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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

The 5:2 thread number 30 - Did half term bingeing make you feel dirty? Then hop on board thread number 30!

999 replies

BetsyBell · 07/11/2013 16:09

The continuing thread for those of us following the 5:2 fast or other forms of fasting such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012 and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat normally - or approximately your Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE - see explanation below). 4:3 is the same except you fast on 3 days in the week. Alternate-day fasting (ADF) is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. 16:8 is another form where you stick to only eating in an 8 hour window each day, therefore fasting for 16 hours each day.

By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.

You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.

WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

NFD = Non fast day

NSV = Non scale victory

Michael Mosley has a website to accompany his book on the subject. Please go check it out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

Lurkers and new starters: please just jump in and post - you'll find a lot of support here and we’re a friendly bunch.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

All our previous threads can be found by browsing through the fasting section of the site.

Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the tips and links that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

If you've been at this a while and are moving on to maintaining your goal weight, there is a thread here to discuss that.

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

There's a link to the aforementioned Horizon programme here.

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

This link nicely demonstrates that there are many body ‘right’ body shapes and types, because what we are actually aiming for is low body fat for fitness and health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley himself, very informative if you're just starting. (I highly recommend this for an overview)

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Something to consider if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful.

A HUGE THANK YOU to Greeneggsandnicht for putting together all this info and resources into one concise OP text, much appreciated by so many 5:2ers!

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!

OP posts:
BetsyBell · 12/11/2013 22:12

Weeellll bigchoc you've made me realise that sugar porn is clearly not my thing anymore Shock. There is a family birthday so there will be some cake and pudding but no frenzies here.

Freshly baked bread and a new pack of lurpak… now that's a whole different story Grin [drool]

OP posts:
wrigglebum · 12/11/2013 22:22

Oh MrsF, hope you are ok. My dad was away with work when my sister and I had mumps- poor mum! Piriton and Virusoothe are good for chicken pox, plus seek out friends whose children have had it so you can get out for a play once dd is feeling better but still contagious.

MrsFlorrick · 12/11/2013 22:24

Bssh No. Nearest family are DHs octogenarian parents in Glasgow. I'm one of those forrin folk so no one from my side in the country.

Bigchocfrenzy 6'5" muscular men eh Smile.

And two hour workouts! You're lean and mean.

Once upon a time I would have shunned working out but all this HIIT I have been doing with my Jillian Michaels DVDs has given me a taste for it.
Once both DC are at school in a couple of years time then i will up my game.

eatriskier. Yikes on the poo front. I hope you're ok now. Enjoy your wine!

Despite it all I did a full FD today!! I've been to Waittose this evening to stock up as I cannot take infectious DC out and once DH leaves tomorrow I am stuck in the house until Saturday morning.

Oh and I saw these new soup things in Waitrose. They are spicy oriental style ones and a whole pot is 138 cals so ideal for FD lunch (ie you could have one and still have dinner). I have purchased and will try one and report back.

xCupidStuntx · 12/11/2013 22:30

Thanks as always bssh Thanks I'll just try to keep cals a little on the low side tomorrow so I can indulge at the weekend but I won't fast, it's weird that I trust myself to fast more than I do to keep calories reasonably low!!

Haha south I was just thinking that today, I'm usually forking out a fortune for all the new weight loss gimmicks but this time it's freeee free free and I'll actually be saving money Grin

God I hope so much that I have good losses to keep me motivated because I love everything about this way of eating! What's more, I actually have faith in myself to stick to it long term which is definitely new!!

CuckooAtchooUhOh · 12/11/2013 22:42

I'm thinking gooey. Gooey is my thing this week. But I can't seem to decide what I want! Think my taste buds have got fussier. Now they say, if you're gonna do it - make it worth it!
Which is good philosophy to have I suppose as it usually means eating less; but annoying when you've been so good and suddenly you can, and want to be, really bad!

BigChox Oooh! 6'5" gym buddy - who's a lechy lucky girl then! No wonder you're there so often! It all becomes clear now........

CuckooAtchooUhOh · 12/11/2013 23:16

.... and ha ha ha! On the eye of the tiger! That has been my theme tune this week! I've been doing various diy and whenever I'm doing anything remotely engaging muscles, I start to envisage self in home style Rocky training. Cue the music! (There was a scene with him stirring coffee right?)

