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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

The 5:2 thread number 34 - New Year (title courtesy of B&W) Come and join us and take CONTROL! Of your weight, and of your lives.

999 replies

BigChocFrenzyAteYourReindeer · 30/12/2013 01:10

The continuing thread for those of us following the 5:2 fast or other forms of fasting such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8.
The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012 and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat normally - or approximately your Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE - see explanation below). 4:3 is the same except you fast on 3 days in the week. Alternate-day fasting (ADF) is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. 16:8 is another form where you stick to only eating in an 8 hour window each day, therefore fasting for 16 hours each day.
By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.
You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.
WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.
MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website or app many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.
TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.
NFD = Non fast day
NSV = Non scale victory
Michael Mosley has a website to accompany his book on the subject. Please go check it out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!
Lurkers and new starters: please just jump in and post - you'll find a lot of support here and we’re a friendly bunch.
Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:
All our previous threads can be found by browsing through the fasting section of the site.
Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the tips and links that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!
eatriskier’s thread has some lovely inspiring stories which are worth checking out if you want some motivation to get started or keep going through a plateau. Please add your own too.
frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!
If you've been at this a while and are moving on to maintaining your goal weight, there is a thread here to discuss that.
Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon - link to that programme here.
A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.
This link nicely demonstrates that there are many body ‘right’ body shapes and types, because what we are actually aiming for is low body fat for fitness and health.
A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley himself, very informative if you're just starting. (I highly recommend this for an overview)
A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")
Something to consider if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI. (Though anecdotal evidence from these long-running threads may suggest otherwise…)
A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful.
A HUGE THANK YOU to Greeneggsandnicht for putting together all this info and resources into one concise OP text, much appreciated by so many 5:2ers!
Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this way of life!

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 04/01/2014 22:42

somewhere That quote was Varady's own dumbed-down description, presumably for the cell repair and reduced risk of dementia, since she didn't use the word "hormesis" once in the entire book - I did a kindle search for it.

BigChocFrenzy · 04/01/2014 23:31

Somewhere Promising news. Sounds like something chemical / hormonal has changed after your DD started lunching elsewhere.
4000 is impressive on a regular basis - you said DD had a huge appetite.

somewherebecomingrain · 05/01/2014 07:33

Ooh will google hormesis.

RavenousRunner · 05/01/2014 07:58

Hi all, can I join you for some New Year's inspiration?

I started 5:2 last May and loved it - went from 11 and a half stone to 10 and a half by August (I'm 5'9"), then went on holiday and lost a few more pounds sticking to TDEE with lots of exercise. Once I started a new job in September I completely stopped thinking about my eating at all, but still only put on a pound (despite my office stocking the fridge with KitKats! Luckily the little 100 calorie ones).

Then it was Christmas, I went to the countryside, and came back 5 pounds heavier. It's not going away, and even being careful this week I seem to have gained another pound. I think I broke whatever 5:2 had fixed. So, time to start again! First FD since the summer planned for tomorrow.

I'd like to get down to 10 stone by March when I have a 10k scheduled - maybe a bit too ambitious - but at least to take off all the cheese and yorkshire pudding which has settled on my bum. Will probably start at about 1000 calories and see how it goes though, I'm a pupil barrister so everyday is like a job interview and I can't afford a rumbling stomach in court!

I lurked a bit in the summer and loved this thread, it stopped me giving up on FDs more than once. Enjoy your Sunday roasts everyone!

ImABadGirl · 05/01/2014 08:16

so weigh in this morning and I've lost 3lbs which I'm very happy with considering it's my totm, NFD for me today and looking forward to 1130 so I can eat, it's definitely getting easier Smile

Not2bObvious · 05/01/2014 08:34

Well done Badgirl! That's close to a quarter of a stone, great work. Welcome back RR, the way you took to this WOL/woe last year is v impressive, going on holidays and losing weight is some acheivement as is only gaining a pound since starting the new job. I hear you on the stubborn Xmas weight but let's be fair to ourselves, it's not even 2 weeks since the main day and then there was New Years, take into account lead up to it all and come dibs it's a good 3-4 weeks of disruption. So like a pregnancy, 9 months on/9 months off, for choc/wine /cheese/crisp baby 3-4 weeks on/3-4 weeks off. I aim to shift my choccie belly by the end of the month.
Still sniffly this morning but as long as the rain keeps off and even if it doesn't, have an umbrella, I'm off for a huge walk which will incorporate a lot of shopping so that'll keep my mind off food til my decadent lunch. Anyone else any plans today?

