The 5:2 Thread Number 24 - Summer's still here so skip the snack and share the meal!

[BetsyBell]

The continuing thread for those of us following either the 5:2 diet or the alternate-day fasting diet.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012, and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat what you like, or approximately your TDEE (see explanation below). Alternate-day fasting is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.

You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.

WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

ADF = Alternate-day Fasting, as it says on the tin, fasting every other day rather than 5:2.

NFD = Non fast day

NSV = Non scale victory

Michael Mosley has a website to accompany his book on the subject. Please go check them out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

I know a number of people lurk on this thread, as this is currently quite popular. Please just jump in and post if you're new- you'll find a lot of support here.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

All our previous threads can be found by browsing through our very own fasting section of the site.

Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the tips and links that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

If you've been at this a while and are moving on to maintaining your goal weight, there is a thread here to discuss that.

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

There's a link to the aforementioned Horizon programme here.

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley himself, very informative if you're just starting. (I highly recommend this for an overview)

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Something to consider if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful.

A HUGE THANK YOU to Greeneggsandnicht for putting together all this info and resources into one concise OP text, much appreciated by so many 5:2ers!

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!

I have looked on musicroom but they don't sell marimbas and only do a child's xylophone from what I can see. Thank for the suggestion though. They do sell drum kits which I would like .

I still have 955 calories to eat . Too much so I won't.

On MFP it says 2500 for sodium. 2500 what?

give them a call - they are lovely helpful people : I bought DHs christmas accordion from there (as you do)

sodium - prob 2500 microgrammes = 2500/100000 = 0.025 of a gramme = sod all

I will take another look.

I don't add salt to anything to suspect my levels are fairly low, as I know it is hidden in lots of things.

May I join you all. I need to lose at least 5 stone and am interested in the health benefits too. I plan to fast Monday and Thursday as these are my busiest days at work and we often don't get time to eat. I could probably do 16/8 on Tuesdays and Wednesdays too.

I was planning to have 0% Greek yogurt and berries at lunchtime (my usual breakfast) and chicken stir fry for dinner. Will this be ok or will the fruit give me a sugar hit? Would I be better with soup?

Dh is already saying this is not a good idea. I won't get any support from him, I will need this thread!

Jinty you'll just have to try it and see! But your menu sounds lovely.

Why does dh not think its a good idea?

Good luck Jinty! You may be better with soup, but try it and see. Everyone has their own particular foods that work for them on fast days (for me it's scrambled eggs, padded out with lots of veg).

Just had my chicken soup - so lovely to feel full! Fasting at home is so hard. Now I remember why I avoid fasting on weekends, doh! Still, almost over now.

To be fair to dh he has seen me try so many different things over the years that it is probably not unreasonable to think that this won't work either. I start each new venture with such hope and a little bit of support from him would make it so much easier.

I am now desperate to lose weight as my health is beginning to suffer. I need this to work.

jinty
TBH the best way to get him on board is to look at the tips and hints and recipes threads and make you fast day suppers look appealing to him
the fact that you will not have eaten earlier in the day is beside the point
if he wants to try your soup or stir fry or stew
then he will support you
and you will succeed

and we will ALWAYS be here to help

Jinty, sorry your DH isn't supportive. Mine was unsure of the fasting but I think he's coming round to it now seeing how well I'm doing and how easy I find the fasts. He doesn't want to try it though! This would be easier with support so I hope he comes around, but we are all here and it is great support. Tell him that his support could be make or break and you need this for your health.

Don't expect it to fall off- remember that slower weightloss is more sustainable. You will have periods where it does come off quickly and then periods where you plateau but that's normal and ok. Don't focus on the weight so much, take some pictures and some measurements and focus on how your clothes fit and how you feel.

For really tasty fast day (and NFD) recipes I love the fast diet cookbook and the Hairy Dieters one, plus you'll get lots of ideas on here. I would suggest focussing on the savoury rather than the sweet on a fast day to keep cravings in check- maybe round dinner off with a few berries if you have a sweet craving. Lean protein and veg are great for fasts as they will fill you up. On non fast days do try to limit snacks, once you get used to dealing with hunger on fast days it gets a lot easier (and I say that as a reformed grade A grazer)! Fizzy water is great for refreshment and feels more substantial iyswim (I, along with many others on here don't want to have artificial sweeteners as they can make sweet cravings worse).

Remember this is for the long term so find ways that work for you. Try and start some exercise, gentle walking at first, a bit of strength work. Once you get fitter and stronger you can go in harder .

Thank you all. I feel quite cheered already. I have a bad back and find walking any distance at speed difficult. I hope this will improve. I do swim though. I do 40 lengths 2/3 times a week and also take ds3 (7) at weekends.

Off to bed now as up at 6.30. Will let you know how I get on tomorrow. Thanks again.

Today's FD was going so well, up early and did L2D9 of the shred. Then off to work @11.30 til 5.30. I had a M&S low cal ready meal waiting for me, then my inlaws wanted to take us all out for dinner! My first thought was not, oh how lovely, but it's a fd

On the plus side, it was a full 24 hours between meals, and I left a third of my starter and half my main!

Will have another go on Tuesday. We are off for a day at the Edinburgh fringe tomorrow so no real chance to fast. My appetite is getting smaller though, so hopefully I can keep my cals under control.

