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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

The 5:2 thread number 30 - Did half term bingeing make you feel dirty? Then hop on board thread number 30!

999 replies

BetsyBell · 07/11/2013 16:09

The continuing thread for those of us following the 5:2 fast or other forms of fasting such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012 and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat normally - or approximately your Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE - see explanation below). 4:3 is the same except you fast on 3 days in the week. Alternate-day fasting (ADF) is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. 16:8 is another form where you stick to only eating in an 8 hour window each day, therefore fasting for 16 hours each day.

By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.

You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.

WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

NFD = Non fast day

NSV = Non scale victory

Michael Mosley has a website to accompany his book on the subject. Please go check it out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

Lurkers and new starters: please just jump in and post - you'll find a lot of support here and we’re a friendly bunch.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

All our previous threads can be found by browsing through the fasting section of the site.

Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the tips and links that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

If you've been at this a while and are moving on to maintaining your goal weight, there is a thread here to discuss that.

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

There's a link to the aforementioned Horizon programme here.

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

This link nicely demonstrates that there are many body ‘right’ body shapes and types, because what we are actually aiming for is low body fat for fitness and health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley himself, very informative if you're just starting. (I highly recommend this for an overview)

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Something to consider if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful.

A HUGE THANK YOU to Greeneggsandnicht for putting together all this info and resources into one concise OP text, much appreciated by so many 5:2ers!

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!

OP posts:
BsshBossh · 13/11/2013 09:25

And MrsF if you can't face a run, a lovely long walk by yourself is also wonderful. Both DH and I give each other that time on weekends - just an hour or so is needed and we both feel re-charged. And DH and DD get lovely one-to-one time together.

Coveredinweetabix · 13/11/2013 09:41

moving we're in a similar position re new area, no family & few friends and those friends have young DC themselves so can't do pick up if I get stuck in traffic or look after ill DC. What helps us is a couple of lovely teenagers on our cul de sac who come in & lend a hand if needed so one will come & sit with DS tonight when I go and collect DD and then finding some people on childcare.co.uk who are often former nannies or nursery workers but now have other jobs/commitments so just offer babysitting but can do daytime babysitting on occasion.

MrsFlorrick · 13/11/2013 09:45

I'm sorry about my late night whiny posting.
DS carried on whining and shouting for me every 5 minutes until 3:45am. Argh. By which time he had woke DD and DH several times.
I did feel slightly sorry for DH when he crawled out of bed at 4am to catch his flight! It will evaporate when he phones me later from his top end 5star abode having had a Michelin starred restaurant meal. Grrr.

dotty. Yes murderous!! Grin. I often feel like that.

moving. Yep. I feel your pain! It's hard isn't it n

cuckoo. Grin at nicer nursing home!! That's made me laugh.

bigchocfrenzy. I do feel he is being crap. I appreciate what he does do but he uses work as an excuse and he harps on about his work providing for us all. Yes it does but it's also his career which he would be doing whether he had DC or were married.

He isn't stopping me working but he puts really difficult obstacles in my way. Like he won't increase DSs pre school hours until I have secured a job which will cover school fees and out of hours care for both DC.

Problem with that is tha school fees work out about £20k pa for both DC. School starts at 9am and finishes just after 3pm. I have to drive DC 4 miles to school then go home park car walk to station and earliest I could be in central
London for work is 10:30am. And to pick up DC I would have to leave by 2pm at the latest.

So that 3.5 hours to work in.
My old job isn't a part time option at all. I used to work between 60 to 80 hours per week.

There is virtually no part time within my old industry. A few firms trialled it but have all but given up now.

I can see why part time doesn't work well.

I have already phoned old bosses colleagues and contacts. And I could get a full time 60 hours per week job back tomorrow. But not a part time one.

I am too old and experienced for a watered down junior role.
Besides they would prefer to employ someone young for much less money who could give them any hours they demand. As opposed to someone who has tomdonthe school run.

I only know two old industry contacts who went back to work after DC. One lost her job after 2 months as she couldn't do the hours required despite a live in nanny.
The other one has just lost hers. Her firm trialled zero hours contracts but have just realised that their zero hour employees are not covered by their professional indemnity insurance so that's the end of that.

