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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

The 5:2 thread number 30 - Did half term bingeing make you feel dirty? Then hop on board thread number 30!

999 replies

BetsyBell · 07/11/2013 16:09

The continuing thread for those of us following the 5:2 fast or other forms of fasting such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012 and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat normally - or approximately your Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE - see explanation below). 4:3 is the same except you fast on 3 days in the week. Alternate-day fasting (ADF) is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. 16:8 is another form where you stick to only eating in an 8 hour window each day, therefore fasting for 16 hours each day.

By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.

You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.

WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

NFD = Non fast day

NSV = Non scale victory

Michael Mosley has a website to accompany his book on the subject. Please go check it out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

Lurkers and new starters: please just jump in and post - you'll find a lot of support here and we’re a friendly bunch.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

All our previous threads can be found by browsing through the fasting section of the site.

Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the tips and links that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

If you've been at this a while and are moving on to maintaining your goal weight, there is a thread here to discuss that.

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

There's a link to the aforementioned Horizon programme here.

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

This link nicely demonstrates that there are many body ‘right’ body shapes and types, because what we are actually aiming for is low body fat for fitness and health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley himself, very informative if you're just starting. (I highly recommend this for an overview)

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Something to consider if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful.

A HUGE THANK YOU to Greeneggsandnicht for putting together all this info and resources into one concise OP text, much appreciated by so many 5:2ers!

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!

OP posts:
postmanpatscat · 16/11/2013 10:45

Well done brambles and velma on your losses and also Not2b on your morning run - great start to the day!

I've finally gone under my pre-holiday weight after 2 weeks and 4 fast days (and 6 gym visits totalling over 50km of running!) so I'm glad that's been dealt with. I know two weeks isn't long really but it just didn't seem right for it to take longer to get off than it did to put on! I had gained 2.5kg, now 300g lower than I was the day we left.

Have a good Saturday everyone Smile

Not2bObvious · 16/11/2013 11:25

Yep about the same Ducky, 11.4.4 this morning. I so want to be 10 something for Christmas too, enough under to start 2014 still as 10 something - aiming high eh?
I have 2 days away with work next week that's going to be tough but coffee & 16:8 will be my friendGrin
Only fluids so far today, dinners for 3 days prepped, ironing done, exercise completed, sitting down at last! Bit of a break til collection of dd1 - lunch in about an hour, hmm nfd post 16 hours fast, what to have?!? Crusty bread with bacon is appealing to me, yum

BigChocFrenzy · 16/11/2013 13:22

Ducky Impressive discipline / planning yesterday and the fizzy run today.

Betsy,Bssh I totally agree: guilt, "sins" etc. has no place in a WOE.

Betsy, good lifestyle victory for you !
However, some of us will never "find it impossible to eat huge amounts" - I'm sure I'll always Frenzy, but not as often or quite as large. Limiting myself to 5 choc donuts is a major step from 8 (and I am really not kidding).

I didn't do a real Friday Frenzy (unless 9 rice puds count ?), just had 4 large meals in 14 hrs which totalled 4600 cals, so amounted to the same thing ! However, I don't feel sorry in the morning and it's only once per week now, not 2-3 times.
Hmm
My weight loss is slow, but steady and my bod definitely looks tighter, so my Deviant WOL works for me and keeps me happy.
Smile
FD today, with fasted lifting and spinning later, then similar fasted training Sunday morning.

ChocPud (are you a distant cousin ?) I hope your mini-FD goes well.
Anyone else FDing ? Anyway, happy weekend to all IFers.

Sophiste · 16/11/2013 14:03

Hi gang - I may be a quiet one, but I do love these warm, funny, thoughtful, generous-spirited threads. Thanks

Good news here. A month or so ago I put the scales away in a sulk (wasn't losing an ounce) but carried on regardless, enjoying FDs and NFDs in their different ways, and dropping a dress size.

So today on a whim I dug out the dusty scales. I am 4kg down on whenever it was in October that I last weighed. Happy days. I think I'll track properly from now on. Maybe...

Actually I don't mind if I carry on as a tortoise rather than a hare - after all it's not a race, and there's no deadline Smile

Anyway, NFD here today. Am planning something yummy and Italian with Wine Wine for supper, maybe with a mini-pud for the grown-ups in front of the Borgen season premiere later on.

Happy weekend everyone.

annielewis · 16/11/2013 14:19

Hi everyone, how's everyone doing? It's 6am here and the kids are still jet lagged so been up for nearly 2 hours already!!!! Not good for trying to fast!

TiP I had my suspicions about these Californian girls, SF is such a foodie city and people eat so often and well here, there is so much delicious food on offer that they had to be restricting somehow!!!!

Anyway, so far have managed to keep intake pretty low, did a mini fast in the end on Thursday and actually managed a full FD yesterday as H was too tired for dinner so we just fed the kids and went to bed, so only had lunch and managed at just over 500.

