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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

The 5:2 thread number 32 - We can eat it tomorrow: toffees, toffee sponge or even toffee sausages!

999 replies

TurkeyAtYuleHoHo · 04/12/2013 09:32

The continuing thread for those of us following the 5:2 fast or other forms of fasting such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012 and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat normally - or approximately your Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE - see explanation below). 4:3 is the same except you fast on 3 days in the week. Alternate-day fasting (ADF) is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. 16:8 is another form where you stick to only eating in an 8 hour window each day, therefore fasting for 16 hours each day.

By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.

You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.

WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website or app many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

NFD = Non fast day

NSV = Non scale victory

Michael Mosley has a website to accompany his book on the subject. Please go check it out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

Lurkers and new starters: please just jump in and post - you'll find a lot of support here and we’re a friendly bunch.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

All our previous threads can be found by browsing through the fasting section of the site.

Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the tips and links that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

eatriskier’s thread has some lovely inspiring stories which are worth checking out if you want some motivation to get started or keep going through a plateau. Please add your own too.

frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

If you've been at this a while and are moving on to maintaining your goal weight, there is a thread here to discuss that.

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

There's a link to the aforementioned Horizon programme here.

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

This link nicely demonstrates that there are many body ‘right’ body shapes and types, because what we are actually aiming for is low body fat for fitness and health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley himself, very informative if you're just starting. (I highly recommend this for an overview)

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Something to consider if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful.

A HUGE THANK YOU to Greeneggsandnicht for putting together all this info and resources into one concise OP text, much appreciated by so many 5:2ers!

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!

OP posts:
Talkinpeace · 06/12/2013 17:43

Wine tonight - but not too much as I have to leave for work at 8.30 in the morning : 3 hour board meetings with politics and fireworks are SUCH fun !

dingdongduckyfuzz · 06/12/2013 17:47

Champagne and fish and chips, I'm a classy girl!

dingdongduckyfuzz · 06/12/2013 17:51

Welcome newbies!

On the dh front, I'm very lucky (not as lucky as him though, and he knows it!) and am looking forward to him going out tonight without me Xmas Grin but would be really fed up if that was his expected 'right' and I got nothing. I previously earned more than him and have only recently gone freelance, which has changed the balance somewhat. I used to rely on him and make massive demands on his time though.

MariaRossa · 06/12/2013 17:58

Hi all, thanks for the welcome - it feels good to be a proper member at last! It occcurs to me that my "it's all easy-peasy" initial post might be a bit disingenuous - had I not been afraid of boring you all to death, I probably should have added that this came along at the perfect time for me. I was about 9 months in to what turned out to be a 15 month period of being unable to excercise due to injury, and while I have always been fat, I used to be relatively fit. In an attempt to stem some of the damage of the exercise lay-off, I had already made some changes to my eating patterns - restricting cake/biscuits/chocolate to the weekends only, not eating anything after my evening meal, and trying to reduce my portion size. I'm sure these things made a huge difference to my ability to fast in the early days, as although I still can't claim to manage Tip's NO SNACKING, I was at least getting towards BandW's No (evening) snacking mantra. Sorry if I made it sound like it should be no bother to anyone who might be struggling out there!

(Gosh Turkey/Cuckoo I see what you meant - once you start it's hard to stop, isn't it?!)

EatriskierDrinkAndBeMerry · 06/12/2013 18:04

I am mainly lucky with dh. he is wonderful to me, does anything for the kids etc. except when there's a problem that needs solving or thinking about. then he buries his head in the sand or expects me to figure everything out. and because I stupidly generally do he waits for me to completely meltdown before even contemplating helping in that department. I doubt anyone has a perfect partner.

although I'm out for Xmas party number 2 tonight, with the next 2 Fridays also seeing me head off. he has multiple parties on the next few wednesdays so he is fine with not having a friday outing. I would just like to say that prior yo Xmas party 1 last month it had been 5 months since I'd been out anywhere...

