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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

The 5:2 thread number 34 - New Year (title courtesy of B&W) Come and join us and take CONTROL! Of your weight, and of your lives.

999 replies

BigChocFrenzyAteYourReindeer · 30/12/2013 01:10

The continuing thread for those of us following the 5:2 fast or other forms of fasting such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8.
The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012 and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat normally - or approximately your Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE - see explanation below). 4:3 is the same except you fast on 3 days in the week. Alternate-day fasting (ADF) is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. 16:8 is another form where you stick to only eating in an 8 hour window each day, therefore fasting for 16 hours each day.
By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.
You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.
WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.
MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website or app many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.
TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.
NFD = Non fast day
NSV = Non scale victory
Michael Mosley has a website to accompany his book on the subject. Please go check it out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!
Lurkers and new starters: please just jump in and post - you'll find a lot of support here and we’re a friendly bunch.
Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:
All our previous threads can be found by browsing through the fasting section of the site.
Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the tips and links that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!
eatriskier’s thread has some lovely inspiring stories which are worth checking out if you want some motivation to get started or keep going through a plateau. Please add your own too.
frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!
If you've been at this a while and are moving on to maintaining your goal weight, there is a thread here to discuss that.
Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon - link to that programme here.
A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.
This link nicely demonstrates that there are many body ‘right’ body shapes and types, because what we are actually aiming for is low body fat for fitness and health.
A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley himself, very informative if you're just starting. (I highly recommend this for an overview)
A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")
Something to consider if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI. (Though anecdotal evidence from these long-running threads may suggest otherwise…)
A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful.
A HUGE THANK YOU to Greeneggsandnicht for putting together all this info and resources into one concise OP text, much appreciated by so many 5:2ers!
Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this way of life!

OP posts:
ImABadGirl · 07/01/2014 12:10

zed I do the 16 hour thing so I make sure I don't eat after 8pm then I wait til 12pm the next day whether I'm on a fast or non fast day, so in effect I'm doing the 16:8 and also ADF, I really look forward to breaking my fast at midday Smile

Good luck, it's a fab woe

Not2bObvious · 07/01/2014 12:11

Toffee I weighed in yesterday morning at 11.7.8, this morning I was 11.6.8 - so 1 poundSad I'm blaming my new scales! I dunno, very stubborn this Xmas weight, seems to want to hang onto me!

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage · 07/01/2014 12:31

Thanks MelanieCheeks. I am not anywhere near the menopause yet but thank you for the suggestion.

Come on Not2bObvious! You lost a pound!! I went up!!

LilyJoAndMe · 07/01/2014 12:52

It's lovely to get positive remarks about my achievements- especially when before anyone else noticed. Thanks

BigChocFrenzy · 07/01/2014 12:54

For any newbies: FDs are easy and feel sooo good when you get used to them. You'll soon get the habit.

I fasted 39 hrs on 450 cals total and still had tons of energy for spin last night. I broke my fast today with a healthy lunch of fish with several veg and a side salad, no starches. I wasn't even tempted by all the ice creams, puds, danish etc in our canteen. My 80-cal dessert was a 20g of Stevia dark choc / blueberries I brought for my walk.

I won't eat again before CrossFit tonight.

zedzedzed · 07/01/2014 13:08

ImABadGirl and BetsyBell thanks for your replies, that's much clearer now. But then, BigChocFrenzy...I'm really confused by your post, why are you fasting for 39hrs on 450cals and then working out and restricting your calories on eating days too? Sounds kind of like my bad old crash diet, but I'm new and have probably missed the point and it's a variation on the 5:2? So sorry if I'm annoying you with all the questions or p-ing you off, just trying to find my way forward!

Elfina · 07/01/2014 13:09

I feel woozy, headachy and nauseous. I've not had carbs since Sunday night (FD yesterday) is this normal??

ImABadGirl · 07/01/2014 13:14

zed bigchoc has been doing 5:2 for a while and is quite hardcore! Just stick to TDEE on eat days and 500 on fast days and it'll all come together, you don't even have to do the 16 hour, I found it doable and works for me, once I start eating that's me for the day so the later I start the better.

BigChocFrenzy · 07/01/2014 13:16

Toffee I eat flaxmeal and oat bran / flakes (whatever proportions I fancy) instead of porridge. I just add boiling water and stir a lot - see the recipe in my post here last night.
Don't boil the cereal itself; the only cooking is from the water.
However, you can also bake etc with it Kids and Recipeideas
Flaxmeal has lots of antioxidants, lignans (phyonutrients), omega3, fibre and is very low GI health enefits

PostmanPat Why not maintain with 16:8 for a couple of weeks, give your bod a break ?

Doris Dr Varady recommends 1000 cals for BFing. I recommend you stick to that. Some people can manage 750, but you probably need to get used to 1000 FDs before you think of that.