So today think will eat whatever I like!

cuckoo I agree that this WOL makes you feel more in control generally in other areas too. Good luck with everything that's happening for you. Also, I love the fact that this thread is a good place to unburden other stuff too and not just 5:2 stuff, makes it more real and personal! Now I just need to figure out how to keep up with it!!!!

Also -whoever it was whose children were an embarrassment yesterday, mine decided to do a wee in the middle if the Children's Discovery Museum (thankfully outdoors part) and then came back and announced 'mummy I've just done an enoooooormous wee over there by the rock). All within 10 minutes of meeting up with her American cousins and ocd Auntie for the first time this trip. Oh the shame....... She is 3.5 and been potty trained for ages. Don't know what came over her.... Blush

annielewis · 16/11/2013 14:22

not2beand ducky can I join in too, I was 11.5 the day we left to come on holiday and I also desperately want to be 10 something by Christmas!! It's been a long time since I was 10 anything and it would be a great way to start 2014!!!!

I reckon we can do it, although i may have to resort to exercise to get there.....

Not2bObvious · 16/11/2013 14:29

Wow Sophiste that's impressive. I wish I could put the scales away but I'm terrified I'd lose the plot without a daily check in - although considering the fact I'm not losing nor am I really gaining, maybe it's time to trust myself, until next Friday maybe? Oh gosh can I do it? Or how about 5:2'ing the scales Grin - that would be a vast inprovement for me!
Tuesday & Friday this week, after fd's

Talkinpeace · 16/11/2013 14:31

annielewis
when we were in SF when DD was small we ate here www.franciscanrestaurant.com
and DD smeared grease ALL over those amazing windows.
Luckily the staff were laughing too hard to be cross.
Have you been down to the Monterey Bay Aquarium yet?
We did not go to the discovery museum .... another reason to go back to the West Coast!

Talkinpeace · 16/11/2013 14:36

By the way,
flick through the images of the Private Eye Christmas cards
privateeye.subscribeonline.co.uk/Products/christmas-cards

sweetiepie1979 · 16/11/2013 14:39

Hi apologies if this question is a repeat. I just started 5.2 this week. I've been reading the forum on the 5,2 website and their is a lot of negativity. It seems to be saying that it isn't a matter of eating what you want the other days particularly if your small or you don't take a lot Of exercise. So I am only 5 foot 2 not getting much exercise at moment but I am kept busy with a toddler and 3 week old. I did my tdee it comes out as 1762 I ticked box to say little or no exercise. Should I drop the calories on my fast days now too? I was hoping I wouldn't have to count calories!

Breadandwine · 16/11/2013 14:53

Here's a thread reporting a proposed new study by Dr Mark Mattson (he of the Horizon programme) into the effects of low-carb 2 consecutive day fasting.

Promises to be very interesting and I'm adding it to the Tips and Links thread.

eatriskier · 16/11/2013 15:11

Sweetie unfortunately they are right. On non fast days you should eat normally but normally doesn't necessarily mean what you like or how you normally eat. It means sensibly. I saw some good advice though that said

  • if for health benefits only don't count
  • if for weight loss and that is happening without counting then dont
  • if for weigh loss and you aren't losing or are gaining you're going to want to look at what/how much you eat and couple of weeks counting will give you some idea of portioning

Or follow the rules of eat:

  • what you want
  • when you want
  • how much you want
Pick only 2.
mummyof2girlsx · 16/11/2013 16:55

Hi everyone! I haven't posted for a while but still enjoying reading the thread and love hearing of all your fab losses/NSV's!

I am still maintaining, I still fast twice a week and enjoy being relaxed at the weekends without any guilt Grin

Enjoy your weekends and thanks for all your brilliant posts which keep me going, especially on my FD's Thanks

BiscuitsAreMyDownfall · 16/11/2013 16:56

Right so I really need to be more careful with my food.

I have failed another week dramatically. Sad

I have re-worked out my TDEE to be 1900 cals. Thats light exercise at a little lower than my goal weight. I run parkrun every Saturday morning, plus I walk the dog a mile everyday and I am running more often too even if its just on a Sunday. That's light exercise isn't it?

So if I follow the rules of eat as mentioned by eatriskier by eating what I want and how much, but only at certain times that should help with my TDEE should it? on NFDs I will stick to 16:8 too so only eating between 12:30 and 20:30 (24hr clock) Is that enough?

On a more positive note, that half marathon I mentioned last weekend made the announcements that registrations were open so I have paid £32 to run it. Its really going to happen.

Still jobless though, but have had one interview and applied for loads more. With my recent work experience and my course in the same area then hopefully it shouldn't be too long.

Talkinpeace · 16/11/2013 17:15

The really important thing to bear in mind with 5:2 is that it was not designed as a weight loss programme.
The fact that Michael Mosely went from fairly slim to slim was linked to the fact that he was already used to eating the right amount for his body.

Now that 5:2 is all over the media like a rash, there are more and more people coming to it who have not eaten the right amount for their bodies for many many years.