I can't set up and do my own consultancy. I need professional indemnity insurance. I have had quotes and then start well into six figures. The work I used to do involved very high value assets (literally hundreds of millions of £).

So I would need to retrain. I think. I'm not sure.

I'm sorry to be whining. I'm just a bit lost. I gave up far too much without realising it.

MrsFlorrick · 13/11/2013 10:02

And whilst its not great that others are in my position, I am glad to have found you on here as its making me feel less alone.

As for retraining. I have lots of options as it goes which is nice and all of them would lead to work which can be done part time. So that's a hopeful avenue.

I suppose that after a degree. A masters and several professional qualifications, I thought my student days were over.

I am off to try Bigchocfrenzys calculators. Flowers

Coveredinweetabix · 13/11/2013 10:57

I'm not just heading for a FD fail but a sticking to my TDEE fail. I'm not sure how much of it is tiredness, how much of it is annoyance with DP, how much drudgery I've done recently & missing work today & how much of it is to do with TOTM.
I'm sure Wagon Wheels don't taste as good as they used to. That might not stop me doing taste checks on the rest of the packet tho!

CuckooAtchooUhOh · 13/11/2013 10:58

I think the bottom line here is ultimately attitude. Namely dh/dp's attitudes.

Whatever ever else is going on, whether we want to retrain/work/sah, it is their attitudes that seem to be the common theme. A little would go a long way!!

It is the fact that when we speak up about it ie drop major f%#ing hints, or ask nicely for some help to alleviate the crapness now and then, they just don't get it^, or even bother to really try!

And the bit that really gets my goat about the long working hours, is when you know full bloody well that whether you were sah or out at work, they would STILL be doing the same, because they are doing it for themselves. But they get to take advantage of fact that they are main/only breadwinner, by playing the 'I work my arse off' card!!

As if we don't! Where are my wages? When do my hours start and finish? Sick pay? Holiday? God forbid I should be tired or fed up when I've got it so easy!!

And I speak as a mum who always loved staying at home. I was in a position where interrupting career wasn't an issue. I have always wanted to be full time sah (money permitting), I'm very 'at home' with that role, and would not swap the time with my daughter or time it has allowed me to do more things for/with her, for the world!

Doesn't mean I don't get tired. Doesn't mean I don't still want time for myself. Doesn't mean I don't want the odd bit of recognition for all the unpaid work I have done! Doesn't mean I haven't suffered at times for it!

I really, REALLY resent the fact that even in this day and age, sahm are not given the credit they deserve! I know it is role dependent, but going out to work can be a complete doddle compared to the sheer hell of raising baby/toddler/pre school. It is soooo draining, and thankless and it is 24/7. Not to mention how much it rots your brain!

Going out to work is hard work. But I am just fed up with the lack of respect for those that work bloody hard at home too!

Men/Wives! Sort your shit out and make your oh a cup of tea, run them a bath, cook dinner, give them a bit of time off, ask them about their day and be interested, show a bit of genuine empathy! And ffs get up in the night now and then because that what's started this whole thing off!!!!!!!!!!! Grin

(Not saying they're total arseholes all the time. Obviously they have their good bits. Dp is very loving, involved father. Just wish he could've been a better partner sometimes!)

CuckooAtchooUhOh · 13/11/2013 11:02

On another note......

Fd here. Loads of coffee being consumed. Am continuing house destruction improvements - and after reading all the dh/dp posts I am revved up and in top calorie burning mode doing my fave type of housework ... CLEAN ANGRY!! Gets loads done Grin

BsshBossh · 13/11/2013 11:26

NSV this morning: I bought a size 8 Dorothy Perkins mini skirt today. Chuffed is an understatement. Size 18/20 to size 8/10. Loving it!

BsshBossh · 13/11/2013 11:35

MrsF we're fasting friends on this thread so whine away :) If it's any consolation, soon both your DC will be in full time primary school and you'll finally get the headspace to think through your options. Not long now...

WilsonFrickett · 13/11/2013 11:38

MrsF sorry to hear about your hard time. Do you have to go back doing what you did before though? I freelance using probably one-tenth of my skills/competencies, but it's lucrative, flexible and I wfh which means every minute is productive when not on MN. When you take travel, clothes, lunches, office collections (!) out of the equation then you suddenly don't need to earn as much as you did before to make a significant difference.

