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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

The 5:2 thread number 30 - Did half term bingeing make you feel dirty? Then hop on board thread number 30!

999 replies

BetsyBell · 07/11/2013 16:09

The continuing thread for those of us following the 5:2 fast or other forms of fasting such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012 and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat normally - or approximately your Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE - see explanation below). 4:3 is the same except you fast on 3 days in the week. Alternate-day fasting (ADF) is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. 16:8 is another form where you stick to only eating in an 8 hour window each day, therefore fasting for 16 hours each day.

By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.

You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.

WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

NFD = Non fast day

NSV = Non scale victory

Michael Mosley has a website to accompany his book on the subject. Please go check it out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

Lurkers and new starters: please just jump in and post - you'll find a lot of support here and we’re a friendly bunch.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

All our previous threads can be found by browsing through the fasting section of the site.

Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the tips and links that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

If you've been at this a while and are moving on to maintaining your goal weight, there is a thread here to discuss that.

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

There's a link to the aforementioned Horizon programme here.

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

This link nicely demonstrates that there are many body ‘right’ body shapes and types, because what we are actually aiming for is low body fat for fitness and health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley himself, very informative if you're just starting. (I highly recommend this for an overview)

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Something to consider if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful.

A HUGE THANK YOU to Greeneggsandnicht for putting together all this info and resources into one concise OP text, much appreciated by so many 5:2ers!

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!

OP posts:
Talkinpeace · 08/11/2013 16:15

Cuckoo
I've nothing against Mimi per se : she was co author with MM of the original book and presumably helped to make it a bit more fluffy.

My problem is that since then she's had various articles in the Daily Heil that were clearly copied and pasted not only from the 5:2 forums (which are linked to the book) but from these forums.

As somebody who gives of my professional expertise for free online (on tax, not diets BTW) I object to freeloaders.
Oh and I object to the tax dodging owners of the Daily Heil.

PS - back should still work - Chrome holds about four levels

Itsaboatjack · 08/11/2013 16:34

Goodness what a soggy school run that was!!

We stopped at the bakery on the way home to get something nice for after dinner. The dd's chose what they wanted, but as it was the end of the day choice was fairly limited and there was nothing I particularly fancied - so I didn't get anything. Many a time I would have got something anyway, just to have it. Hopefully those days are gone now.

Since I managed to swerve the sugary treat without too much bother, I shall try and join those of you doing NNN (apart from 3 already arranged social engagements Grin).

postmanpatscat · 08/11/2013 16:35

annie I often do a Saturday fast when DP does his alternate weekends visiting DSD, then feed my own DC but not myself! It's usually when I do my zero fast.

cuckoo I am intolerant to dairy and I itch like mad when I eat it but I do anyway because who wants to give up cheese and chocolate that's what made me think of it! Hope you manage to pin it down.

BetsyBell · 08/11/2013 16:36

Just cracking open the cheese, doesn't really feel like a No Naughty November when I can partake of such stinky delights Grin

Now I hope everyone agrees that it's pretty much weekend wine o'clock?

OP posts:
rubbishfamily333 · 08/11/2013 16:36

Well i was very happy this morning Grin on Monday my weight was 10.10 after eating loads on the weekend (my normal weight was 10.7-8)

This morning after 2 fast days I was 10.5.6 GrinGrinGrinGrinGrin so happy! But then I drank a glass of water and I was 10.6.6 Hmm

Anyway still much happier. The thing is with the tdee if I take away 10% I will only be allowed around 1500 cals per day on those days. And when calorie counting I can eat 1400 cals per day every day and loose weight so it feels unfair that I am only allowed 100 cals more if I do 2 fast days and 1 'eat what you want' days!

I am feeling like cardio will help with weightloss at the moment. I don't want to do a lot of weights (which I prefer) as I feel that it makes me build muscle quickly and muscle weighs more!

I'm going to try to make it to Zumba tonight!