Melanie You and your DM can have a contest!

BigChocFrenzy · 07/01/2014 13:23

Zed I save some NFD calories for the weekend / going out.
My huge fish and veg was at least 1200 cals, with the yummy olive oil on my salad. I'll have something after training to hit about 1800 for the day.

Up to now, I've over-eaten on NFDs which meant very slow weight loss, so I now want to keep just within TDEE over the 5 days.

DottiestDoris · 07/01/2014 13:34

whenshewasbad and bigchoc thank you for your thoughts and advice. I had granola with yoghurt for breakfast this morning and felt a bit better but am certainly not myself yet. I think maybe you're right-1000 calories is better for me than 750. I just really want to jump in to this woe and not go too softly softly. I'm impatient to see results. On the plus side, I was 2lb lighter this morning.

CuckooAtchooUhOh · 07/01/2014 13:34

Zed as Betsy said plus most other experienced 5:2ers - we all do our own versions. A lot of us are doing this for the health benefits as much as, if not more than weight loss.

That means that the fast part, is the more important. It is the time between last eating and next eating.

Breaking it down BigChoc is saying she came in within her 500 cals ie 450.
And that she managed to go a whole 39 hrs before eating during her fast day.

For some of us we find that not eating at all really during a fd, or leaving it until much later in the day is our preferred method. For various reasons.

Mine are:

-If I eat brek/lunch it sets off the munchies.

-Towards end of 2013 I found it much easier to not bother with a meal at all. Not having to think about food was far easier for me. I still racked up about 250 with milky drinks, bit of choc/fruit in evening if wanted. But in all honesty I wasn't denying myself either. I just wasn't that hungry. That's what made it easier than having to think of what to do with my 500 cal.

I'm not sure if any of us longer fast perioders (?!) started out this way. Rather, it was a natural progression.

Hence why we all stick our tuppence worth in, but will keep reminding you all that you need to find/do what best suits you.

For instance, I am having first fd in 3 weeks today. Currently expecting to go all fast day with just drinks. But, I will eat if I want to later, or even defer the fd if it gets too much of a struggle, because I know that over a month or so it seems to take on life of its own and gets much easier anyway. Well for me and many others it did. But no guarantees or refunds - sorry!! Grin

zedzedzed · 07/01/2014 13:36

ImABadGirl Thanks a lot for your help! Phew. Right. I've got it now. Am not worried about the fast days as I can do not eating at all standing on my head (bad old crash diet habits) but I have ended up this chubster through binging and starving, over and over for many years, and from too many babies recently, I'm hoping the normal eating days in this WOE will put a stop to that pattern and lead to a way of first losing and then MAINTAINING my weight because as I understand it you are supposed to eat, within reason, whatever you fancy within your TDEE? So there should be no tasteless deprivation and fat-less nothings and constant wanting which inevitably leads to an entire pizza.
Am I right that I can eat from all the food groups up to my TDEE on eating days, but if I restrict the calories beneath my TDEE body will go into starvation mode and this woe will not work? That's the hard part, not falling into old habits and eating too few calories on normal days (which leads to misery/binging).
Lastly, sorry, I know everyone's different, but what do most people following the regular 5:2 without going under their TDEE averagely loose over a month say? Just so used to crashing that I need to know what to expect...though may not weigh in at all as it may be demotivating if it's very slow? What d'ya all think? X

zedzedzed · 07/01/2014 13:38

Thanks CuckooAtchooUhOh

CuckooAtchooUhOh · 07/01/2014 13:49

Right then losers!!!

Let's kick the crap out of this fasting malarkey!

To all 5:2 ers HAPPY NEW YEAR and Welcome Newbies - how many will still be going strong by end of Jan eh??!

To all my 5:2 friends - I have missed you all soooooo much. This thread is all of those lovely things we have said before. A place of learning, support, control over our lives, fun, and friendship.

I have felt blue over Christmas. Not unconnected to being out of touch with this thread, thanks to shitey british weather me thinks!

Am already feeling so much more positive today, getting back into routine. Getting to catch up on here and get involved again with this woe/wol feels like a ray of sunshine after the rain. (Let's gloss over fact this is changing every 5mins out there in RL. In here it's all tweeting birds and smell of roses)

So far fd going fine. Green tea only!

CuckooAtchooUhOh · 07/01/2014 14:01

Zed mine was 5lbs over first 3 fd. Then settled to roughly 1lb a week. I stalled on a couple of occasions for a couple of weeks at a time (but never went up). This was usually followed by a 2/3 lb loss.

Yes! Don't deprive yourself on nfd. If you struggle to fit in quantities of food because your stomach is shrinking - just be a bit more generous with the calorie content. If you tend to want to eat loads then go lighter on calorie content.

So either have that bacon sarnie with real butter, or tuna salad wrap!

