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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

The 5:2 thread number 34 - New Year (title courtesy of B&W) Come and join us and take CONTROL! Of your weight, and of your lives.

999 replies

BigChocFrenzyAteYourReindeer · 30/12/2013 01:10

The continuing thread for those of us following the 5:2 fast or other forms of fasting such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8.
The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012 and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat normally - or approximately your Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE - see explanation below). 4:3 is the same except you fast on 3 days in the week. Alternate-day fasting (ADF) is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. 16:8 is another form where you stick to only eating in an 8 hour window each day, therefore fasting for 16 hours each day.
By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.
You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.
WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.
MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website or app many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.
TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.
NFD = Non fast day
NSV = Non scale victory
Michael Mosley has a website to accompany his book on the subject. Please go check it out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!
Lurkers and new starters: please just jump in and post - you'll find a lot of support here and we’re a friendly bunch.
Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:
All our previous threads can be found by browsing through the fasting section of the site.
Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the tips and links that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!
eatriskier’s thread has some lovely inspiring stories which are worth checking out if you want some motivation to get started or keep going through a plateau. Please add your own too.
frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!
If you've been at this a while and are moving on to maintaining your goal weight, there is a thread here to discuss that.
Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon - link to that programme here.
A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.
This link nicely demonstrates that there are many body ‘right’ body shapes and types, because what we are actually aiming for is low body fat for fitness and health.
A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley himself, very informative if you're just starting. (I highly recommend this for an overview)
A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")
Something to consider if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI. (Though anecdotal evidence from these long-running threads may suggest otherwise…)
A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful.
A HUGE THANK YOU to Greeneggsandnicht for putting together all this info and resources into one concise OP text, much appreciated by so many 5:2ers!
Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this way of life!

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 04/01/2014 18:27

Flowers and (({hugs})) to Bssh, Not2b and anyone else with lurgies in this miserable weather, Oh, it is so long until spring !
Also for Toffee and her bruises after that fall.

Betsy Many thanks for those interesting links. I agree it is frustrating though:

a) Why can't they do scientific studies on 5:2 (so the NHS and others stop saying it is 'unproven') ?
-Thousands of people are doing 5:2 and it is a a sustainable longterm WOL for almost any healthy person.

  • In contrast the monthly 5-day fasts are something only a tiny % of people would do and which would not be possible for many people on health grounds, e.g. older people. We have already seen the problems some intense women exercisers have had with 16:8 and ADF.

b) Why won't the NHS sponsor 5:2 studies since so many Brits are losing weight on it, instead of complaining "evidence is limited" and still pushing that tired old "balanced diet, regular exercise, less alcohol" ?
-FFS many people already have a healthy lifestyle, but still get fatter with age.

  • It would take very little work to ask 5:2ers if fasting hindered their exercise.
  • Also, it is sloppy work that the NHS didn't find the Michelle Harvey studies in their previous version of the 5:2 article.
Not2bObvious · 04/01/2014 18:54

Toffee what if you blend your portion of soup to liquid? Then you can keep to Lof Grin Or failing that, save it for lunch on Monday? It sounds delish!
Thanks all for the well wishes, sweating after too many chillis in my thai but that's got to be good, get it all out. Having a glass of medicinal wineWink

LikeaHurricane · 04/01/2014 19:13

I believe the booklet in the paper today is an extract they published a while ago based on Michelle Harvie's studies/book. It is slightly different to the way most of us on here do IF but she is a Cancer Specialist based in Manchester and has conducted 10 years of research on IF. She is also referenced in Michael Moseley and Mimi Spencer's book as was Krista Varady. It's not a wrong way of practising IF, just different. There are loads of forms of IF and it's been around for years.
By the way, Mimi Spencer is now fortunate enough to have given up the majority of her newspaper columns and is studying to teach yoga. Both her and MM have made millions from 5 to 2 so I can kind of understand Varady being a bit naffed off considering the years she has been conducting research on humans.

BsshBossh · 04/01/2014 19:17

Isn't the 2-day diet more restrictive ie 2 consecutive days no-carb fasts followed by 5 days eating a healthy Med diet?

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage · 04/01/2014 19:18

Inspired Not2b!!! I will do that if it is allowed.

I think my stomach has shrunk. We finished tea at 5. About half an hour ago I had some fruit and nut (no telling me off for snacking!) and am half way through a small glass of honeycomb liquor. I feel unpleasantly full Sad. And a little bit tipsy Grin.

BigChocFrenzy · 04/01/2014 19:19

Varady re ADF & Health (in her book)

Probably apply to some extent to all IF:

  • LDL lowered, in particular the dangerous hard dense LDL particles
  • Large increase in adiponectin, a hormone which protects the heart
  • Brain cells strengthened
  • Muscle is retained or, with intense exercise, increased (detail in exercise thread)

She doesn't specifically mention hormesis though, which is surprising. I found the book too dumbed down.

BsshBossh · 04/01/2014 19:20

honeycomb liquor oh yum!

mscnile · 04/01/2014 19:24

Evening all. NFD here but not going as overboard as I usually do on a weekend, plus yest was NFD and came in at 1000 calories so making up for my pitiful FD attempt on thurs, think I may need to have a word with myself Hmm

Sorry to hear some of you are still or newly poorly, it's a rubbish time of year for it. I need to get out running, wish the weather would sort itself out.

Toffee I hope you're ok after falling. I agree with you about the mail article, read it earlier and despaired.