CuckooAtchooUhOh · 08/11/2013 16:41

Tip have no idea what that last sentence means! Grin

Thank you Annie and Tip for reply. I gathered she had somehow involved herself, but as all I have watched/read about 5:2 was the horizon programme, which led me to googling a question, which then landed me on thread 24 on here, I haven't heard of her before.

Don't buy any newspapers on grounds they are no longer reporting the news! Never buy magazines - overpriced, not eco friendly and usually full of adverts and worst of all celebs. I abhor (not used that word recently ever) celeb culture. Just me and t'internet and my 'I'll make my own mind up about that thank you" opinionated self!

Between Horizon & MM, this thread plus basic knowledge/common sense about food, I haven't bothered to look anywhere else. I always find a lot of recipe books, especially diet ones, too much faffing around. I can generally do better myself, and when interested in looking for new ideas, I tend to end up on Allrecipes/blogs etc.

Yes, I got the gist that she was cashing in on everyone else's hard work. I too am not a fan of freeloading, the Dail (spits) Fail, or any celebrity anything for that matter! I keep losing my page (just from being a twat) and every time I have to go through the links to get to thread, I keep getting an eyeful of her and her smarmy mug, in her slim fitting leather jacket! And keep wondering....... "What the hell have you got to do with anything!"

That is why had to ask! Phew! Not even totm anymore Grin

Talkinpeace · 08/11/2013 16:51

cuckoo
in most internet browsers the back button should reliably take you two or three levels and I found out a while ago that its a great way to retrieve posts when the "site is offline" message comes up!

rubbish
Yay : and now you see why we tell people that rapid weight gain after a holiday is often undigested food and drink rather than laid down fat.

duckyfuzz · 08/11/2013 16:52

oh go on then betsy Wine cheers!

rubbishfamily333 · 08/11/2013 17:25

Talkin - oh yes I know it's not actual fat I've lost just water/food but that is enough to keep me motivated for now!

I do feel abit slimmer where my ribs are but bit the big belly/hips area which is always the way! I'm thinking more cardio will help to blast it away!

I'm going to Zumba tonight to fight any calories I might over eat this weekend Wink

MrsFlorrick · 08/11/2013 17:26

Itsa. Yes. I do think you can be too strict and it ruins it. Perhaps my willpower is just pathetic!

To Cookoo and Bigchocfrenzy on the no naughtiest November. Given I fast or stick under goal weight TDEE during the week, my naughty eats happen at the weekend most of the time anyway.

And as for cheese as an alternative. Wouldn't work for me as I can eat my own body weight in cheese. In fact my MN name should be Bigcheesefrenzy! Wink I discovered this whilst low carbing. Between cheese and nuts, it seriously hindered my low carb weighloss. I can eat tons of both.

I have recently experimented with carb cycling along with 5:2 and it works well. Just a day or two of low carb during the week moves things along.

Keeps your metabolism guessing.

I intend to have cheese and wine later. Very naughty as there may be some frenzying. No choc or dinner. Just lovely cheese with Finn Crisp breads.

I've bought Vacherin, Montgomerys cheddar and petit berthaus. Yum. And I have dessert wine (Sauternes.).

Just need to get the DC into bed now!Grin

Apologies I should really keep my cheese fest info to myself.

rubbishfamily333 · 08/11/2013 17:28

I'm thinking about what to have for dinner.

Was thinking bacon and haloumi might be nice together? But might have to have one or the other so I can save calories for my cereal and yogurt after dinner!

Not2bObvious · 08/11/2013 17:36

Wow, another hot thread! It was at 40 when I checked in last, over 100 already?
I have maintained this week, that's a polite way of saying I have lost F* all. Botheration and damn my expectations.
Anyway, it's fine, I look good, I feel good and I'm going out in size 12 skinny jeans tonight. Alls good in the world, the scales opinion does not count. Did my exercise this morning, been eating mindfully all day, going to partay soon, woop woop! Hope everyone's having a great Friday, can't catch up with all the messages, something to read tomorrow, looking forward to it

toffeesponge · 08/11/2013 17:37

DH and DC are currently having fish pie. I did the recipe I saw on daybreak the other day as it looked incredibly easy. It really was and I suspect much lower in calories than the usual pie made with white sauce. Apple and blackberry crumble for pudding but DH and I won't have it as the kids love it and eat the whole thing.

