The 5:2 thread number 26 - Bring on the Lifestyle Change Victories!

[BetsyBell]

The continuing thread for those of us following either the 5:2 diet or the alternate-day fasting diet.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012, and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat what you like, or approximately your TDEE (see explanation below). Alternate-day fasting is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.

You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.

WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

ADF = Alternate-day Fasting, as it says on the tin, fasting every other day rather than 5:2.

NFD = Non fast day

NSV = Non scale victory

Michael Mosley has a website to accompany his book on the subject. Please go check them out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

I know a number of people lurk on this thread, as this is currently quite popular. Please just jump in and post if you're new- you'll find a lot of support here.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

All our previous threads can be found by browsing through our very own fasting section of the site.

Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the tips and links that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

If you've been at this a while and are moving on to maintaining your goal weight, there is a thread here to discuss that.

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

There's a link to the aforementioned Horizon programme here.

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley himself, very informative if you're just starting. (I highly recommend this for an overview)

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Something to consider if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful.

A HUGE THANK YOU to Greeneggsandnicht for putting together all this info and resources into one concise OP text, much appreciated by so many 5:2ers!

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!

BsshBossh
Another one who suggests that people have a go at some weigh training.
I love my yoga and swimming but a weights class has quite astounding effects on changing your shape ....

Wriggle we are same weight and same next target!
How tall are you? I'm just over 5'6.

Thirded re weights. I do Jillian Michaels DVDs with the heaviest weights I can: 7lb hand weights and chest flies, dumbbell cleans with 14lb.

Oh heck. Not sure I'm brave enough for weights! I find zumba toning with those shaky sticks hard enough

Here's an interesting thread on the 52fastdiet forum (always worth keeping an eye on) on the benefits of 18 hours fasting versus 16 hours.

www.52fastdiet.co.uk/the-5-2-lab-f10/an-18-hour-fast-increases-fat-burning-vs-12-hours-t8427.html#p98920

Wondered what you thought about this quote from one of the responses. Tip?

I keep reading about IF not having great implications for glucose tolerance in women (and I know there aren't many studies) but I have read that in some of the studies done glucose tolerance in women DECREASED (contrary to what it is supposed to do re insulin sensitivity etc) and I find that worrying because that is becoming my own experience.

I'm about 5ft6 too Trucks , though just a touch under I think. Judging by the weights you can manage I suspect you have more muscle and less fat than me .

Another vote for weights here, or at least strength training. I have no patience for endless cardio- so boring (though I do like an occasional run). Using weights really ramps up your workout and burns more calories, especially if you do a fast circuits type routine. I don't do any heavy weights at the moment, just the shred, but I can't do anywhere near as heavy weights for it as Trucks yet! I had such a long break from exercising I need to build up my strength again. I'll keep up with shred and some other Jillian DVDs. I've also heard good things about the Hannah Waterman one- has anyone tried it?

Weights are really good to keep bones strong too, so more women should do some weight training. I think all those bulky men can be a bit intimidating and women are scared of getting too muscly, but that takes a LOT of work for most women. In terms of classes, body pump is amazing if you can find a class. Don't forget exercises that use your own body weight too for strength- planks, push-ups, lunges etc.

I'm feeling a bit sorry for myself but also pleased.

FD today. Did okay though I am finding I am exhausted on FD and feels pretty grotty. That's the feeling sorry for myself. The pleased bit is I had some more upsetting and stressful news but didn't dive in the chocolate bag. I dread FD now tbh .

B&W
but I have read that in some of the studies
not
I have read the studies .....
I'd like to see a link to the actual study and read it in detail
because
chances are the study was about something different but happened to include fasting so is statistically invalid

• a bit like the Minnesota / starvation mode study - which when you read the protocols was utter bilge.

MissStrawberry
Pat yourself on the back for not diving into chocolate.
That is a major positive.
If you dread a fast day, postpone it.
You should not be tired on fast days.
You need to up your fluids and protein.
Then you'll be fine. Honest

I think I might have done it wrong today again.

Miso soup for afternoon snack when too cold and hungry to fast anymore
macaroni cheese for my dinner
small bit of DH's cheesey mash

That's it. Having calorie counted the macaroni as no idea how to. I tried putting it in yesterday plus the bacon I had mixed in and it came in at 700 calories. Much smaller portion today.

wonders if any calories left to eat something nice

On myfitnesspal you can put in recipes. So add all the ingredients and it tells me how much a portion is

Carb things like pasta and potatoes will really stack up the calories - its much easier to avoid them on fast days.

I am inputting what I have eaten now.

says 373.

macaroni cheese was leftovers from the other day. I made it for the kids tea but made loads so I had it for lunch and tea yesterday and there was a bit left for today. The mash was a couple of spoonfuls as I felt spaced out with hunger . I'm crap at this

I used to find FD easy when I started, now not at all.

Fast day tomorrow.

Planning to fast until dinner as working so taking no food with me. Will also sit up stairs at lunch away from food eaters lol.
Planning minted lamb hotpot (Heinz Chunnky tin) for dinner.
With a boiled egg.
Banana for pudding then early night.

Friday- normal eating day
Saturday - 1200 calories but fasting until 5pm. Dinner and dessert.
Sunday- normal eating
Monday- 500 cal fast.

