The 5:2 Thread Number 24 - Summer's still here so skip the snack and share the meal!

[BetsyBell]

The continuing thread for those of us following either the 5:2 diet or the alternate-day fasting diet.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012, and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat what you like, or approximately your TDEE (see explanation below). Alternate-day fasting is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.

You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.

WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

ADF = Alternate-day Fasting, as it says on the tin, fasting every other day rather than 5:2.

NFD = Non fast day

NSV = Non scale victory

Michael Mosley has a website to accompany his book on the subject. Please go check them out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

I know a number of people lurk on this thread, as this is currently quite popular. Please just jump in and post if you're new- you'll find a lot of support here.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

All our previous threads can be found by browsing through our very own fasting section of the site.

Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the tips and links that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

If you've been at this a while and are moving on to maintaining your goal weight, there is a thread here to discuss that.

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

There's a link to the aforementioned Horizon programme here.

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley himself, very informative if you're just starting. (I highly recommend this for an overview)

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Something to consider if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful.

A HUGE THANK YOU to Greeneggsandnicht for putting together all this info and resources into one concise OP text, much appreciated by so many 5:2ers!

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!

Saffron- I got bad headaches the first couple of fasts despite drinking plenty. Don't now so I guess I've got used to it. But try lots of herbal tea, fizzy water etc to keep you hydrated. I've started exercising on fast days and it's a lot easier than I thought but earlier in the day is better if you can fit it in. I'm doing the shred now, I find the cardio bits lots easier on a fast day but the weights a bit harder.

Scented/ flavoured coffees are pretty easy to find - my current jar is by Douwe Egberts and I got in in Sainsburys.

saffron I find exercising in the mornings on fast days works best for me as it keeps me busy and distracted for the first party of the day and it also seems to knock the initial breakfast hunger on the head too. If I don't exercise on fast days my tummy starts grumbling much earlier!

Fast day as usual for me today.

Tortoise I don't have any exciting ideas but my non-food treats are bubble baths, early nights, box-sets, reading the paper in a cafe and browsing in charity shops (living the fast life...).

Another night with v little sleep but no hangover after night out. Had a good night but it was after 3 getting to bed, a fact my kids could less about! It's going to be a nfd for sure. Proper tired and looking forward to a bacon sarnie I am so going to need 4:3 this week to get back on track and work all that -delicious- white bread out of my system.
Have a great day Monday fasters

I too had a bit of a piggy weekend, so no calorie deficit at all last week, but this morning's official weigh confirms i have lost 1 stone since starting mid-may! Woo hoo :) :)

saf hope it goes ok later, am starting to worry a little about my clinic appt on Wednesday but am fasting today, weds and Fri to take my mind off it! xx

Well done Alwaysanauntie, that's awesome!

Non fast day for me but strangely I don't feel hungry. Had some granola with skimmed milk though. And it's nice to have milk in tea - I have my earl grey with lemon on fast days but milk is soooo much nicer.

Morning all!
FD for me today after a bingetastic weekend that sees me starting the week a couple of pounds up. Frustrated with myself as I started off well: friends staying for the weekend, and had a small breakfast of a Dukan galette (one egg mixed with a small amount of oatbran and cinnamon and cooked as a pancake - much nicer than it sounds!), followed by lunch in a café where I had two small starters (scallops and a fishcake). After that it took a turn for the worse: a MASSIVE flapjack which I ate in one go despite being full halfway through (I really should have saved the other half for later), then picking all afternoon when I wasn't hungry, followed by seconds at suppertime which I didn't want or need, all polished off with a whole tub of ice-cream and more picking/grazing on dried fruit, seed etc.