MazzleDazzle · 05/01/2014 08:37

9lbs Definite Shock?

It's taken me a month to lose that. Well done! Keep at it and just think where you'll be in a month!

I'm having another FD today, so it will be 4:3 this week. I feel like I need it as the weight is very slow in coming off and I've been so lazy the last few weeks.

My shiny new form of torture exercise regime starts tomorrow!

mummyof2girlsx · 05/01/2014 09:45

Well I seem to have lost all self control over the festive period Sad
I have ate and drank far too much, although it was enjoyable at the time, my tummy is much more rounded and feeling bloated, NOT looking forward to braving the scales tomorrow.

FD tomorrow (first in over 2 weeks Shock)

Hope everyone had an enjoyable Christmas and New Year Smile

WhenSheWasBadSheWasExhausted · 05/01/2014 10:00

Well done on the 9lbs definate

mazzle 4:3 sounds impressive

I've done two fasts and have lost 2lbs, not too bad considering I'm not eating particularly mindfully on my none fast days.

MelanieCheeks · 05/01/2014 10:16

Morning all, looking forward to getting back into routine fasting this week, after the festive abandonment.

I did buy The Times yesterday, for the recipes, even if I don't intend to follow Varady's Every Other Day approach. I shall report back on the courgette and chorizo dish.

positively9something · 05/01/2014 11:00

Morning all, well after Christmas put on one pound which I was happy with and didn't feel like I had over eaten a lot. But since New Years I have felt bloated, miserable and have put on about 3 1/2 pounds! I know it doesn't sound a lot but that means that I have really only lost 7lbs since starting 5:2 at the beginning of November. It also means I am now 10.2.6 and not 9 something.

I'm keeping the name as I am going to loose the weight and be 9something very soon Grin

I need to get motivated to exercise! Twice this week I thought I would try to get to the gym but I just don't fancy it at the moment Confused

What exercise can I do to get things moving along quickly? I'm feeling very unfit

PoshPaula · 05/01/2014 13:23

I too am fasting tomorrow for the first time in two weeks. I need it! In a weird way I am looking forward to it. Although it will be really tough.... But I can't wait to feel less bloated and sluggish.

BigChocFrenzy · 05/01/2014 13:34

Hormesis The exercise thread has a lot in the OP and other posts.

Summary:
Alternating between “extremes” intervals of feast and fast (like 5:2) or intense exercise and rest, makes the body more resilient and enables repair.
The following recovery period avoids damage from over-stressing.
Current theory is that it may reduce biological aging and risks of some diseases such as cancer, dementia.
Hormosis Mattson and Hormesis and BendAge

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage · 05/01/2014 13:38

Afternoon all Smile.

Been cleaning like a ma woman all morning, bits of my lunch taste strange, water I just had was vile. Who knew you could get sympathy expecting side effectsHmmConfused.

Yes, DH said I should complain in M&S too but I am sure he was only joking. Was 100% my fault.

I have checked and it is honeycomb cream not liquor from M&S.

I have made our roast dinner and prepped all the 8 vegetables for the soup and am preparing it now so I can actually have a decent sit down to catch up on here.

Welcome to all the newbies.

Well done to all the maintainers and those who have lost. I have maintained for 3days but will be starting a (how long *Not2b/) LOF so hope to have lost something at the end of it. Just had a home made mince pie instead of after tea since I won't be having tea.

Southeastdweller · 05/01/2014 14:00

BigChoc Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the Dr Varady book. I got The Times yesterday and intrigued that according to her "you don't have to be careful about what you eat on feed days". I also note that she's only sampled 16 human subjects and am really Hmm about 100 calorie snacks being allowed on Diet Days. I think I'll get the book from the library later in the month.

I'm going to read the whole article in the gym now and sorry for not linking but it's copyrighted or something and MN would delete my post...

BigChocFrenzy · 05/01/2014 14:47

SouthEast

The Times was wrong about the # of test subjects: Kindle won't let me copy paragraphs from Varady's book and I can't post screenshots; however, the book refers to "7 clinical trials involving nearly 400 people, with results published in 20 scientific articles".
I think Michelle Harvey only had 16 subjects for her 2-day diet study. maybe they confused that ?