MrsF 'Bad timing' ' Unfortunate' as he legs it out of house! Yeah right! Big shit! Poor you Thanks
Sympathies with your sick house! Lots of poorlys out there at mo.

MrsFlorrick · 12/11/2013 23:42

Cuckoo. Yep. So unfortunate. Sigh. H is snoring next to me and I am still a bit pissed off. I know and appreciate that he works which provides for us all (I chucked my career in to have the DC) but he is just never here when needed.

Every thing else is more important.

Another thing which pisses me off is that he never ever takes time off/holiday from work for me as in to give me a day off whilst he looks after DC. He only takes time off when we all go on hols (which means I do a lot of child stuff as its his "holiday") and when his parents visit.
When his parents visit I spend the entire time cooking and cleaning up after them. I love PILs so I don't blame them.

I am just annoyed that I never feature highly enough to warrant him using a day or twos annual leave on.
In fact it makes me angry.

I hope it's pissing with rain in France and all the people he has meetings with are wankers Angry

BsshBossh · 12/11/2013 23:43

Southeast, Cupid our food bills have gone down loads since starting 5:2. My MIL and DM always comment how our cupboards are bare of snacks - that's where most of our savings have been made. I was always popping in and out of the local shops for grazing food, spending £20 a pop - a thing of the past nowadays.

BsshBossh · 12/11/2013 23:46

MrsF I am Angry Angry Angry on your behalf. He's a parent (and a husband) too - he should step in and up.

CuckooAtchooUhOh · 13/11/2013 00:22

Sadly MrsF - you have just described my life! I can't even begin to start on this topic because of how frustrating and unfair it all is. Some men (note I said some) are right pillocks! I know my dp has ended up just like his dad. And his mother did everything for them (all men household). So not only did I get him fully un house trained. But he is just morphing into his father. Old fashioned - men have their (important) roles of work/sports/socialising/feet up. Women have it easy at home all day, after all it's only looking after kids (not real work), bit of cleaning, cooking how hard can it be??...

Just had to delete loads as I started to go off on one! Too late, and too long!

Kick him in the bollocks and pretend you just rolled over Hmm

I feel for you! So frustrating when feels like your hands are tied too! F' him and just focus your strength on getting through chickenpox plague for next few days. And console yourself with fact that your children will remember which parent ran themselves ragged for them, so you will get the nicer nursing home! Thanks

MrsFlorrick · 13/11/2013 00:25

Bssh. He always really wanted DC. I thought he would be more hands on.

Obviously I understand that he has a demanding job (MD of a plc) and its a career he has worked hard on. And ultimately it pays for a very comfortable lifestyle and a beautiful home for me and the DC. B

I'm not stupid and I used to work in the same industry not quite at that level but still at board level so I know the commitment involved. And I understand that yes he has to travel and he doesn't see the DC during the week or help during the week.

I just wish that outside the working week, a little more thought would be given to me.

I am especially miffed as after a lot of research I've just concluded that while the DC are at least at primary school, I will not be able to resume my career. And once they are older it would still involve a live-in nanny.
I chucked my career in and I sort of thought I could step back into it once the DC started school. But it doesn't look possible.
I do miss working. I miss being master of my own destiny (sort of anyway). I miss the complexity of my job and how I used to really deliver on difficult issues. I guess job satisfaction.
I also miss the money. A lot! It's crap not earning. Much more crap than I ever imagined. I mostly try not to think about it as its too depressing and makes me cry.
I also miss the freedom of being able to skip out of my front door without having to take half the house with me and 15 changes of clothes and nappies and crap.

I thought about retraining. But I already have a degree and a masters degree and professional qualifications and at the age of 40 I really don't feel like doing another degree course.

I knew it would cost to have DC and I knew I would give up a lot. I just didn't think it would be everything.

Moving2fast · 13/11/2013 06:00

That's interesting MrsF as I am currently on maternity leave and deciding whether or not to go back to work. My husband thinks I shouldn't as I would just be working to pay for childcare fees but I am scared I am giving up too much and will start to resent it.

On another note, my first fast of the week and been up with the baby since 4.30am. Need to find a way to get through today, especially as I don't like hot drinks. Also have a 3 year old to entertain so its always very tempting to dive into the biscuit tin on days like this.

wrigglebum · 13/11/2013 06:51

Moving- what about fizzy water? I drink a lot of that on FDs (plus lots of herbal teas). Or iced water with slices of cucumber or lemon for flavour?