I am planning on making cauliflower cheese tomorrow. I doubt the kids or DH will eat it though so that's my lunch and dinners for the next couple of days .

MissStrawberry
All the meal options you are mentioning are high carb - not good for fasting or managing hunger.
You need to cut the carbs lots and lots and up the protein

Don't make mash
or macaroni cheese
or anything in bechamel
on fast days

omelettes
chicken
burgers
fish
EGGS
EGGS
EGGS

if the kids won't eat it, don't make it.
Make them what they will eat and what you will not scavenge

sausages in tomato sauce
home made baked beans
spanish omelette
yellow fish (smoked haddock) with crudites

I haven't had macaroni cheese for ages and just fancied it plus sick of the kids wanting meat all the time. And I thought cauliflower cheese was healthy. Tomorrow I am eating everything in the house as now I feel crap and told off. I deserve it as I should have known better that to have macaroni cheese but don't and I know you are helping me. I'm just stropping as embarrassed.

Macaroni cheese is one of my favourite foods (esp with a tad of nutmeg and mustard)
BUT
I would never consider it on a fast day ...
I've learned that the trick to making those days work is low carb, high protein : then they are a chance to play with new menus, not a chore.

Go and hide in some recipe books and plan your (and the kids) meals for the rest of the week - as forward planning is the bestest way to be in control
and control is the root cause of all food issues

We have plenty of food in but I haven't meal planned as I haven't done a food shop this week due to unexpected expenses. I have been winging it a bit as I know there is enough to feed everyone just not planned. Monday I fasted, yesterday ate normally and today a fast again and plan another one on Friday. I think I might be doing too many 16:8 whatsits.

MissStrawberry that is a lot of fasting. You sound really down and stressed out, you poor thing. Why don't you eat normally tomorrow, Friday and over the weekend and use the time to make a plan and then fast again next week with a clear head?

Something that I've instigated with this is making a big portion of some kind of casserole for dinner one night and then freezing a couple of leftover portions - enough for the DSs to have for dinner on a fast day - and then I haven't got to think about their food or spend time preparing it and fantasising about eating it when I am fasting. I've got two or three different options in the freezer for them now.
It must be hard to do this without your DH doing it as well - is there any chance he would join you?

missstrawberry hope you don't mind but I am going to echo what the others have said. Carbs will make you feel tired and lethargic and probably a bit grumpy too. Proteins are the way to go on fd. Forget about the fd on Friday and get back on track next week but plan, plan, plan.

missstrawberry Forget about carbs on fast days - remember that you can have them tomorrow instead.

Well done dotty and ali.

My stomach has shrunk too, as well generally being not as interested in the crap I used to eat in copious quantities...but I think I may have to indulge the carb monster a little this weekend in Bristol, when he comes a-calling .

MissS for my fast day dinner today I made a load of veg curry - small onion, plenty of celery, mushrooms, cabbage, etc, with a dessertspoon of soya sauce (10 cals) and a tsp of curry powder. The whole thing came to 205 calories.

I filled up a side plate with just over half of this, ate it slowly with a glass of chilled water (no wine for me on a fast day! ) and was thoroughly stuffed.

The meal came to around 120 calories, and that was over 6 hours ago - I still feel full.

I have as few calories as possible on a fast day nowadays. I used to have a small glass of beer, wine with the meal, a 100g potato with the curry, an Alpro pudding with half a banana - and still have a few cals spare for a square of dark chocolate - 55 cals.

But it's much easier to go for the low cal option. And I've learned that I mustn't go into the kitchen until 20-30 minutes after my dinner, otherwise I start dipping into the leftovers. Leaving that gap allows me to feel satisfied, and I'm OK.

Think of veg as your friend on fast days, and you won't go far wrong. But I echo what others have said - cut yourself some slack, don't be too hard on yourself, have the weekend off and start afresh on Monday.

Best wishes, B&W [hug]

miss S
Lots of low carb recipes on the Low carb bit of MN.
try www.mumsnet.com/Talk/low_carb_diets/1447493-Bootcamp-Recipe-Thread

I have no idea how people fast if they are eating low protein high carb.
The hunger makes it very hard.
A soft boiled egg mid afternoon, chopped into some stir fried spinach and then later chopped chicken breast with another big handful of spinach, cucumber, grape tomatoes and pesto/soy sauce/tarragon olive oil and lemon juice,

or chicken thigh chopped and dry fried in curry powder/Tom yum sauce with some steamed pak choi or cabbage shredded into noodles,

or fried mushrooms and shrimp with spices and a tin of chopped tomatoes and fresh coriander making a spicy soup,

or scrambled eggs/omelette with chopped wafer thin ham with fresh herbs and green salad....all fill me up.

And they are quick.

Mac and cheese, no way. I'd be starving after an hour and you could only have a measly portion.

I also think you are fasting too much and restricting too much and your stress levels are too high: raised cortisol through stress plus the stress of fasting can cause the body to hold onto weight or suffer other not good side effects.

I don't mean to be down on you: I can see you are awesomely determined. Maybe if you push less hard and take it gentler it will be easier for you - and still get great results?
Look after yourself and take care.