Varady's "snacks" fit in well with my post-training shake, but I'm damn sure very few of her target audience are mad gym bunnies intensive exercisers. Maybe she found a snack necessary for diet compliance?
Hmm
The book says "eat what you want on feast days" and that "noone overeats", but she has written elsewhere that this holds for 90% of people.
Maybe her supervised test subjects didn't over-eat, but in the real world, in which hundreds of people have ADFed for years (e.g. Dr Johnson et al), maybe the consensus is that 10% do binge and hence need to monitor their FDs.
If that 10% eat 25% TDEE on FDs, then presumably they eat at least 175% TDEE every other day, regularly, not the occasional frenzy.
Shock

BigChocFrenzy · 05/01/2014 14:49

P.S. Her test subjects lost slightly more weight and fat on high-fat NFDs than low-fat ones. That part of "eat what you want" is true.

Not2bObvious · 05/01/2014 15:27

Ok Toffee I've officially started my 24 hours, just finished mammoth lunch, which I commenced at 2pm, so slight cheating or not, my 24 ends at 2pm tomorrow. Am full to the gills, black tea/coffee/miso soup for the rest if the day, early night planned(that's me being brave, I have it in the press, I'll never drink it, no feckin hope !)
So once the wine wears off (it was Sunday lunch, we do have a tipple of a SundayWink)
No exercise todaySad Wind & rain conspired and the weather man say no way so sense prevailed. I'd go on the treadmill only I'd probably fall off, one meal day which started with a glass of Pinot G while prepping lunch may have been a decadent step too farGrin

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage · 05/01/2014 15:40

I started mine at 1.15pm. I did have a tiny piece of potato earlier as I made the soup and forgot to put the potato in, simmered for another 20 minutes and then tried it but I am claiming from 1.15pm. So no food for 24 hours. Is it any drinks or just water? And how does it count if I am allowed to blend my soup down to liquid when it is vegetables? Confused.

BiscuitsAreMyDownfall · 05/01/2014 15:59

Just got back from swimming. I know it's not the highest impact exercise, but I enjoyed it. I'm going every Tuesday night while the nights are dark. Sundays will either be a long run or 45 mins in the pool. Once the DCs are older so I can go straight from work I will join a gym, but ATM I just don't have the time or money. So for now it's running and swimming with some ab exercises at home.

It's also just occurred to me that I'm at work tomorrow. First day in my new job. Also a FD tomorrow, might as well start my new job in the same way as I intend to carry on. If I just drink water I won't associate my desk with other drinks. That was my theory with my last job and it worked out well.

CJMommy · 05/01/2014 16:32

Am doing my first ever FD tomorrowConfused. Thought I would try 16:8 too so won't eat after 8pm tonight-next food at midday tomorrow. My hope is that after a few FD's I'll be able to stretch it to tea time i.e. 18 ish hours!

I think I'll have a soup and fruit day tomorrow until I can get to read the recipe thread in more detail? Although i do have a nice piece if salmon in the fridge so may have that with lots of salad for tea tomorrow?

Just a few questions, can I still have coffee with milk/sweetener whilst I fast between 8pm and midday? What about fruit squash? Do I just need to count the cals in the milk/squash?

Stood in scales this morning and am a whole stone HmmShock heavier than I was 5 months ago-what the hell happened??? So now I am 2.5 stones away from my goal as opposed to 1.5! Grrrrr! I so want to be able to do this instead of sabotaging myself at every opportunity!

On a positive note, I am also doing the 'drying out in January' thing as got into the habit of a large glass of wine or two every night. Shock

CJMommy · 05/01/2014 16:34

One more thing, what's Miso soup?

postmanpatscat · 05/01/2014 16:34

Good luck for tomorrow biscuits hope the new job goes well.

I will probably be a Monday faster too, time to get back in the habit. I have achieved SWATH of a sort, as I'm still within my maintenance zone (just!). I ran a PB of 56:18 for 10k this morning and have been doing 16:8 most days this week so something must be working.

Not2bObvious · 05/01/2014 16:34

Not too sure toffee, I have a recollection of 50 cals or under. You did each something decent by 1.15? I've eaten my tdee, as I reckoned I was treating it the same as any normal nfd except I was closing the kitchen wayyy earlier than the normal 7pm. It's not a starvation exercise, it's just an easier way, ime, of doing a 24 hour fast. Certainly isn't starvation in my case, I had a HUGE lunch/pudding. Will be in bed by 9pm