(((((((MrsF)))))). I am a sahm too and it's crap sometimes. I love being with my boys (mostly!) but I hate the lack of recognition. DH is getting a bit better but he still talks about his 'holidays' and doesn't seem to think I need them. One thing where he is very fair though is money, he's always very clear it's our money. I've been buying a lot of new clothes recently and there are no comments from him.

I can see it would be hard to go back to your old role MrsF but is there any way to make a bit of a sideways or backwards step so doing something part time, or some consulting? It's got to be worth sounding out a few ex colleagues to see what opportunities there are.

BigChocFrenzy · 13/11/2013 07:05

Morning, folks !

This is the best TDEE calculator I have seen so far, because it is tailored for the individual lifestyle and physique:
www.exrx.net/Calculators/CalRequire.html

Clearly, people of same height, weight & age can have very different TDEEs

  • You specify the exact distribution of activity levels during a typical 24 hrs.
  • You can specify either weight or body fat, the latter being much more useful if known, because it considerably affects the resulting TDEE.
  • simplest BF calculator is the US navy one I gave earlier:
www.healthstatus.com/calculate/body-fat-calculator-navy
HellesBellesThinksSometimes · 13/11/2013 07:16

Oh MrsF get yourself and dh a pamper day and night at a hotel booked and drop the kids off at pil's. Sounds like you need some couple time to look forward to. Just a suggestion: as ghastly as it is, next time you go on holiday, book somewhere that has children's acticities so that you get some time to yourselves.

Bssh - I don't know. I weigh in once a month. Fat feels flabbier (trying to see that as a good thing). Had the rod removed last week so that may result in weight loss too. It was more to check the likelihood of my fear that I would lose weight then just pile it back on because of longterm eating habits.

Junebugjr · 13/11/2013 07:34

Hi MrsFlorrick - mine are 5 and 2, so I'm in the relentless stage atm too. My DH is also in a job which requires him to travel and work long hours.

Can you put the younger one in crèche twice a week, so you get a break. I work 3 days a week, I don't have to really as our finances would be fine with DH, but I need to for the break! Is PT not an option with your past career?
Does your DH get more hands on during the weekend?
Not many people can be surrounded by young nagging children day after day, without having some sort of break. ((Hugs))
On the plus side running round after lo's gets the weight off doesn't it

vintage52er · 13/11/2013 07:39

Only just caught up with this new thread and haven't read it all but just wanted to say with regards to feeling cold, I've bought myself one of those electric throws as I freeze on fast days. It is the best thing ever. I use it to warm myself up whilst sitting, then get up and work and I feel lovely and toasty.
It's very economical too, just pennies per day. I bought my sister one for an early xmas pressie as she feels the cold but her husband is always too warm to put the heating on, so they are both happy now Smile

Dotty342kids · 13/11/2013 08:23

An electric throw? Sounds marvellous - more details please!

And MrsF I feel your pain too. I do work (22hrs per week) but my DH works in a demanding job and is away a lot. I know he misses us and doesn't particularly like being away but it really grates when he phones me at 8.00 at night, having been to the gym and when he is sitting in a bar or restaurant somewhere waiting for his food to arrive and I've only just sat down after doing family tea, homework, bedtimes etc and still have the dishwasher to unload, floors to hoover and lunchboxes to make! It goes make you feel slightly murderous at times Smile

Coveredinweetabix · 13/11/2013 08:24

I think I'm declaring an FD fail already as I've been up much of the night with a poorly DS and have had to take the day off work to look after him. This also scuppers my ability to do 4:3 this week.
MrsF I can sympathise. To be fair, DP did make some efforts thus morning to try & re-arrange things which was a first but DS only wants me and he is really unwell so i want to be able to keep an eye on him. I'm not sure if DP knows the number of the surgery let alone where it is & I think its likely DS will have to go back at some point today.
Moving - I'd strongly advise not giving up work. It can be a real shock, especially when all of your friends go back to work after mat leave & your child starts having tantrums. I lasted three months as a SAHM before frantically starting job hunting and was very relieved to get something quite quickly.
Biscuits good luck with your job hunt. The one you were in sounded miserable so I think you are better off out of there.