The first thing these people need to learn is what their bodies need. "Normal" for them has not been the right amount.
Only once non fast days are within TDEE will those people successfully reach and stay at a healthy weight.

BiscuitsAreMyDownfall · 16/11/2013 17:21

Sorry I didn't make it clear in my last post that I will still have 2 FD's, but my 5 NFDs will be within the 1900 calories and will stick to a 16:8 during those 5 NFDs

ChocolatePudding · 16/11/2013 18:57

Feeling purged. Broke a 20 hour fast with venison sausages in red wine sauce and a mound of mash. Yum. Thanks Delia.

ChocolatePudding · 16/11/2013 18:59

Does anyone know if excess sugar is a depressant? I felt bl**dy awful today after 2 days of excess choc and biscuits. It wasn't until this afternoon after a 16 hours of fasting and a bit of footie with the kids that I felt even close to being a normal human being again. It's not a guilt thing about what i have binged on, I just tend to feel rubbish in myself.

I just hope I can keep a lid on the biscuits for the rest of the weekend. I should really be joining the NNN group (or was it renamed?). I'm def an all or nothing kind of person.

rubbishfamily333 · 16/11/2013 19:09

Not2b - I weigh everyday but I am thinking about weighing Monday morning to see how much I have put on over the weekend. Then Friday morning to see how much I have lost again Grin

BetsyBell · 16/11/2013 19:16

chocolateP Yes, I definitely think sugar is a depressant - it's effect is far more noticeable when you have time off it (eg, fast days). Come and join the NNNs - Mon to Thurs! Chocfrenzy thought up a suitable re-name but I've forgotten already…

I'm feeling a whole lot better generally and craving sugar far less. It works best if you quit booze too (Mon-Thu) as that's just sugar in its worst form!

OP posts:
Emmabryant123 · 16/11/2013 19:28

Looking forward to a licqidy fast in mindset,
Kids at grandparents.
Had a cornea, depardos, double jd and come and kopperbarg and peroni.
Oops. Drunk age.

CuckooAtchooUhOh · 16/11/2013 19:30

Biscuits- when you say failed - how exactly? I don't do all the tdee so I'm not your gal for help there. However, what I would suggest is linked to Tip's point. When eating on nfd or fd, why don't you look at how you're eating. All sorts of tricks to try.
Drink glass water before starting anything, including (whispers) snacks.
Where appro use smaller plates/dishes.
Really important - chew everything loads! And slowly!
Stay mentally connected to your belly as food going in and try to notice when it says - ok, we're comfy now. Then stop!

I say this as somebody who last night was eating an Indian takeaway and got to stage where I was taking deep breaths to try to make room for more!!! Why??? Because it was delicious. But I caught myself and said wtf? and stopped.

I am a slow eater anyway and have always chewed loads but even I ignore the signs sometimes. The real key to weight loss/staying slim, is not to deprive yourself, but simply not to overeat in the first place. As Tip was saying - it is about recognising what is enough!

When you can, you will be able to have whatever you want, whenever you want, and your body, if you learn to recognise the signs, will tell you when to stop!! No cal counting, no tdee. Nature has given you the tools, but you now need to learn how to use them properly. Same for all overeaters.

Thanks for update on job. And well done and good luck with the run!

Choc pud - Yes, sugar crash will make you feel pants. Good news is after few days you will start to feel normal. One of reasons for NNN was because of the silly grip sugar has on us. It was inspired by the desire to stop craving a product our bodies don't even need in the form of junk - cakes, biscuits, sweets, choc, and general rubbishy stuff.
We have all added our own tweaks. As with most things, it is flexible - you choose your own limits. Join us. Xmas is a goal post, to see what we can achieve. Betsy, BigChoc, myself and a few others I think, have given ourselves the challenge.

Mine is:
no booze til Xmas.
No junk of any kind mon - thurs (easy as I'm doing 4:3 during those days anyway)
It's a bit of fun, only thing to lose - is the lard!!

(and BigChoc sanity as she is in proper deprivation mode compared to normal!)

Am posting before reading back so apologies if makes no sense whatever but Strictly awaits!!

CuckooAtchooUhOh · 16/11/2013 19:37

REVERSE HUNGER!

That is what you all (points slightly slimmer finger from left to right at thread and then at self) need to learn to recognise!

You are the manual! Learn to read it!!

CuckooAtchooUhOh · 16/11/2013 19:42

HIFUCK

Was what it was. Have no idea what stood for will have to scroll back. Think it might have been additional to NNN though Betsy, continuing NNN through to Xmas. Shock Can you feel that whip crack!

SWATH is another - but it's just her so far on that. She is hardcore.

BsshBossh · 16/11/2013 19:54

Biscuits and all other overeaters (though perhaps not BigChoc who seems to have a very elastic tummy Grin) you need to use 5:2 to learn to get back in touch with feelings of fullness - not even fullness but satisfaction. You know what physical hunger feels like, now you need to focus on when your stomach is satisfied then learn to stop. We need to give our digestions a break on NFDs too. Cuckoo I love your 19:30 post.