I know that for many people this wouldn't represent anything too bad (OMG a flapjack - the horror!), but for me it felt horribly out of control and I went to bed feeling overly full and really ashamed of myself for being so weak-willed and unable to tear myself away from the cupboards. Sunday was much better as I still felt full from the night before and so skipped breakfast and had a small bowl of soup for lunch and a light supper, which feels like it undid some of the damage, but now I'm starting the week wondering whether I'll ever have the strength to resist my (emotional) need to pick and graze. FDs are easy in that respect provided I can stay busy , but it's on NFDs, especially in the late afternoon and evening when I'm tired and feel "taken from" by the kids all day, when I feel the inevitable slide into grazing. Always on fairly "innocent" food like dried fruit, but I eat so much of them that my pancreas literally hurts from all that sugar, and the type of food really isn't the point - I'm not hungry, I don't physically need the food, but it's like it's my only way of taking time for myself and blocking the world out for a few minutes. When I was younger I never used to eat like this, but then again I used to smoke, and now I'm wondering whether this fills that gap: a way of removing myself or doing something when I don't know what to do next....

Sorry to go on and on, and about the me me me post, but I'm just hoping that someone else can relate to this and help me find a way through...

PP please don't feel any shame about picking at food when you have it available - it's what we humans are programmed to do!

This post on my blog explains all (or most ):

nobreadisanisland.blogspot.co.uk/2013/06/52-diet-intermittent-fasting-aand.html

Once you know why you feel impelled to eat, you'll be better able to resist.

B&W

Week 5... Starting to feel benefits.. In that 2 people commented on how well I was looking. Clothes feel slightly more comfy. FD today. Planning to not eat until 6ish.

hi there - trying to fast today but have no food at all in house as going on holiday tomorrow (and know that I won't fast for next 10 days ) and I think I will have to get takeaway for DSs' lunch. hmmm - keep on with the black coffee!
I am pleased with my progress so far - 9lbs in as many weeks and clothes definitely are feeling baggy

Thanks so much everyone for helpful comments. Exercise always makes me hungry so I have been worried about making the fast days harder.

PP of course you picked all evening, your blood sugar would have dropped through the floor after the flapjack.But you did the right rhing, you balanced I out with a fast and you're ready to move on. My bet is that, next time you're faced with an enormous flapjack, you'll cut off a small piece and put the rest out of temptation's reach before you fully enjoy the amount you've allowed yourself.

Re evening picking. I've found that the best way to reduce that is to go to bed when I'm tired. I used to stay up because I "needed some alone time" but I would snack to get the energy to do that. That's why I'm the size I am now. I am sure there are things you do on an evening to make the next day easier but, if you go to bed instead of snacking, you'll have loads more energy the next day (once your body gets used to the new routine) and you'll be more productive so tou won't miss that time. Boredom and tiredness are massive contributors to emotional evening. Make going to bed lovely. Moisturise, brush your hair, put on a splash of perfume and curl up in your comfy bed without a bloodstream full of sugar keeping you awake. Bliss.

Forgot to say. Ear infection pretty much gone so back to fasting :) going to put shredding on hold til later in the week when I have had a full day with no dizziness. Just to be on the safe side.

Couldn't finish my 2 eggs this morning. Almost certainly because of a massive blowout yesterday (pizza and chips). Thankfully, I didn't eat as much last week so came in under tdee anyway. Every little helps

Breadandwine Thank you for the kind words! You are right of course: we are programmed to eat like that, particularly "instant gratification" stuff like fruit and nuts (unfortunately for me as these are my main weakness!). I completely agree with your blog post: it reflects my experience completely in that, if I can resist picking and grazing when the urge strikes I don't feel hungry and the urge goes away, but that if I give in to it, even with something like the raw vegetables I'm preparing for supper, then I'll pick and graze endlessly and find it almost impossible to stop once I've started!

HellesBelles Yes, flapjacks are the worse for bloodsugar, especially those the size of a brick! I just need to remember those awful feelings of disappointment and despair that always follow these episodes to help me stop when I've had enough, or even better, not to start in the first place: I wasn't hungry when I ate it as I'd only had lunch an hour earlier! All the way through I kept on thinking "I really should save the rest of this for later...just one more bite....and now it looks uneven so one more to straighten it up....and now there's so little left there's no point saving it so might as well just finish it"!