I earn about 1/3 of my former ft wage (before tax) but I feel pretty well off, iyswim. And no childcare costs as I'm here to do all the pick-ups etc. The other thing is I know if anything went wrong with DH and I, I could scale it up to a much larger business, very quickly.

toffeesponge · 13/11/2013 11:57

MrsF - FlowersCakeBrewWine.

Maybe it is time to spell it out to your DH exactly what you have given up and put himself in your shoes - no career, mopping up sick, broken nights, etc etc. How dare he say you can't increase your child's hours without a job. How exactly does it expect you to get a job as things are now?

I didn't have a career to give up when I had our children as I only worked as a nanny but sometimes I feel resentful that most of the child related stuff is down to me. However DH acknowledges he couldn't do his job if I wasn't at home and I couldn't be here without him earning. We are a team. You don't appear to be a team.

I weighed myself this morning. Big mistake. Supposed to be FD but I can't face it. DD still poorly. I am exhausted. Have to take her back as not enough blood to retest for GF and it is currently inconclusive. Have opted to rest her again today and take her tomorrow if no better as the treatment is still the same but if we know what we are dealing with it would be helpful.

Moving2fast · 13/11/2013 12:28

A fast day fail for me as well.....tiredness and hunger do not go well together! But rather than use it as an excuse to binge I am still going to count the calories and make sure I don't go over my TDEE.

I am determined to lose weight this week despite having a baby who wakes at 4am everyday and a 3 year old who can drive me mad!

MrsFlorrick · 13/11/2013 12:47

Hi everyone. And Flowers You've all been so kind.

I would happily do something else. There are options which require retraining but my degrees offer some skills offset against.

I am sort of hoping to find something which I can throw myself into without the need for retraining and which doesn't require complex child are arrangements

Sorry this isn't the job forum but the 5:2 thread!!

So back to matter in hand. So a successful FD yesterday so today is a NFD. Thankfully! Mainlining coffee. Made pancakes for DC for lunch and had some myself.

Not bad so far but I suspect the calorie count will go up significantly if I am to survive the rest of today.

Takingnoprisoners · 13/11/2013 12:50

It's my second fast day and feeling more positive about it, think I can do it and so want to get rid of some of this excess fat!! I weigh 15 stone and had enough of feeling tired all the time so here goes :)

PoshPaula · 13/11/2013 12:57

Anyone else fasting today? I am on my second of the week. So far, one tea, one coffee, one instant skinny mocha, one slimma-soup.

Am at work and feeling rather irritable.

Frenchfemme · 13/11/2013 13:03

Thanks for the welcome all - very much appreciated. However, I have to confess a fail at my first FD attempt yesterday. I missed an exercise class to collect someone from the airport, the ILS system at said airport was not working so flight was diverted to another airport a 3-hr (at least) coach journey away. By the time the coach finally arrived, it was getting late, friend had been away for 2 weeks and had little food in etc - long story short she insisted on treating me to dinner out on the way home (it would have been rude to refuse ...). So cassoulet and red wine was consumed. Looks like I will be fasting Thursday and Saturday this week now.

Sorry MrsF, its not raining in this part of France! Sorry you're having such a tough time.

CuckooAtchooUhOh · 13/11/2013 13:13

PoshP - I am fasting. Just eaten lunch (which is unusual for me) of turkey and now drinking cup of bouillon. But struggling!

Got one of those booze-less hangovers today and it is freezing!

Really interested in the electric throw over! Am having a housework day as it's fd but keep eyeing up the sofa and laptop for some studying/work. Under lots of blankets!!

Is everyone out there on fd struggling today????

All things considered I dub thee...

Wanky Whiney Wednesday

CuckooAtchooUhOh · 13/11/2013 13:23

Anyone tried BigChocs calculator?? The first one on page specifically! I am surprised at how many cals I am allowed!

Why aren't I SKINNY! I'm sure I've been really good compared to allowance. Maybe it is time I try the old mfp!? Can't believe I'm eating anywhere near the tdee on that calculator on a regular basis. Weight should've fallen off by now surely!!

WHERE'S BIG CHOC?? I DEMAND ANSWERS!!!!