Talkinpeace · 06/12/2013 18:07

Ooh mariarossa not being able to exercise when you are used to it is indeed a PITA - especially as your calorie needs go down at the same time as you go out of tone!
What did you do to yourself and are you on the mend now?

Eatriskier My 'office' do - where I work part time - has been postponed till January which is actually cool as then we get better menu choices!

BigChocFrenzyAteYourReindeer · 06/12/2013 18:27

Tip Yup, I'll post it.
btw: Any competent studies would exclude the seriously ill and underweight who might otherwise skew the statistics.

The most plausible explanation for the differing requirements at different ages are:

  • the older you are, the more likely to have a serious disease in the next few years, hence the need for higher fat reserves.
  • as (non-5:2ers) increase weight as they go into middle age, a young person already overweight is likely to be obese in middle age.

However, to choose a suitable goal BMI /%BF we need to judge our individual body, lifestyle, tastes etc.

My BF of around 21% is theoretically too low for my age, but I wish to return to sub-20%, partly because the fat distribution in my 50s changed. Also, with the intense kind of training I do, I notice even one excess kg.

BigChocFrenzyAteYourReindeer · 06/12/2013 18:31

Well done on managing your first long fast Toffee.
I exoect you'll be quite blasé about 24 hr FDs now.
Smile
Betsy If you get bunged up again, try that remedy I passed on to Cuckoo - it seemed to work for her:

  • 1 tbsp olive oil
  • 1 teasp lemon juice
Best to take on an empty tum, so early morning or a few hrs after eating.
MariaRossa · 06/12/2013 18:49

Thanks Tip am much better now. It was nothing dramatic - just a series of mechanical breakdowns (general decrepitude!) Achilles, knee, hip issues which got so chronic as to make me grind to a halt. I think you have had knee problems, so you may have been there? A lot of painful physio has got me back to 3 exercise classes a week plus daily walking - have never been an exercise junkie, but it does make me feel better. I know I should do more - following the advice on these threads I have at least attempted to Shred a few times, and have looked at C25K (by which I mean have printed out a schedule and downloaded a few podcasts, and even listened to one to see if I could stand it. I'm sure that must count. Preparation is important, isn't it?)

Talkinpeace · 06/12/2013 18:53

You have lurked well MariaRossa Xmas Grin
Yup I have nadgered knees so do swimming, yoga, pilates and a non impact version of LegsBumsTums

its interesting how many more studies are coming out saying that exercise is practically essential.

A dear family friend who is 75 is allergic to exercise, but he eats little
so he's unfit but slim
My D list sleb old school friend will always be heavy, but exercises lots
so she's fat but fit

the killer, killer, killer is fat and unfit : and WILL stop us being able to be as manic as grandparents as Breadandwine

BigChocFrenzyAteYourReindeer · 06/12/2013 19:05

Turkey So sorry you are going through all this stress and soul-searching.
(((Big Gobbler Hugs)))
Flowers
Even if he is a knobhead as a DP, he is at least a caring (if not very helpful) dad

  • unlike MrsF's affliction who needs his smart phone rammed up to where he keeps his brains and where he sun doesn't shine.

However, do NOT start questioning your history, character, judgement, boobs size etc. just because your relationship has ended. This is NOT your fault.
^^

rubbishfamily333 · 06/12/2013 19:09

Evening all I have done a fast/mini fast today, I didn't eat until dinner time, then had beef stew with dumplings (which I cooked and put in the freezer).

