions in a set of a particular lifting exercise
Sets are normally separated by brief rests
E.g. you might do 3 sets each of 12 reps all of the same exercise.

If you have access to dumbbells / barbells, then for maximum effect, work the large muscle groups. Alternatively, use bodyweight.
squats
bent-over rows (press button "female")
Behind neckPress (press button "female")
dead lift
The abs and smaller muscle groups will automatically be trained by these exercises, but you can add optionally 20 mins weekly abs exercises:

Basic Abs

  • Situps: build up to 3 sets of 20 reps. Try to put your arms in front of you, instead of behind your head
  • Angled situps: with one ankle resting on the opposite knee. 2 sets of 15 each side
  • Plank: 3 sets, each 45 secs
  • Leg extensions: legs bent 90 degrees, so your lower legs are parallel to the floor. Stretch each leg in turn, parallel to the floor. 3 sets of 10.

Lifting To increase Strength Rather than Muscle Mass
Lift as heavy as you can, low reps, with 1 minute rest between sets
e.g. 5 sets x 5 reps each, i.e. totalling 25 lifts.

Lifting To Build More Muscle
With a lower weight, do 3 sets x 8-20 reps, i.e. totalling 24-60 lifts.

Additionally, or if you don't have heavy barbells, use your bodyweight.
Example to build up to:

  • 3 sets of 30 press ups, proper ones, see detail below +.
  • 40 deep squats, with thighs parallel to floor, i.e. ATG (Arse to Grass) see ++.
  • 3 set of 8 reps inverted pullup /row Inverted OR assisted chin-ups on a gym machine OR full chin-ups if you can manage them (Amazon have pullup bars which fit over doors from about £15)

+Press ups

  • It is best to keep attempting one proper pressup rather than doing several dozen girlie ones with your knees on the floor.
  • Once you can do one pressup, you will soon be able to build up to 5, then 10 etc.
  • Tip: keep the abs rigid, so strong abs are as important as strong shoulders & arms.

++Squats

  • Are the best exercise for the large muscle group in bum and thighs.
  • Basic principle: It is like having a pee on a public loo - get your bum down low and pointing to the rear, but not actually touching the seat.
-Lean back on your heels, so that weight is on them, not on your toes. -For bodyweight squats, bring your arms forward -Keep your back straight, but angled slightly forward, not vertical.
  • Go down as far as you can without knee pain.

CAUTION With Leangains-Type Protocols

5:2 is an easier WOL than other forms of IF, with most days being NFDs during which the body can recuperate.

Some women have had injuries or health problems with very tough LeanGains-type protocols, which combine ADF or daily 16:8 with fasted lifting of multiples of body weight.

Some women have achieved excellent results on LeanGains-type; others had problems after a few months, or even from the start. Particularly at risk are women with very low (11-18%) body fat, possibly already with irregular menstruation, or with EDs.

Post-menopausal women seem to do well, as do men, presumably due to differences in hormones, body fat %, metabolism.

RECOMMENDATION: Don't lift more than your bodyweight and mostly lift well below it.

Running versus Walking

Walking is beneficial psychologically, is easy on the knee joints and has some physical benefits.

However, at speeds of 5mph or faster, running will burn more calories per mile than walking Ref . Typical values:

  • For running (5 mph and higher): Total calories burned per mile = .75 x body weight (in pounds); net calories (see ++) burned per mile = .63 x weight.
  • For walking (3 to 4 mph): Total calories burned per mile = .53 x body weight; net calories burned per mile = .30 x weight.

++ Note: net calories = total calories - cals the body would have burned at rest (calculated from BMR)

AVOID OSTEOPOROSIS

We start losing bone density from about age 35. Women can lose a great deal before, during and after menopause.

Other risk factors: Smoking, heavy drinking, inactive lifestyle, very slim build, family history of osteoporosis, longterm steroid use.