Donkeyok · 08/11/2013 17:38

I wish I was brave enough to do something this radical.

Im 13 stone feeling fat and unfit after a cash crash injury.
1 1/2 years on with 2 stone

I just bought size 18 jeans today and hated them on me.
Everything is tight.

Im going to read up all your references Monday could be the FD
which means I don't have to do anything yet other than research to be
ready and Ive still started?
Id love to be fit and out of pain.

Talkinpeace · 08/11/2013 17:54

Welcome Donkeyok You have arrived in a good place for support and ideas and general positive vibes.

And losing weight will make a LOT of the pain reduce. I can tell if I put even a pound on because my knees hurt more.
In bodypump the other day, doing squats with 10kg on my knees went into "oi, you shifted that weight, why have you picked it up again" mode !

Have a good read of the Tips and hints and the links in Betsey's OP and then dive in.

CuckooAtchooUhOh · 08/11/2013 17:59

Oh ok Tip - not being thick then! Yes I did the back thing, but whatever I had done, computer said NO!

Got bloody headache! Swear it is part of the whole stomach/itch/skin issue. (I WILL get to the bottom of it!) That or 4 hrs sleep last night!

Am tempted to go to bed for quick nap SO that I can eat and drink later! Grin Well that fasting 3 days is loooong gone!

On the cheese subject. I am not allowed to think about it. I might as well just sellotape it to my hips and cut out middle man.

I was never a sweet person, until I bf'ing dd when I started to take the 'have a snack and a drink while feeding' thing too far. But went off it again when stopped bf'ing. Dp and dd the ones with sweet tooth in this house, I have always been a savoury type, until I pretty much gave up drinking back in april. Since then I have been chief chocolate buyer! Funny how the lack of sugar received via wine needed to be replaced by something else, and the extra salt I used to crave when on vino, was no longer needed!

On a fd I hate weighing out cheese and being reminded just how calorific it is! I don't think I could ever eat 'recommended' portion sizes of certain foods! Best not to know sometimes Grin

Enjoy your Cheese Fests people. Betsy you are now 1.5 hours into wine o'clock - have you made that G&T last Wink

Have a good weekend everybody. Go and get stuffed in the nicest possible way! Wine

Thanks for fasters.

Donkeyok · 08/11/2013 18:02

Thanks Talkinpeace
The last couple of years Ive been saying negative things like your older just accept your this size and you wont be able to carry bags etc
but I feel this is my last chance to turn it around.

MrsFlorrick · 08/11/2013 18:08

Donkey! Welcome Smile

You don't have to start with full on fast days etc. I didn't. No way I could. It seemed very radical to me too.

I started doing something called 18:6. This means you fast 18 hours out of 24 and have a 6 hour eating window.

Essentially it means eating dinner reasonably early then nothing else during the evening (you can drink tea and coffee etc) and either skipping or delaying breakfast.

Ie I will have dinner during the week with DC around 5pm and then not eat until 10am next morning.

I lost 5lbs doing that in two weeks.

I then felt comfortable with trying what we here refer to as a "mini fast" ie under 1000 calories. And within a few weeks I could easily manage a full 500 cal fast day.

I still have fast days which end up well over 500 cals. It doesn't matter. I'm still losing weight. Obviously it's slower if you're not strict.

Fwiw. I had gestational diabetes twice and I put on 6 stone. Having never been over weight in my life or on a diet, it was a massive shock. I had no idea how to deal with it either.

I've tried lots of diets; weight watchers- rubbish, Jason vale juice diet- effective but seriously hard core, Dukan diet- hugely effective but impossible to keep up for long, low carb- not very effective for me but very sustainable easy.

5:2. Works so well. It's ultra flexible. You don't need any special food, no special recipes needed, no cutting out whole food groups. You can eat anything. You could even get your 500 cal on a fast day from biscuits if you wished-don't recommend that btw as that's 5 biscuits and it will be a looong day. Grin

Eating clean as in lots of veg and veg soups of fast days is great. Very filling. You don't have to make your own soup. Supermarket stuff is just fine. Tinned soup too.