Next FD is Monday, tomorrow is blowout roast to celebrate the end of the hols/commiserate being back to school...

mscnile · 04/01/2014 19:25

Oh honeycomb liqueur sounds gorgeous, where can I get some?!

LikeaHurricane · 04/01/2014 19:27

Yes Bssh it is exactly that. Like I said it's just a different form of IF and would not suit me as it is too restrictive but it is backed up by a lot of research conducted on humans for its cancer prevention benefits amongst others. I just wanted to make the point that it's not someone just jumping on the 5 to 2 bandwagon and putting out bad advice. Smile

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage · 04/01/2014 19:39

Honeycomb liquor is from Marks and Spencers. It think it is about £8 a bottle.

Did I mention I fell over in said M&S in front of loads of people Grin.

My wrist still really hurts. Bummer.

Not2bObvious · 04/01/2014 20:07

Could have been worse Toffee, could have been in Tesco Wink
It wasn't not a normal fall, it was an M&S fall Grin

BetsyBell · 04/01/2014 20:25

Have they made millions Hurricane?

Maybe that's why Varady's been dumbed down, Thanks again for the highlights BCF - I'm absorbing it all with interest :)

BetsyBell · 04/01/2014 20:27

It wasn't not a normal fall, it was an M&S fall

Love it Not2! Hope you're ok Toffs - if you were in the US you'd be obliged to sue M&S for that!

BetsyBell · 04/01/2014 20:30

There's little longterm-ism in this country BCF - it could save the NHS future millions to pump a bit of money into research, but any given current govt won't do it as it will effectively likely 'benefit' a different govt.

WhenSheWasBadSheWasExhausted · 04/01/2014 21:06

An M&S fall Grin hope you are ok toffee

Fast day finished, came in just under 1000 cals (breast feeding) so quite pleased with myself. Going to see friends tomorrow and have already bought cake for it Smile, will have to limit myself to just one slice.

postmanpatscat · 04/01/2014 21:07

Hello! Can't begin to catch up with the last 13 pages but will have a go tomorrow when I should be lesson planning Went to visit my mum in the south west and practically had to swim home, we were glad we had a 4x4! Feel so sorry for those who have been flooded/evacuated, we have been lucky in London compared to many others.

A breezy well done losers/fasters and get well soon to those who need it - that will have to do for now!

LikeaHurricane · 04/01/2014 21:08

Ok probably a slight exaggeration with the millions but with three best selling books between them it will be a lot. And good on them, I just hope the scientists who have undertaken the years of research of the effects of IF on humans who have been referenced in one of those books benefit too.

BigChocFrenzy · 04/01/2014 21:43

Bssh,Hurricane

I have the Michelle Harvey book as Kindle and you are right: 2 consecutive days of 650 low carb cals, then 5 days of Mediterranean TDEE.

She writes that the 2-day diet produced more weight loss, waist reduction and lower insulin, also better adherence, than daily CR.

The 5:2 book quoted extensive scientific studies that she, Varady and Mattson did.

Michael Mosley and Mimi Spencer used themselves as guinea pigs, but didn't do scientific studies.
So, Harvie & Varady didn't jump on the bandwagon; they did most of the the flipping work !!!

Only Mattson has not publicly expressed annoyance at the 5:2 book.

Ironically, Mosley goes more into the science in their book than the 2 scientists did, especially Varady.

Varady's book has the occasional fascinating snippet which I've reported on our threads, but it is only 220 pages, with the 2 main chapters being recipes / ready meal lists for main meal and "snack".
She sings the praises of snacks (sorry, tip) but I think she means more a healthy mini-meal than junk.

BigChocFrenzy · 04/01/2014 21:52

I still think our 5:2 is the most doable and sustainable WOL for the real world, outside the supervised studies.

5:2 enables more enjoyment and a normal social life because:

  • instead of Mediterranean, we eat what we want for TDEE for 5 days and
  • we can move our FDs to fit our schedule.

ADF produces more weight loss for some, but it is not a longterm WOL and is more likely to cause problems for intensive exercisers.

DefiniteMaybe · 04/01/2014 22:07

Hi everyone, I've just stumbled across this thread, can I join in?
I started 5:2 last Saturday, had a FD last Saturday, Wednesday and today. Today's fast has come to 501 calories according to MFP.
I found the first 2 fast days fairly easy but have struggled a bit today. Am off to bed soon, can't eat while sleeping!

DefiniteMaybe · 04/01/2014 22:08

Oh forgot to add, I've lost 9lbs this week which is a good chunk of the 100lbs I need to lose to reach a healthy bmi.

BetsyBell · 04/01/2014 22:22

Hello Definitmaybe! 9lbs eh? Sounds like you've started this WOE in style!

somewherebecomingrain · 04/01/2014 22:32

bigchoc thanka so much for varady précis. que? Sounds great but what does that mean?

Lovely quick catch up. Don't know if people have followed my epic NFD overeating (4000cal no problem) but dd taking less by breast and have ha a stark NSV today. After mini fasting weds/thurs and pigging out on Friday, today I Actually could not physically eat lunch and stomach felt v uncomfortable a la bsssh.

Just had soup for dinner. Dp sent me out for chocolate and so I had some but very strange for a fast to choose me rather than me choose a fast iykwim.

Have waited a long time for this!

BigChocFrenzy · 04/01/2014 22:38

Wow, Definite, you are really motoring on this WOE !