To retain bone strength and avoid a painfully disabled old age, start now:
Ideally weight bearing exercises that load the bone along its length

Impact exercise E.g. walking, running, jumping, skipping rope, step class, hitting a heavy punch bag.

Lifting: squats, press-ups, bench press, overhead press etc.

Squats are much better than lunges: The weight in a squat is transmitted down along the spine, through the hip, and down along the bones of the leg, whereas in a lunge, it is transmitted across the shinbone and puts pressure on the knee joint.

Cycling normally does NOT increase bone density as it does not really load bones along their length. A study found that cyclists who did no other exercise had low bone density because of the combo of this with their training Osteo

KETTLEBELLS

Useful exercise descriptions and videos: Kettle
Recommended for beginners (and shown in the link):
. Two-handed swing
. Sumo Deadlift
. Turkish Getup
. Swing
. Clean and Jerk
. Press

How to Choose a Gym (if you want to)

  • gym offpeak can be as cheap as £30 p.m. as you don't need expensive pools, sauna, juice bars, massage etc.
  • within journey time 20 mins
  • plenty of classes at times to suit you
  • creche if needed
  • don't bother with expense of a personal trainer.

Start with these classes if available:

  • weekly spin, because you can set your own resistance and speed 45-60 mins
  • any additional interval training class, see earlier for list.
  • weekly pump 60 mins
  • weekly abs class 15-30 mins

======================================

CALCULATORS:
Estimate your fitness age: FitAge
Estimate Vo2Max iTunes App: Vo2APP
Body Fat Calculator:BF
Healthy Body Fat Percentages at Different Ages:
HealthyBF
TDEE with detailed activity times: TDEE

More links: 52FastDietForum-Fasting & Exercise 52exercise GettingStronger.Org-Hormesis Hormesis GettingStronger.Org-Fitness Fitness LeanGains Protocols : Leangains MarksDailyApple-Home Workouts Without Equipment WorkAtHome

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 14/01/2014 22:29

Poor Betsy, hope your leg soon heals. Flowers
Your treatment sounds good. This maybe useful on exercsie thread:

Standard home treatment for MINOR muscle strains:

PRICE (Protection, Rest, Ice, Compression, Elevation)

Remove all constrictive clothing, or any jewelry, affecting the injured area. Then:
-Protect injured muscle from further injury.
-Rest it, i.e. avoid any painful,activity, including what caused the injury.
-Ice the area (20 minutes every hour while awake) to reduce inflammation and pain. Apply small ice packs, even packs of frozen veg, but NOT not to bare skin,e.g. wrap in a towel.
-Compression, via an elastic bandage, to provide support and decrease swelling. Do NOT wrap tightly.
-Elevate the injured area to decrease swelling, e.g. prop up a strained leg on a stool while sitting.

curveballs · 14/01/2014 22:50

Marking place, plan to spend time reading through this thread over next few days

ErrolTheDragon · 15/01/2014 08:17

Well, yesterday DH went to the gym and the dog got round the corner, did his business and then refused to go further, even though it was quite a nice day. Hmm CBA to go out alone after I'd returned him (and his bag).

About to start my exercises - question about planks (normal, not side). There's another thread specifically about them, quite a few people seem to be doing them on their hands and various implications that doing it on the forearms is easier (like doing knee press-ups). This doesn't tally with my experience of them, or my understanding of the forces involved. I found this which suggests that planks on the forearms are best for core strength but planks on the hands work the arms/shoulders more. Does that sound correct, and if so - given that when doing press-ups my upper body tires before my butt sags, should I do some of each perhaps rather than all forearm?

BetsyBell · 15/01/2014 08:19

Thanks BCF - leg is now ok, slightly twingey, not so much to be in pain but just enough to stop me being silly. I will focus on FORM next lesson rather than KICKING REALLY HARD.