He may respond to the evidence demonstrated by Dr M on his website and in the book, Jinty. In any case, there's lots of wonderful support for you and other newbies on here. Your menu sounds fine and don't forget to plan your zero cal drinks. Good luck for tomorrow. You can do it.

Morning all! Monday FD here. I was expecting to struggle, because DH is away for ten days, and traditionally that's an excuse for me to eat "treat" foods to reward myself for solo parenting. But I woke up this morning and had stern words with myself about there being a million ways to treat myself that don't involve calorific food, and I'm still on the wagon!

So. Anyone still up who wants to tell me what their favourite non-food treats are? I'm thinking of maybe buying a really nice smelling face lotion or something, but that doesn't seem exciting really.

Morning Tortoise!

Not exactly non-food, but when I was starting to eat all my calories in the evening, I would treat myself with a flask of filter coffee (taken black with no sugar) - which we generally save for visitors.

This gave me something to look forward to through the day.

Now I alternate between mugs of warm water or glasses of cold.

I'm sure someone will come up with something more exciting, soon!

Hello it's 7.30pm here Sunday night.
Non food treats: Neutrogena rain bath shower gel is really luxurious

Booking a foot massage.

Lighting posh scented candles

Clean sheets with a few drops essential oil - rose, geranium and lavender are faves.

Checking amazon kindle for special offers.

Having 15 mins alone and lying on floor stretching very slowly listening to Bach cello or birdsong cd.

Emailing an old friend.

Walking barefoot outside and taking deep breaths and looking at clouds or stars.

Rubbing my feet with coconut oil and a few drops rose essential oil.

Listening to an album I love.

Massaging face with oil and lying down with hot flannel over it then slowly wiping oil off and massaging again.

A tall glass of diet tonic water with cucumber and fresh lime.

jinty I was very overweight when I started, unable to walk far or exercise due to very badly sprained Si ligaments and still suffering with SPD so trapped in a bad weight gain/pain cycle. the shifting weight has really helped, eventually I started the 30 day squat challenge. now I can do long walks, 250 squats a day and use my elliptical/cycle (not at the same time though, I still have SPD issues ). I'm off the heavy drugs and haven't com near to my back being spasmed out for ages.

tortoise sadly the only non food treat I can think of is
it is not in my defence and quite that its 6:45 here...

Eagle, that's my usual go-to, unfortunately!

BAW, thank you, but sugarless black coffee is not a treat for me, I've only recently taught myself to choke the stuff down on a fast day.

Posh candles sounds nice. I'm v intrigued about the oil massaging thing, TAD, any old oil or special stuff?

Morning all

I think a treat is having the house to yourself and doing exactly what you like (wishful thinking as I'm on day 6 of 10 days of looking after DSD - DP at work and my own DC away on hols)!

Fasted yesterday, weighed in after I got back from the gym and have stayed the same as that this morning, fair enough. I'm 200g higher than my lowest so far and would quite like to lose that plus 100g more before we go away on Sunday. I doubt I'd look any different it's just a pre-holiday milestone that will make me feel better about indulging myself while away.

Good luck to today's fasters :)

Hi all
can I join as your thread nears its end? I have several stone to lose and would be very proud and happy to lose two. I started 5;2 last week and have done my first two days - Wednesday and Sunday. It was easier than I thought it would be and I liked the way the hunger actually passes.
I have two quick questions that I can't find answers to in the threads.

1. On both my fasting days I have woken up the following morning with a thumping headache. Doe this mean I am not drinking enough water? Is this typical of the early stages?

1. Do you exercise on a fasting day? Or is it better to go to the gym on a non fasting day?

TIA

Definitely little beauty treats are good- a face mask, deep conditioning treatment, paint your toenails, a nice bath etc. Or just watching what you want on tv, or a trashy magazine or something. For a food treat on NFDs you could always buy some ridiculously expensive chocolates and just have one each day after your dinner?

Fast day here too, going to have lunch today, half a mackerel fillet and salad, then pesto chicken and veg for dinner. I like to mix up what I do to keep my body guessing! I think my chicken poxy boy has finally scabbed over so we can get back out into the world, just a shame it's so wet today.

Experiment with drinking more water - also make sure you're getting enough salt. A Bovril/ Oxo/ Marmite type drink before bed might help.

You can certainly exercise on a fast day, but I'd not try anything too strenuous until you're into the swing of it.

My fast day treats - I have a special jar of maple scented coffee that I ONLY drink on fast days. I have some posh body lotion reserved for FDs as well - take a long shower in teh evening and then spend time msoiturising. I often paint my finger or toenails on FDs too, a sort of mini-pampering reward. Anything that involves treating your body well "feels" like a good reward.

saffron if you can exercise first thing and are used to doing so without breakfast, that's probably the best idea for fast days. I do exercise during the evenings on fast days but tend not to push myself as hard. I fasted yesterday and spent 50 mins on the crosstrainer before doing a 5 mile run, all finished before lunchtime (except I didn't have any lunch!)

Ooooh melanie. Maple scented coffee you say? Please tell me more.

saffron what sort of exercise? I go to an evening fencing class on a Wednesday fast day which includes sprints and things - I have half my evening meal beforehand (generally soup with chicken and lentils, or with fish and noodles), and the other half when I get home, and it's fine.