Whenever poss avoid diet/low fat food. It is full of crap. Eat whole/real full fat foods. Just in moderation. Much better for your body and satisfying for your taste buds.

I know for many of us we want to lose fat but it should also be about being as healthy as we possibly can too. That means not pumping your body full of artificial rubbish as often as you possibly can! (And filling some fat cat bastards pockets at same time!!!!!)

ImABadGirl · 07/01/2014 14:02

zed with regards to eating on eat days, yes eat what you like up to your TDEE, my TDEE is 1977 and I've just had a handful of quality street, I know what you mean cause if I feel deprived I crave rubbish but even when you're fasting you can say to yourself 'I can have it tomorrow'

That's what's so good about this woe of eating it's a way of eating as opposed a nasty diet that will make you feel rubbish and destined to fail, once you get the hang of it you'll be surprised just how long long you go go without food, just remember hunger is normal it doesn't mean you're going to drop dead!

Sophiste · 07/01/2014 14:02

Hi everyone and a belatedly happy New Year - nice to see old friends and new faces.

I haven't posted much lately but I do check into the threads and feel inspired by all the success and support. Had a good Christmas with lots of nice compliments on my trimmer figure and general healthy glow. I played it by ear on the fasting front and just went with my instincts which turned out to mean 6:1 over the peak festive period. I didn't hold back on festive treats (boozy, chocolatey or otherwise) and didn't gain (or lose) an ounce, so am pleased with that.

Have now done 2 proper fasts and a mini in 2014 and am almost relieved to be back on track. They come so easily nowadays, which I hope is an encouraging message for those just starting out (I am 5 months in).

Hope the year brings wonderful things for you all.

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage · 07/01/2014 14:19

Thank you BigChoc.

WhenSheWasBadSheWasExhausted · 07/01/2014 14:23

betsy Iget colder on fast days, but I've also lost many kilos of fat so it's not surprising! Grin so if I lose weight I'm going to feel even colder Hmm

doris I know what you mean wanting to get things moving re weight loss. How old is your little one. Mine is 10 weeks. This is probably tmi but I feel so uncomfortable at this weight I'm not prepared to let dh see me naked. Need to lose some weight so we can resume a normal relationship.

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage · 07/01/2014 14:27

I just did some stats again and here are the results.

In no particular order Grin

BMI - 25.8 (that sounds v bad.)
BMR - 1407 (I have no idea what this is.)
TDEE - 1689.

Darnley · 07/01/2014 14:28

Right then.
Had normal meal at 6 pm yesterday, then weight watcher soup today at 7 am.
Am planning to have sea bass for dinner tonight at 6 pm then eggs for breakfast tomorrow.

Does this sound right ? If so, will repeat on Thursday.

Feeling ok so far.

cathyandclaire · 07/01/2014 14:29

Hi there can I join you?
I'm a long-term bootcamper (lost 17lb and maintained for over a year) 5lb up over Xmas and trying to find a slightly more flexible/forgiving way to maintain my weight. I love bootcamp- but low-carb can be a little frustrating, putting on 5lbs overnight when I cheat Blush!
Has anyone gone from low-carb to 5:2 with success? I'm planning on staying low-ish carb but probably not in ketosis.
First fast day yesterday apart from a few false starts last year I left eating as late as possible and then had a delicious ham and mushroom omelette and some yoghurt, felt OK. 1lb down today :)

zedzedzed · 07/01/2014 14:29

Thanks ImaBad and Cuckoo that's really reassuring, I've been lurking and reading for a while and at times the lingo reads like some scary-ass Pro-Ana website about how best to starve yourself...but once you get your head around the normal eating days it makes perfect sense in context.
'I can have it tomorrow' will be a total GODSEND as it's the 'there will be no end to this Hell and no spaghetti EVER' which has sabotaged my every 'diet' in the past; I do not want to live in a potato-less world. But 2 potato-less days a week and regular servings of all the food groups the rest of the time...I can live with that, I can live with that forever.

Just wondering,when you get to a plateau do you add an extra FD per week for a while or what? Just planning ahead so I don't get disheartened when I do stall.
Yeah, I don't do any diet food now either, no artificial sweetener, no diet coke as I was an addict...although I do still like Weight Watchers dessert yogs as they're yummier than full fat puds,(and only 58cals) oh and I keep only light cheese in the fridge as the merest morsel of real cheese triggers drooling and pizza longing.
Does anyone know if there are there any downsides to a total fast (bar liquids) on your fast days? It might be easier than just a wee meal for me. Thanks for all the help. X

Darnley · 07/01/2014 14:34

Hi zed.
I know what you mean. Being able to eat tomorrow is the best thing about this.

I will be interested to read any responses to your question about increasing to 3 fast days.

Me and dh need to lose a lot of weight and I feel really optimistic about this method.