Well NSV today Grin my stretchy jeggings which are quite big but a size 12, they have been falling down all day ShockShock It was annoying but made me smile Grin

Also I showed my dd aged 6 this morning and said look my jeans look abit big, she said "wow I've never seen any clothes that were big for you before". She makes me sound like I'm as big as a house ConfusedConfused I'm a size 12 I didn't think it was that big. Grin

MariaRossa · 06/12/2013 19:12

I'd be interested to know how vital for our mental health exercise is as well - I know, no matter how stressed I am, if I can force myself to go to class I am guaranteed to feel better. If nothing else, your brain has to concentrate on where to put your feet/arms/legs etc and has to let some other stuff go for a while. My best "fasting" feelings are always on the walk to work the day after my fast (which is also always the day after a class) so my body feels more harmonious, put together better, somehow, and I feel light and empty but I've just put some delicious toast in my stomach! (I can skip breakfast no problem on fast days, but I love my toast and practically lick the crumbs off the plate on NFDs.)

BigChocFrenzyAteYourReindeer · 06/12/2013 19:13

I'm with tip on how important exercise is for health, e.g. for a good cardiovascular system, avoiding Type 2 diabetes, maintaining muscle, bone & flexibilty in old age.

Avoid future osteoporosis with exercise:

Start now to retain bone strength, to avoid a painfully disabled old age.

Impact exercise E.g. walking, running, jumping, skipping rope, step class, hitting a heavy punch bag.

Lifting: Ideally movements that load the bone along its length, e.g. squats, press-ups, bench press, overhead press etc

Squats are much better than lunges: The weight in a squat is transmitted down along the spine, through the hip, and down along the bones of the leg, whereas in a lunge, it is transmitted across the shinbone and puts pressure on the knee joint.

BetsyJingleBells · 06/12/2013 19:16

Bigchoc I was bearing your remedy in mind but wanted to do it on a day when I'm not at work as not easy to rush off to toilets at short notice! TBH I'm trying out the half-a-bottle-of-red-wine trick that usually does the job…

Another de-lurker! Hello mariarossa :)

DH is on a Christmas do so I've had a lovely me-only dinner of prawns in chilli, garlic, ginger, spring onions and lime juice, quickly pan fried and chucked on a heap of salad.

On that subject, DH has occasional form for being crap but acknowledges it. We've been together a million years - grown up together really. We discuss our parenting regularly and talk to each other. Neither of us is keen on drama - happy to lead a slightly dull but creative life as long as we get good holidays and naice food/wine. He likes to make sure I go out as often as he does.

Although, as mentioned on another thread somewhere, DH works near an amazing cake shop and has never brought me cake. However, I am hard to buy for - he's just called on the way home form xmas do, and I've requested chocolate (as I no longer think to stock up - a victory of sorts?) but said not to f* bother unless it's lindt or green and blacks quality. He was amused Xmas Grin. I may have had 2 glasses of wine. It's not drinking alone as I'm with the children. And it's Friday.

BetsyJingleBells · 06/12/2013 19:18

Stand up straight, that woman, so you can kick him harder in the bollocks

Possibly the best feminist bellow I've ever heard Grin Grin

BetsyJingleBells · 06/12/2013 19:20

I think exercise is extremely important for our mental health. I find it very easy to not bother but when I do I always think how amazing I feel mentally and why don't I do this all the time? I've been thinking for a couple of days now I really need to go out for a cathartic run tomorrow morning. Weather permitting.

Talkinpeace · 06/12/2013 19:24

silly friday night thought

When Miss S / toffee was needing 'one to one' I kept it off thread
I'm trying the same with Mrs F
as actually no matter what the level of stress, none of want our dirty washing in public
and I do not agree with LTB : as there are always two sides to every story - marriage is a compromise and it has to be tested
(says she whose parents divorced when I was 2 and have never been civil since Grin )

sweetiepie1979 · 06/12/2013 19:29

I seem to inadvertently be on a liquid only fast since last night from 9. I think I'll keep going to tomorrow morning should I? Why not I suppose feeling fine

BigChocFrenzyAteYourReindeer · 06/12/2013 19:38

Maria
Exercise improves what scientists call the brain's "executive function," which are basic brain functions like processing speed, response speed, and working memory (the type used to remember names & numbers)

Exercise is as effective as medication for mild (but not severe) depression.