Dotty342kids · 13/11/2013 14:03

Ah, you can't beat a good bit of ranting Grin

Anyway, NFD for me, which is heading in a slightly over indulgent manner.
Actually, weirdly, I've definitely been over eating on my NFD's for a couple of weeks but don't seem to be putting any weight on, which is lovely.. I can only assume that my FDs are keeping me in check
I want to lose another 3-5lbs but my body has definitely settled at this weight (10st 5lbs) after starting 5:2 back in Feb at 11st 8lbs. Only MFPing is going to get me there I feel!

Talkinpeace · 13/11/2013 14:06

Hi all

MrsFlorrick
there is a thread about self employed people here that might give you some lateral thought ideas
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/1907878-to-ask-what-you-do-if-you-are-self-employed-work-at-home
BUT
If your DH is in PLc land, sadly with those rewards come a level of ownership by the company that those outside that sphere really do not 'get'
On the other hand, once your kids are at school (which will come around sooner than you think) you start getting time to think

And to all those with pre school children
Enjoy the time you have with them the little buggers darlings grow up so fast into hulking teens who come home from gigs at midnight Hmm.
AND
by then you'll be lean and mean enough to the the really cool mummy when you go to school events with them.

BigChocFrenzy · 13/11/2013 14:12

Cuckoo Did a hungover avian screech my name ?

Calculator:
My higher TDEE agrees with what I actually eat and explains why Frenzies don't do as much damage as expected.
It seems body fat and activity of all types are key, so the simpler calculators don't work for some of us.

Ever-open beak:
It's amazing how all those B&J tubs rack up calories ^^. Also, when you are eating them, it counts as "resting" not even "light exercise".
Plus booze is notorious for high cals and making you forget what you have guzzled ^

eatriskier · 13/11/2013 14:39

I tried the calculator. Seems to come out matching what my fitbit says, so that's good (especially as I know the fitbit works well for me).

I'm in the middle of that Got thin, got fat again program. Its making me think - yes 5:2 really does re-educate you. People are talking about hitting the chocolate bars regularly and today despite being tired and stressed, I just couldn't be bothered with a chocolate bar. I have reese's cups in my cupboard, still not interested. Am thinking I'll spend my calories on a bowl of B&Js after dinner. This is a massive LSV.

BigChocFrenzy · 13/11/2013 15:36

Bssh Great NSV 18/20 to size 8/10. This WOL keeps on giving !
Flowers
Moving, Posh, Taking You are most of the way through this FD. Just keep yourself busy, fingers away from bix / gob for another few hours. Ladies, you can do this ! ^^

Toffee, French Maybe the best feature of this WOL is that you can cope with sudden change of plans. Enjoy an unplanned NFD as an extra break and just do the next scheduled one.

Breadandwine · 13/11/2013 15:46

I'd like to second what PPC said, Hugs and Flowers and Cake, if allowed, to all those dealing with poorly children, crap jobs, absent fathers and anything else that is stressing you out!

We men don't know the half of it! And half of us don't want to know!

I'm trying to remember what I was like when our two were little. I'd like to think I wasn't too bad. I remember a 9-month or so phase our son went through when we just couldn't get him to go to sleep at night. I would go to bed straight after Nationwide (about 6.30?) - then my wife would wake me around midnight and I would take over until the early hours.

And, since I came in after teaching all morning (well, 10.00 'til 11.30), I've hung out the washing, put another load on and put those out as well, cleaned the hob (well, I spilled something on it last night! :() and swept the kitchen floor. All this while my wife is out gallivanting at the hairdressers. [polishes halo]

On the default side I am the untidiest bugger on the planet - or so I'm reliably (and often) informed! Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 13/11/2013 15:54

BreadandWine Good for you. Maybe you could be a role model and give lessons on grown-up male behaviour to MrF.

Cuckoo Maybe interesting for you ? Mix 3 or 4 nut butters together and store in big jar:

  • pnut
  • almond
  • cashew
  • hazelnut
The last 3 are available at some health food shops, or a clever cook like you can make them directly from the nuts (I'm too lazy busy hunting donuts & ice cream for weekend Frenzy moderate orgy)

Warning: Keep beak out of jar, totally addictive ! Use 1-2 tablespoons and loads of will-power per meal.