Discovered an NSV though - the tube bandage I used for my thigh was one I'd originally bought for my knee and calf. Being of the pear-shaped, larger of thigh persuasion, this is a big deal! I think I spotted the beginning of muscle definition on my other thigh this morning too. Exciting times Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 15/01/2014 09:54

Erroll As you say, depends what muscles you want to emphasise, but neither form of plank is in the slightest a "softer" option.

Plank on forearms is more challenging to the abs / core: As the angle of the body becomes closer to parallel with the ground, it becomes harder for the trunk muscles to stabilize and maintain form.
However, the plank on the hands is tougher on the arms and shoulders.

See trainer discussion Here

A really challenging exercise is to switch from hands to forearms every couple of seconds, while keeping your back straight and knees off the ground.
Do that combo for even 45 seconds and you will probably be knackered.

ErrolTheDragon · 15/01/2014 10:06

Thanks Bigchoc - that's what I thought... my link was the same as yours.Grin

So, I did my shred, 3x50 sec forearm planks, 3x17 inclined press-ups and then 3x1 min extended arm planks using hex dumbells as handles which does help the wrists.

One of the levels of shred does the switching between hand and forearm, I've only been able to do it from the knee before - maybe I'll be able to do Big Girl ones this time round!

BigChocFrenzy · 15/01/2014 10:41

Btw: those who claim they can easily do plank on the forearms are often sticking their bum slightly in the air, instead of having a proper straight line.

Side planks (balancing on one hand and the edge of one foot) are very demanding, whereas forearm side plank and also side abs curls are comparatively easy.

BiscuitsAreMyDownfall · 15/01/2014 11:28

BigChoc how should my body feel when doing a proper plank? I've seen videos online, but I have no idea if I do it right.

BiscuitsAreMyDownfall · 15/01/2014 11:29

Ps I want to do forearm planks as it's my core I'm wanting to work when I do them.

BigChocFrenzy · 15/01/2014 11:54

Biscuits You need to concentrate on keep your entire trunk tight, especially your abs. I notice that I also keep my buttock muscles clenched, which helps ensure the body is in a straight line sloping down to your feet.
Shoulders & arms are also tight. You are basically freezing your whole body in the plank.

Don't forget to breathe regularly, sounds daft, but I mean don't hold your breath.

It is normal to feel sore lower back muscles, until they are trained. Just check your back is straight.

Stong women don't stick their bum in the air.
Smile

positively9something · 15/01/2014 12:01

Hi all

I thought I would pop in for some advice, I have been to the gym a few times in the last couple of weeks and done some walking, tiny bit of running and cycling. I have also done some squats at home, my muscle in my things at the front seems to look bigger and when I tense it then it sticks out.

Also I did an abs class and just under my boobs looks like I have a two pack, is that muscle or fat?

I am wondering if I build muscle instead of loosing fat? Any advise on what I should or shouldn't be doing?

I have booked in for a kettle bells class today

BigChocFrenzy · 15/01/2014 12:24

Positive Sounds like you are doing well, a good selection of exercises.
"What are those strange things ?"
"Muscles, pal !l"

I recommend you keep tracking your waist measurement, every week or two, because you may lose fat inches.

Also, if you haven't exercised much before, you are probably more aware anyway that you have those muscles.

I am building muscle and losing fat on 5:2, without consciously increasing my gym bunnying. Since muscle weighs more than the same volume of fat, my weight goes down very, very slowly.
You are 30 yrs younger, I think, so you may well lose a lot faster.

ErrolTheDragon · 15/01/2014 12:31

Don't forget to breathe regularly, sounds daft, but I mean don't hold your breath.

oh yes - meant to say I was looking at a youtube plank and this was specifically mentioned, he said holding your breath during isometric exercises can cause blood pressure spike.

I think I'm going to get DD to take a look at my plank form - now she's in yr10 they're using the schools 'fitness suite', - cardio machines and some weights but also she mentioned doing planks ... I'm sure she'll be only to pleased to critique my butt position! Grin

positively9something · 15/01/2014 13:07

Bigchoc - thank you, you are always very encouraging.