It can even reverse age-related brain shrinkage and deterioration (possibly due to the additional blood capillaries created and improved blood circulation, as well as chemical reactions ?)

More vigorous exercise naturally has more effect than a gentle amble, but even regular brisk working makes a difference:

Can't find the reference, but one study got 60 sedentary adults aged 60 to 80 to start a brisk walking program of 40 minutes a day three times a week. After a year, MRIs showed the hippocampus region of these exercisers had increased by about 2%. The walkers also had better performance on memory tests, compared to their scores at the start of the study—an improvement associated with the larger hippocampus.

BsshBossh · 06/12/2013 19:41

I haven't been able to exercise for an entire month, perhaps more (it would depress me to work out the exact number of weeks) and I feel so so so lethargic as a result. I'm napping more during the day and sleeping fitfully at night. It's awful.

I'm slowly on the mend though and am planning resuming exercise from next week. I can't wait to get my physical and mental clarity back.

TurkeyAtYuleHoHo · 06/12/2013 20:11

BigChoc Cake Xmas Grin - you never fail!!! XXXX
Apart from the odd thing over the years and when he is generally getting on my tits in a way all our (apart from maybe Bssh) partners do, he isn't, so far/in recent times, deserving of any bollock kickings. A slap round the cheeks and massive wake up call maybe but not a kicking. Have to be fair to him there. I am working on my swing though just in case!

I couldn't help myself earlier. Had to ask, as all the comments about MrF, were starting to make me feel like I had really skewed ideas of what a normal relationship is! Because some, not all, of what I hear sounds very familiar Xmas Hmm

Silly really! But I do agree that public airing doesn't help. It is nigh on impossible to explain situations properly. I don't want to be unfair. If anything I probably have tendency to make too many allowances. Either way, it is not conducive to getting the right advice for my particular set up. And this isn't really the place is it. I don't know! Confused.com!

Anyone got that book?...you know, the one with all the answers????

MariaRossa You are SO right. I know that one of the major contributors to my unhappy states over years has been due to lack of exercise. And daylight. Vicious circle that!

Rubbish Awesome NSV!! Got to love the loose clothing feel Xmas Grin And sounds like a typical little dd comment. They always know just what to say!

OP posts:
TurkeyAtYuleHoHo · 06/12/2013 20:24

Whoever was talking about periods (sorry I had pages to catch up on and can't remember name)

Pre dd my cycle was ridiculous. Dating pg was nightmare. 40 odd day cycle most of time, with random period here and there. Really heavy, horrible jobbies too!

Post dd (8yrs) they got regular. Almost monthly and this has been consistent since she was born. Still varied each month, and sometimes 6 weekly, but much better pattern on the whole.

Now, since 5:2, they are pretty much 4 weekly and getting shorter each month. Last one (just finished) was 28 days!!!!!!!!

I think they have reduced by 1-2 days each month (this is 3rd period since starting 5:2)

OP posts:
rubbishfamily333 · 06/12/2013 20:35

Turkey thanks Smile

on the exercise subject, I rarely exercise and I really feel like I need to.

I drive to school and work I know walking would be a good start. I know it sounds like an excuse but I'm always running late. I seem to struggle to get up earlier. Even when I do get up earlier I spend that extra time getting ready. We are always running late to get dd to school, I could drive to school then walk to work from there which would take around 15-20 mins, so there and back would be about 1/2 hour + per day.

I don't really get to go to the gym due to being a single parent, my mum is local and can have dd sometimes but I always feel like I'm rushing around to get things done.

I have recently started hula hooping and I'm trying to build up my minutes per day as the hoop hurts.

I have started to feel like I need some exercise in the evenings, I find that I come home with dd, prepare dinner, clean up then spend my evening on the laptop or on the phone.

BsshBossh · 06/12/2013 20:40

Turkey don't worry DH and I regularly get on each other's nerves (and we're both hot-tempered so there are regular fireworks) but overall he's great.

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