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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

The 5:2 thread number 29 - The C word party season is not too far off, come join us and drop a few pounds. Warning! This way of eating is so easy you may never want to stop...

999 replies

BetsyBell · 22/10/2013 21:54

The continuing thread for those of us following the 5:2 fast or other forms of fasting such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012 and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat normally - or approximately your Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE - see explanation below). 4:3 is the same except you fast on 3 days in the week. Alternate-day fasting (ADF) is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. 16:8 is another form where you stick to only eating in an 8 hour window each day, therefore fasting for 16 hours each day.

By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.

You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.

WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

NFD = Non fast day

NSV = Non scale victory

Michael Mosley has a website to accompany his book on the subject. Please go check it out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

Lurkers and new starters: please just jump in and post - you'll find a lot of support here and we’re a friendly bunch.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

All our previous threads can be found by browsing through the fasting section of the site.

Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the tips and links that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

If you've been at this a while and are moving on to maintaining your goal weight, there is a thread here to discuss that.

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

There's a link to the aforementioned Horizon programme here.

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

This link nicely demonstrates that there are many body ‘right’ body shapes and types, because what we are actually aiming for is low body fat for fitness and health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley himself, very informative if you're just starting. (I highly recommend this for an overview)

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Something to consider if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful.

A HUGE THANK YOU to Greeneggsandnicht for putting together all this info and resources into one concise OP text, much appreciated by so many 5:2ers!

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 02/11/2013 12:24

B&W Thanks for the link, leads further to really useful health news

CuckooAtchooUhOh · 02/11/2013 12:30

Interesting that Bsssh!

I wonder if our bodies have some kind of memory settings? 12.6 - 12.8 was my biggest default setting, I got up to 12.13 before almost giving up wine in apr. That got me back to my 12.6-12.8 setting over few months. Since starting this woe I have now hit my other default setting (11.10) which was my highest for long time before I hit the 12's. If this carries on next one will be 11.4-11.6! Which is why I won't really feel like 'it's happening' until I get past that!

Another inspiring and encouraging example, thanks. It really helps to hear from all the 'longtimers' whether 5:2 or not totally responsible. We're all heading for healthier hotter Wink bodies, so hearing the success stories from real people (you are all real aren't you?), really makes a difference.

CuckooAtchooUhOh · 02/11/2013 12:51

MrsF - I had some physio on nhs and went to physio led Pilates classes. They really did make a difference and I found it so easy to stick to breathing/posture etc. I kept the materials they gave me for ref and also bought a really good physio recommended dvd. Trouble, as always, is I just got lazy, or to be fair to myself, probably never found the time to do it as something more obviously urgent needed doing. Trouble with things like back pain, is they can't be seen by others, so after a while you start to feel like a hypochondriac, when you're always bleating on about your 'condition'. I just need to roll out my mat and get back on it. Would love to do classes but nearest are half hour drive (live in sticks) and getting to them a bit of issue at mo.

I should know better really! I'm lucky I haven't had an episode since earlier in year, but I do notice the signs when they start nagging and the one thing I did take from physio was NOT to ignore them, so I take it easy for few days. I absolutely hated the stuff I was prescribed. The co-codamol used to knock me out and block me up! The anti-inflammatories burnt holes in my stomach and now I get recurring ulcers if I look at something the wrong way! Needless to say I avoid taking anything at all as result, so it is absolute agony when it goes.

Just listening to myself, am wondering why the hell I'm not downstairs on Pilates mat now! Wag wag finger at me. No bloody excuses - Mon I start. If I don't, I want you lot to kick my ass!!!!

eatriskier · 02/11/2013 12:53

rubbish We all come from slightly different viewpoints. I think tips advice is normally bang on, but I don't think the eating to your goal weight TDEE is necessarily achievable at the start of this journey - especially if you want to lose a lot of weight. If you want to do that, then fine but I honestly recommend starting this one step at a time. Be mindful of what you eat, try not to eat over you current sedentary TDEE and fast twice a week. Use your calories in whatever way makes it achievable for you on both FD and NFD. Get into the swing, see how it works for you and if its not going well then make adjustments. Don't fling yourself in and make it hard, especially if you think that is going to make you go nuts then feel guilty about it.

And putting my tip hat on. There are rules to eating healthily that doesn't necessarily mean calorie counting.
You can eat:

  • what you like
  • when you like
  • as much as you like
Now pick two of them.
DumDum32 · 02/11/2013 13:06

heading to a successful mini 12 hour fast - almost feel relieved that I haven't binge ate today. just an hour to go then I'm gonna have an apple. the rest of calories saved for dinner which will be mega. I'm gonna try sticking to any healthy options available fingers crossed

MrsF I've got massive mobility issues & arthritis in the neck, knees & lower back. NHS has written me off too & they won't refer me to physio eithet as they think I'm too far gone & basically have stuck me on strong painkillers. I was interested to read ur post re clinical pilates. do u think I might be able to take advantage of this method? or should I consult my Dr?

CuckooAtchooUhOh · 02/11/2013 13:54

Is awful to hear of problems getting right help on nhs. Guess I was lucky. Waiting list for the physio and Pilates was about 5 months but at least I got it in the end. Trouble was my 'episode' had eased off by that point so I didn't get the physio attention when was in the grip of it. Was so bloody annoyed because when it goes I quite literally can't walk. First time dd was 6wks old, I was on lounge floor couldn't move and dp out on the road with work. Was terrifying! Has me out for weeks/months at a time. That is another reason for the weight loss needed. It's all biscuits cycle really.

I would love to go see a chiropractor next time, as always believe in the natural approach over drugs where poss, but even that you hear horror stories with! Like severed spinal chord Shock from wrong click!

Must depend on geography as to what available. Our docs is little village surgery, only used by surrounding villages. Hospital that did physio/Pilates was small local one so prob not much of an intake. So wrong though!

Different story with dd recent diagnosis - having a nightmare as are between 3 poss major hospitals for specialists and so far it has all been shite!! Doc transferring us to new one though so fingers crossed.

CuckooAtchooUhOh · 02/11/2013 13:56

Haha! Vicious - not biscuits!! Though mmmm would prefer biscuit cycle Wink

MrsFlorrick · 02/11/2013 13:56

Dumdum. Yes. It will. You will probably also need something slightly different like massage (sounds naff but its proper sports massage like athletes have). This will help you increase mobility and relieve pain.

You can make a huge improvement in about 6 sessions of physio.

If the nhS won't help, perhaps you could fund it yourself??

If you are outside London and south east, you will find cost of sessions almost half of that in London. London private physio will run you between £125 and £150 per hour. A session is usually half an hour.

After initial improvements you can go back and have top ups when you're at your worst or feel you need it.

The nHS are shits about this. Really. Thousands of people are being needlessly disabled and consigned to a life in a wheelchair because GPs can't be arsed to refer people for physio. Even a few session can help.

I ended up spending many thousands of £ because central London physio is extra expensive and I was having two seperate issues treated. And essentially it was all done twice over ie after each pregnancy plus for DC2 I had physio during pregnancy.

Cookoo. Get down there. Get on that mat!! Fight for it. Dig deep (Jillian Michaels style shouting).

Do it. It will help you enormously.

Having gone so rapidly from young and healthy to having major issues just because of pregnancy birth and gestational diabetes, I have seen how it can completely alter your life and your outlook. And I am still amazed every day that I have clawed my way back from that. And yes I think about my former GP who wouldn't help me every time I work out and I want to give it some more welly.

Anyone got an instant spot remedy. I have a whopper on my face. Seriously. I stupidly squeezed last night so the gunk is out but I have a massive red welt on my face. Concealor isn't covering it. What will make it vanish quickly?

CuckooAtchooUhOh · 02/11/2013 14:30

When I do get started properly on JM - I will forever more call her Mrs Florrick!

Thanks
CuckooAtchooUhOh · 02/11/2013 14:34

Spot advice - best can give is leave it alone as much as poss and try to dry it out. Any moisture/product will feed it! I would do scalding flannel over said area to 'clean' it. Then leave it to air dry with nothing on til last poss second before applying industrial amounts of concealer. But if you saw my totm face right now........

Breadandwine · 02/11/2013 14:51

Another fantastic link here.

It allows you to calculate your oxygen levels and your fitness age (mine is 46).

I've already put the link on the Tips and Links thread.

Well worth checking the active posts page on the 52 fast diet forum, at least daily - they get some excellent links on there.

MrsFlorrick · 02/11/2013 15:44

Breadandwine. GrinGrin

Apparently my fitness age is 20!!

If only my face was 20.... Can you make that happen?!

Talkinpeace · 02/11/2013 15:57

www.ntnu.edu/cerg/vo2max
I'm 41
that'll do

eatriskier · 02/11/2013 16:45

Finally went on a scale at boots to check out my body fat. It reckons 25%, which isn't that bad. Nothing to compare that too of course but I sort of wanted to know. Scales showed me 4lb up, but then I wasn't going to weigh naked in the middle of Boots!!!! When I got home I weighed on our scales with clothes and shoes on and was quite surprised to find they match. But best of all… They reckon I'm a whole inch taller. Woohoo

eatriskier · 02/11/2013 16:46

Oh, my shoes won't give me that much height btw. They're relatively flat ones.

Not2bObvious · 02/11/2013 19:29

Eh hello - younger than 20 apparently? I'm 39, seems to be really based in resting pulse.
Well happy, if I'm younger than 20 I'd best get ready for clubbing, Saturday night and all that Wink

Not2bObvious · 02/11/2013 19:33

And after clubbing, I'm off to Boots as they handing out free inches Grin
Woohoo Eat, this changes a lot when you think about it, if you're an inch taller, you're skinnier than you thought, well in terms of bmi iykwim

BigChocFrenzy · 02/11/2013 19:45

Cuckoo, Dumdum Nearly 20 years ago, I had back and neck pain due to 40 hrs p.w. frozen in front of my PC at work. My GP was no help.
The gym recommended a chiropractice, which corrected the problem after only 3 visits. I just go annually now for a precautionary tuneup. So do several friends.
I went privately. My chiro charges new patients about £40 for a 1st assessment and £30 per subsequent visit. Cheaper than physio, because no equipment or large space needed.
Chiro works for some aches that GPs aren't interested in (but do try your GP first). Any reputable chiro will say if they can't help - choose one who belongs to the British Chiropractic Association.

BigChocFrenzy · 02/11/2013 19:51

Re BodyFat estimates: Also try the US Navy BF calculator (remember to select "female"). You just need a tape measure and it is accurate to about 3%
fitness.bizcalcs.com/Calculator.asp?Calc=Body-Fat-Navy

BigChocFrenzy · 02/11/2013 20:02

B&W Your link has performed a miracle for me, like not2be.

Worry: how much younger than 20 - old enough for a glass of wine ??

wrigglebum · 02/11/2013 20:50

Well I like both those calculators Grin- my fitness age is 20 and my body fat is about 23%. I checked my resting pulse yesterday and I was completely shocked it was averaging 58. Last time I checked it I was about 75, so my working out seems to be making a big difference. My body fat scales have me at 27%, but from previously being measured with calipers I think the scales overstate about 10-15%.

My spot treatment is toothpaste on it overnight- seems to dry them out nicely.

With stomach separation, I think there are some exercises called Tuplers that are supposed to help. I think it's based on the Pilates holding the stomach in. Not sure if hooping would help but I can't think it would be damaging.

MrsFlorrick · 02/11/2013 21:16

Wrigglebum. Snap. I'm you twin. Spooky.

Resting pulse also 58 now. Amazing as 10 months ago I had high blood pressure and my resting pulse rate was 89. Blush

My body fat acc to that calc is 27% also.

It's all good and my fitness age being 20 (half my actual age) is great.

Where is the calculator to remove some age from my face?

BigChocFrenzy · 02/11/2013 21:43

Final total for Saturday FD is 410: Just 100ml veg juice for lunch, evening fasted spin, then chicken, black bean, pea, carrot & garlic chilli with quinoa.
mehefin Did you FD too ?

Tomorrow is a mini-FD: fasted spin and lifting, followed by one afternoon meal, max. 50% TDEE total.
Hopefully this virtuous weekend will rescue some of Friday's frenzy.

Bssh Your post re persevering through your 4-month 2012 plateau was inspiring and very useful advice for those of us with challenges e.g. post-meno, healthy BMI but wanting my pre-meno waist.

Breadandwine · 02/11/2013 23:43

And here's a possible explanation of the dreaded plateau.

CuckooAtchooUhOh · 03/11/2013 01:06

Knew there was a good reason behind me consuming body weight in bread and cheese this evening!

(Hyacinth Bouquet/Bucket tone)

... I am not a pig! ...

" I AM DEACTIVATING MY FAMINE REACTION don't you know!"

And ..... I am not lazy!....

I AM SUFFERING FROM FAMINE REACTION ACTIVATION thank you very much!

Thanks MrBread. Am looking forward to a good read through back catalogue of links tmw with a nice cuppa (or 3) and a piece (or 6) of F.R.D cake/pastry/biscuit/choc.

Cheers Wine

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