I'm feeling deflated today Hmm I had a big stupid muffin before the gym for no reason I wasn't even hungry Confused

Then at the gym felt sluggish probably because of the muffin.

The thing is I don't want the muscles to pop out in my belly and my thighs I want them to look slimmer and tonned. I love the strong and sexy female look but I don't want things popping out that make me look even bigger Angry

positively9something · 15/01/2014 13:08

Also not too sure about my age making me loose quicker as Ive been eating like a horse since Christmas so it's not helping

TalkinPeace · 15/01/2014 13:19

upped my weights in bodypump today. OW

BigChocFrenzy · 15/01/2014 13:52

oops, Positive, that may have been the undigested muffin bulging !

I think you are just more aware of your body now.
Muscles are much nicer than flab wobbling, but I doubt if you have built muscles yet that are really popping out, though, or I would be Envy ! Seriously, it takes a lot of work for a woman to grow really noticeable muscles and you can't possibly have done that much yet.

When you lose fat, your existing muscles, tendons, bones (ribs, pelvis, hips ?) may become more visible.

BiscuitsAreMyDownfall · 15/01/2014 14:22

Thanks for the plank advice BigChoc

I've found the perfect gym I'd like to go to crossfit the only problem being that as I work full-time it's not open late enough for me. Though for the next few weeks I can make Wednesday's just not sure for how long.

MazzleDazzle · 15/01/2014 16:03

Haven't had a chance to read the whole thread, but I will get caught up.

I'm on day 2 of both the plank & squat challenges and also working out intensely 3 mornings for 30 mins. Really feeling the benefits of the exercise. Struggling a bit to keep my eating in-check on NFDs though. Need to focus more on healthy eating and avoiding the biscuit barrel, which I seem to be dipping into more and more. Annoyed with myself as I thought I'd broken this habit.

ErrolTheDragon · 15/01/2014 16:22

Try moving the biscuit barrel somewhere less accessible maybe?

TalkinPeace · 15/01/2014 19:41

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-25728681
BigChoc - do you for the Beeb

BsshBossh · 15/01/2014 20:12

Thanks for that link TiP. So our weekly goal should be:
150 mins (2.5 hours) minimum cardio
1 hour weights/strength

I used to do this.

Back at the gym this week slowly building up fitness. Aiming for 4 sessions interval training on the treadmill (30 mins); have done 2 sessions already. Then next week will add in an extra 15 mins stepper. Then the week after that I will re-introduce gentle weights.

Breadandwine · 15/01/2014 23:46

Well, TiP, I followed your link and took the diabetes test - and I have to say it was superficial to say the least!

I've been given a 1 in 10 chance of getting Type 2 in the next ten years. Sad

However, the questionnaire made no reference to exercise or diet! No lifestyle questions at all!

Male
70+
White European
No relative with diabetes type 2
The lowest BMI it recognises is 25.
The lowest waist measurement is 35.3"
No history of high BP

And that's it!

Have a look at it - it's rubbish!

BigChocFrenzy · 15/01/2014 23:55

I'm surprised the BBC considers this news. Scientific and serious lifting articles for at least 10 years have said this: cardio and lifting substantially reduce the risk of getting diabetes.

Hell, it's even in my OP, among the reasons listed for exercising.

The required time & content for exercise agree with the other studies and is a lot more than the 20 mins daily walk that is generally publicised.

Yes, I easily do more than the 150 mins aerobic / cardio and 60 mins lifting.

How about the rest of you ?

BigChocFrenzy · 16/01/2014 00:03

Bssh I do hope you regain your fitness soon and have no further problems.

Can you do spinning ? It is very adjustable, can be very HIIT, and I would think is gentle on your bits.
Hmm
Useful to know if you would recommend it for other women on this thread who might have damaged their pelvic floor, or if there is some issue with spin I overlooked.