I forgot to mention another NSV yesterday which is that i am on another notch of my belt. Only two more to go...

postmanpatscat · 13/11/2013 08:37

Hugs and Thanks and Cake, if allowed, to all those dealing with poorly children, crap jobs, absent fathers and anything else that is stressing you out! My mum raised me and my sis with my dad away for up to 7 months at a time with the RN. During our childhood she dealt with measles (sis), chicken pox (both), salmonella poisoning (mum), pleurisy and a hospital stay (mum) and dysentery (all of us!)

My exH was another hard worker who couldn't bear to take a day off to spend with his family, the DC he really wanted, only took leave when we went abroad and then was on the phone/laptop several times a day, when not out for a run or reading the newspaper. Hence the exH, I suppose...

Good luck today's fasters! I'm now only 100g over my pre-half term weight Smile

Moving2fast · 13/11/2013 08:44

Thanks for that covered, definitely more to think about. On one hand I'm ok with not going back as my eldest is at nursery in the afternoons so that breaks up the day. I also don't have a huge amount of friends where we live (new to the area) so won't feel jealous about friends going back to work.

I went back to work after my first was born and did 3 days but was given an awful role as my work isn't very supportive of part time work. My husband can work long hours at times and can't always take time off for sick children so nursery drop offs and pick ups are down to me, as well as having to take time off when they are ill. We don't have any family close by either who can help out.

So written down I can see it makes sense but worry about my sense of self worth etc. I really have no idea what to do for the best!

BigChocFrenzy · 13/11/2013 09:07

Oh poor you, MrsF That is so unfair.
Sad Sad
Your DH is a selfish shit, who has some serious growing up to do. Outrageous not to do his share on holidays at least, plus helping when his own parents visit
Angry Angry Angry
If he is not prepared to take any part in parenting, is it possible for you to pay for some part-time help ? - even the conversation might wake him up a bit.
When my boss and his wife became parents (very late), they had a fulltime live-in au pair from day 1, who has remained even though the kids are now seven. His view, even before the babes arrived, was that his wife needed a life, not 100% childcare & housework. Plus he still changed some nappies, helped clean up puke & crap during illnesses, took kids to GP etc.
Men can be high-powered successes and good dads.

Amazing you stil managed your FD yesterday. That is discipline !
Flowers

Chocupid · 13/11/2013 09:08

rubbish
I do think its possible for you to hit goal at Christmas.

I have lost 3lb in 10 days with 3 not very successful fast days.

(Struggling to get my head back in the game since having the whole summer off and putting 8lb back on after losing 3 stone, since feb)

I will be happy to get rid of that and back to 9 stone for Christmas.
So 3 gone 5 to go, let's do it together!

Another not very successful FD yesterday probably hit 1000 cals, so am tempted to try again today, anyone feeling strong about today's fast day?

All this talk of chocolate isn't helping and it's everywhere at the moment, all super sized bars/tins even Christmas tree shaped ones!! ooh I need a lie down....
But off to gym, good luck today fasters!

BsshBossh · 13/11/2013 09:21

vintage52er link to the electric throw please Grin.

Men can be high-powered successes and good dads BigChoc I absolutely agree. Fortunately my DH is one of them. Which is a good thing considering it was he who wanted children, not me.

BetsyBell · 13/11/2013 09:21

Feeling very Grrrr on MrsF's behalf and others going through similar. Flowers for you all - you are wonderful amazing people who have made huge sacrifices to make life for your families easy and comfortable. A little appreciation goes an awful long way.

Angry

If it helps, I've found going out for a run first thing on a Sunday morning and even on holiday is wonderful. You can leap out of bed (yeah I know - sounds unlikely but bear with me!), chuck on some running clothes and just leave. No waiting for anyone else, no having to pack up a bag the size of a suitcase. Just running, free. H will have to take up parental duties for half an hour and who could possibly complain about you doing something so healthy? Then you get to spend the day feeling good about yourself.

Disclaimer: MrsF I realise this is not useful for now, with the pox and H going away. If you aren't a runner then I highly recommend couch to 5K - 2 years ago I would have laughed at that advice, and now I know. Also, it's not a great time of year for it, but if there's a sunny morning, even if freezing, it's pretty blissful.

OP posts: