The 5:2 thread number 26 - Bring on the Lifestyle Change Victories!

[BetsyBell]

The continuing thread for those of us following either the 5:2 diet or the alternate-day fasting diet.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012, and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat what you like, or approximately your TDEE (see explanation below). Alternate-day fasting is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.

You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.

WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

ADF = Alternate-day Fasting, as it says on the tin, fasting every other day rather than 5:2.

NFD = Non fast day

NSV = Non scale victory

Michael Mosley has a website to accompany his book on the subject. Please go check them out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

I know a number of people lurk on this thread, as this is currently quite popular. Please just jump in and post if you're new- you'll find a lot of support here.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

All our previous threads can be found by browsing through our very own fasting section of the site.

Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the tips and links that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

If you've been at this a while and are moving on to maintaining your goal weight, there is a thread here to discuss that.

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

There's a link to the aforementioned Horizon programme here.

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley himself, very informative if you're just starting. (I highly recommend this for an overview)

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Something to consider if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful.

A HUGE THANK YOU to Greeneggsandnicht for putting together all this info and resources into one concise OP text, much appreciated by so many 5:2ers!

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!

Definitely echo the low carb on fast days message. I love pickled eggs on fast days- a lovely flavour hit and you can't really over indulge as I'd struggle to eat two! Prawns are amazing too- you can eat tons for not many calories. Lidl sell cheap packs in the freezer section so you can keep them in. A prawn curry is delicious (and I keep meaning to try it with cauliflower rice).

Smoked haddock, poached egg and spinach is delicious, or try eggs baked in a tomato based sauce. Japanese ramen is amazing too- left over roast meat, tofu or prawns in a Japanese broth and vegetables, a few wholewheat noodles if you have the calories a available.

The Fast Day cookbook is great for ideas, or I use the Hairy Dieters book a lot too.

I really second everyone with planning. we always get a large joint of meat and use the leftover meat throughout the week, occasionally bunging in other meals. I have all my meals planned now until next weekend! (except the fast days, but I will plan them over this weekend). my fast days where I have failed have mainly been those where I've only vaguely planned or have changed my mind midway through. it's like planning food on the day makes me think too much about food.

Absolutely agree low-carb on fd's - protein is so much more filling. And prawn's, fish and chicken are very versatile and very yummy.

And to pick up on your point about the kids eating meat every day - B&W is vegan so he has lots of fantastic meat free ideas - I tend to put eggs on top of some of them but that's cos I'm me

Oh and missS I just checked back over my mfp and I don't really low carb on fast days. I reduce carb but I wouldn't call it low. However I do make sure its really filling and as I do the 24hr fasting I also make it a 3 course meal! Tonight its salad (with some croutons, we all need a treat), chicken broth and veg plus a yoghurt for tea. I know I'll go to be mega satisfied. I tend to play around a lot with a soup starter (more often a cup of soup) and a yoghurt dessert and fit a main in around that - I often do things like couscous stuffed pepper/irish stew/low cal ready meal if I'm feeling lazy. This is a long way of saying its feasible to not low carb but cut them enough so you get a hit but still remain full.

Agree about the carbs thing, I steer as clear as poss on fast days and use things like lentils or chickpeas as the "filler upper"! Having said that, tonight is a lovely home made roasted tomato soup, which at 122 cals per portion will allow me a nice warm ciabatta roll to go with it

Bit of advice needed........... my friend who I've finally persuaded to try 5:2 is insisting on doing it alongside her weightwatchers regime. I have tried to explain that part of the way it works is the "swing" between a normal calorie day and a very low cal fasting day, but she won't give up WW. She's lost 2lbs this first week and says her tummy def feels less bloated but can she do both? I didn't think she could / should but be interested to hear what other people think.

dotty I've heard of people successfully combining SW and 5:2 on other places, but then they tend to stall a bit quicker or more often and some have found that eating more on NFDs seems to break it and produces more consistent weight loss. I have a friend who is calorie counting and hit a plateau, I suggested she mixed it up a bit and had a few over days alongside a few under days (classic 5:2 principle!!!) so her average was whatever her target was and that's helped her. Plus she is really enjoying the over target days!

Dotty I think it's perfectly doable and she'll lose weight but it's not a longterm solution. 2 FDs a week are already a "deprivation" (though I like them!); combine those with 5 low-calorie days and that leads to 7 days of deprivation! I'd never last long on a 100% deprivation diet - it'd make me too miserable and I'd fall off the wagon very quickly.

Also, as others have noted, I lose better pendulum-swinging between high (NFDs) and low (FDs) days - the distinction between them are more marked and (I guess) keeps my metabolism in tip-top shape.

Morning all, fd here. I always have a salad for lunch to keep me going on a fd (usually with some prawns/bit of chicken) as that still leaves me with 400 cals for tea (plenty for a satisfying soup or meat/veg with small amt of boiled potato). I'm still loosing an average of 1.2 pounds per week after 4 months and have my share of high cal days at the weekend.

Think I'm off my mini-plateau of 4 weeks bibbling around 10st loosing & gaining the same 2 lbs each week as I'm down 3lbs from Monday and still have today's fd to go, so shouldn't destroy the loss over the weekend as am planning on religiously sticking to tdee. Also my new size 10 m&s trousers feel slightly loose today & i only bought them on Monday!

Happy fasting to those joining me today, onwards & downwards!

Morning. Not an FD for me today as I promised the kids they could have fish and chips after gymnastics this evening and so I want some too. I have spent far too much time (years) missing out on these little indulgences as I've always been 'on a diet'. So I shall 16:8 today and FD tomorrow.

I'm also gonna have a go at the hula hooping, I went to Argos after dropping kids at school and picked up the weighted one. It's massive! But I had a quick try and was surprised how easy it was. I'm supposed to be working now so when I get a break later I will measure my waist so I can see how it goes. I was reading some reviews and it seems there should be some noticible results from doing 10 mins a day after a couple of weeks.

MissS I hope you are feeling a bit brighter today. My tip for things like left over macaroni cheese, which I love so would eat all the leftovers of, is to portion it and freeze it.

itsaboat sounds like an excellent plan! Let me know how the hula hooping goes... I'll be ordering mine next week.
alwaysanauntie that's a great steady loss, and well done for getting off that mini plateau, it feels so good doesn't it? Those trousers will be too big for you before you know it

Interesting views re. combining 5:2 with another "diet". After years and years of dieting, gaining, dieting, I think she's just terrified of eating normally without the control of a daily calorie restriction. But you're right, I couldn't restrict 2 days a week, AND in a different way the other five days, it'd drive me mad! MFP was useful and I still use it when I feel I need to but one of the attractions of 5:2 is being able to just forget that you're on any kind of diet / eating plan and just enjoy food.

Well done always

itsa and dotty it really is quite a workout. Only managed 7 mins yesterday and I'm feeling a bit bruised on my hips and ribs. but the ache in my abs tells me that short time has done me a world of good. My tummy seems slimmer again, however that could well just be down to weight loss than the hula hoop!

Reading all the FD advice avidly to see why I've struggling - I think my fall down in the evenings is not waiting the 20-30 mins after my meal before being convinced I need more food. Scales scared me this morning but it has to be a fluctuation/undigested food cause despite any glitches, I'm still taking in less that I should, my clothes fit fine - which they wouldn't if I'd gained 4 pounds!
FD today, cup of soup planned at lunch with a decent walk to blow off the cobwebs, work v tough last few days
Best of luck fellow Thursday fasters!

Just checking in as I'm fasting today. Was supposed to yesterday but with one child sick and the other very unsettled at preschool, it was all a bit difficult.

Hopefully I'll have a better attempt today. Just coffee so far today. Will keep going until the kids are in bed. Then I'll have poached eggs, probably on a piece of low gi bread and salad. Looking forward to that already.

Desperate to get to the weekend. It's my second week back at work and its been really hard so far. I feel like a fish out of water after a year off. Both kids are unsettled too and DH is working so hard he's never about. Fingers crossed we all start to settle down soon.

JB30 the 20 minute rule is very important and definitely should apply to all "eating episodes"on both FDs and NFDs. When I'm really conscious about it, I notice my fullness signal doesn't really kick in until 20 mins after a meal so I try and wait it out. A glass of water at the 20 minute mark also works well.

FD for me today. This one is going very well, finding it easy - although I am cold!

Dinner is going to be a bowl of salad to start, pork escalopes with gruyere breadcrumb topping, courgettes, small quantity of new potatoes for main, square of chocolate for pudding.

Yum yum.

I was doing 3 fasts this week as felt I needed another one to get some weight off but I will not do tomorrow's 3rd fast of the week if you feel that is best.

I had planned on having scrambled eggs for lunch after the school run but someone crashed into my car so I grabbed some toast and had to go to the garage. Planning on salad and salami for dinner??? and maybe cheese and crackers for lunch but not sure either is a good idea. Still shaken up and can't think straight . I have some tinned fish in the cupboard.

I do normally plan but haven't shopped this week so managing with what we have in and typically plenty in for DH and the kids, not so much for me!

DH loves casseroles so happy to do those in the slow cooker. If chicken and veg they would be okay for fast days too?

BreadandWine - that veg recipe sounds delicious. Will try that.

I love making soup but the recipe book doesn't give the calorie count. Surely they would be fine for FD though if I do the veg options?

TrucksandDinosaurs - all those ideas sound amazing. Thank you.

I keep getting all teary when I think about this morning .

Not having crackers and stilton for lunch now as crackers start off the munchies of stuffing my face and don't fill me up. Thinking scrambled eggs but no toast with maybe some salami on the side.

Scrambled eggs ON salami (warm salami is nom) with slices of tomato and fresh ground pepper on top ....

Stews are great as you can hide MASSES of veg in them ....

And things like baked white fish with a tomato sauce and pasta - again nom nom

MUST STOP planning recipes for other people on fast days!

and remember that "getting the weight off" is a side effect of 5:2 - not the primary reason.
You need to get your had in the right place and then it will all start to work

and remember that "getting the weight off" is a side effect of 5:2 - not the primary reason Exactly right! DH only started fasting because he was (still is) convinced by the health benefits. He doesn't need to lose weight at all. And yet when he went to his yearly health review last week (paid for by his company), he discovered he'd lost 2.5% of his body fat. The fat loss is a by-product for him. When I'm finding fasting tough, I remind myself of the health benefits (and go back and re-read the scientific literature and re-watch the original Horizon doc).

TIP please don't stop with the recipe ideas! I am trying to find a few things that I can make for all of us and then add carbs or other extras for the DCs while DH and I eat the FD-friendly version.

I spoke to my Mum yesterday. She and Dad have been doing 5:2 for several months and have lost half a stone and 10lbs respectively. They always have something for breakfast, then nothing all day until a very small dinner.
I told her DH and I were doing a full day fast and then having all our calories for a lovely dinner. She started telling me I needed to eat something during the day, blah blah. Argh she is so frustrating - for YEARS she has moaned at me about my weight and been quite hurtful at times. And then she tells me I need to eat more!

She means well, but bloody hell she annoys me sometimes.

I so nearly bought some tomatoes this morning for me but didn't as trying not to spend anything so just bought milk and then some stuff for the kids .

Definitely understand the 5:2 is about healthy eating but I do need to lose weight. In 14 months I have gone from 13 stone 2 (obese apparently) to 11 stone 8 (this morning, sneaky extra weigh in) and since starting this I have lost 11lbs so an added bonus to me learning not to be scared of food anymore.

Going to have salami, scrambled eggs and black pepper in a bit.

Dinner - burger and bread roll I think with maybe wedges if DH wants them.

Argh the FD chills have arrived. I am freeeeeeeeeezing!

wedges OR roll : not both
make sure you do lashings of fried onion and mushrooms to make it more of a spectacular looking meal

the first bite is with the eye
if you present yourself with something that looks like a snack, it will FEEL like a snack
if you sit down at the table, knife, fork, napkin, glass of water and plate of something with chopped parsley and fresh pepper on top
it feels like a MEAL
so start to train your brain to work with you

alibaba Do as I say, not do as I do !! Mums are great like that!

bssh I'm working - so sat here typing in lots of jumpers - too tight to put the heating on ....

alibaba that's great that your parents have found a way that works for them, not so great that they can't consider other people might do it differently.

FD here, had my miso soup at lunchtime, and now sipping vanilla rooibos. I have teeny scallops and prosciutto for dinner - I'm going to try threading them on cocktail sticks, with the ham wound round the scallops, grind of lemon pepper and grilled. Served on wilted spinach. With my FD treat, a can of diet fiery ginger beer. And since the temperature's falling, an Options hot chocolate for supper.