It's extremely flexible as you can miss a fast day, you can have an extra fast day (4:3) or a mini fast if it suits you.

As for the fitness side of things. Tell us how mobile you are and what you think you can do and we will recommend something. Most on here do some form of exercise but we are all very different. Personally I do Jillian Michaels DVDs and swim.

The Jillian DVDs are fab workouts as they are High Intensity Interval Training with strength. It's taken my resting pulse rate from 89 (oh the shame) to 58 in under 6 months. Obviously weightloss has helped too.

Have a look at the 30 Day Shred on utube.

If that won't work for you, swimming, walking, hoola hooping, yoga, Pilates, cycling??

Welcome. We are a friendly helpful lot here so post away.

Talkinpeace · 08/11/2013 18:09

Donkeyok
You are never too old.
Lady at my gym lost 3 stone so that she looked fab for her 70th birthday.
She stands next to me in BodyPump and yoga. Her knees are not shot so she does BodyCombat as well !

You will look and feel younger when you've done it. And with 5:2 you'll have the mental tools to make it forever.

cuckoo
I am the person who used to treat a 400g pack of cheshire cheese as a "snack" and I've been known to demolish astounding amounts of stilton at one sitting. (((((((Cheeeese)))))))

CuckooAtchooUhOh · 08/11/2013 18:16

Donkeyok Welcome!

Just get started Monday. Yes this does count as starting, we like thinking that way here, BUT no excuses on a continual basis, or it's just denial! Here, we like being losers Wink

I can promise you that if you give this a go, you will not regret it.

In terms of reading everything first, just get the basics and start. The most fantastically brilliant part of this woe is that it doesn't really matter if you have a bad couple of days/week/holiday etc because, providing you make this your long term woe most of the time, you will continue to lose weight, improve your injuries AND get a lot, lot healthier at same time. So just start! If it all goes a bit pear shaped during first few weeks, that's ok! But you will feel such a sense of achievement and get so much motivation from it, you won't be able to stop yourself!

I think this woe pretty much takes care of itself. Little improvements soon grow (quite naturally) into bigger ones and before you know it, you'll be a (skinny) old pro on the dizzy heights of the maintainers thread!

Talking of which!... I was on there earlier looking for B&W and saw a certain persons recent confession Shock I've lost all hope now! Wink

BigChocFrenzy · 08/11/2013 18:52

The good news is my NFD Friday supper did not include any choc or sweet junk Frenzy. The bad news is: I had a tiring day at the office, rain p@ssing down the windows and - NNN does not mention savoury Frenzies.
Blush
The 2 pizzas were small, only 730 cals each and I had lots of butternut squash with them. Then a healthy pud: banana and 4-nut butter on sprouted bread ....... and then I fell in the nut butter jar.
The 250g jar alone is 1625 cals, so supper total was about 3400. Add to a cheese fondue breakfast and broccoli soup lunch for Friday 4500-5000 total
Blush Blush Blush A big "oh BUGGER"

Well Saturday is my 3rd FD which is just as well. Postman, Annie' Mehefin*, are you joining the Saturday penance ?

BigChocFrenzy · 08/11/2013 18:54

PS I should have had chips - only chips - instead. I'm not sure even I can eat 5000 cals of fries during a workday.

BsshBossh · 08/11/2013 18:55

Welcome newcomers!
rubbish great loss.
Cuckoo the choc, hazelnut & Nutella muffins were delicious. I made them as 12 small not 6 big as recipe suggested. Very moist and not too sweet.

BsshBossh · 08/11/2013 18:57

BigChoc you may be Blush but I love reading about your epic blowout meals. I love a WOE that allows them.

Talkinpeace · 08/11/2013 19:01

Bigchoc I admit that if I got a cheese and wine head on I could probably hit several thousand in a day - on a tdee of 1500!
I only allow myself those a couple of times a year