You're right too about tiredness being a factor: I do think that an earlier bed would solve a lot of the problem. The problem is that from 6.30 to about 10.30 is witching hour for my 16-week old DS when he screams and won't settle, so I end up having to feed him endlessly in the late evenings to settle him (he is breastfed and won't take a bottle) so I can't leave him with DH and go to bed! Still, with any luck this phase won't last too much longer, and then earlier nights would deffo be a good solution, for the evening snacking at least! As for the 4pm grazing, I might have to resort to pinning my weight chart on to the cupboard to remind me why I need to resist!

Oh and Berri: Hi! It's great to have a bit of a "twin" on here who's in a similar place weight/size wise (and new baby wise!). I hope you're doing OK?

Hi, just adding my musings before shuffling off to bed( have just done night shift). Should imagine this thread will be closing later. Its been a good one, seem more motivated to boot snacking into touch and stop buying so much wine, because that's whats holding me back Im sure.

tortoise and trucks, enjoyed your posts during the night, about non food treats. Notice all the sensory stimulation involved, appreciating nature, bird song , nice music, scented candles... Maybe we're just tuning into our taste buds too much and forgetting the other senses can also bring us delight. Hellesbelles, yes I love a splash of perfume before bed, and clean sheets.

pandapops been there many a time, but not nearly half as much since discovering 5:2 and this thread. Best just remember how rubbish you feel for next time, and how much better you feel when you do listen to your body. For some reason we have an excessive abundance of blueberries, so did some baking this morning, blueberry flapjacks of all things, which weirdly I can handle on a FD, but I forgot and licked the spoon! Never mind, will carry on. The old me would've reasoned that I've blown it, might as well pig out. 5:2 me doesn't do that. Really glad I found this thread and not the AIBU one, avoid those anyway, so negative and borderline troll baiting.

hurricane Ive never seen you in my life! You look so tiny, and younger than 46. If I ever get to goal(I think its going to be a while), I will post some pics.

saf, no not had the cold thing since we've had nice weather. But have had an increased desire for alcohol, especially white . I wonder how many calories are in your hen's practise eggs!

Gilbertus are you going to keep going with the 5:2? Sounds like its doing you good.

alwaysanauntie

Lovely to read about losses, compliments and clothes feeling better - well done to all of you

Undoing the damage of the weekend today but feel really tired still after disturbed night's sleep (wine!) on Saturday.
Been to zumba and have got game of tennis booked for 6.00pm which is normally the time I'd be having my FD dinner. It'll either be a brilliant distraction to the end of the day or finish me off completely!

well done auntie

Am waiting in for a courier today. DS's first nap hit at a great time for getting exercise done. May use his second one to give myself a little mini pedicure. Though I am willing to bet that as soon as the foot cream is on that either the little blighter will wake up or the courier will arrive.

Panda, I totally, completely understand re being 'taken from' by the kids and blocking out me-time. This is why I drink wine almost every evening, it marks the start of adult time. And it's also why I was worried about this week, because DH is away for a fortnight, and I usually feel the need to make the 'me time' more rewarding to compensate (mine are 20 months and 4, and the younger is a pretty intense child - nothing as hard as a baby, but exhausting nonetheless!).

But! Here I am, at the end of an ... odd ... fast day, with a completely silent house and a mug of camomile tea, and it's fine. Lovely, actually. You're in the thick of it right now, 16 weeks old is total murder, but it'll get better very soon. In the meantime, be kind to yourself, have a look at all those non-food treats others have so kindly suggested to me today, and find ways to block out the world that will make you feel good at the end of the day.

Re: odd fast day.

Plan for the day: late morning skim latte, chicken and lentil and veg soup for dinner. Cooked the day before. Nothing can stop me!

Actual day: late morning skim latte. Secretary accompanies this with little homemade pastry with smoked turkey and fetta cheese, baked this morning. Okay then. Probably...150 cals? It was v small. So already up to 220 cals with the coffee. Prepare self for Total Failure.

Get home, cook DDs dinner. Sausages and mash, and I do a great mash - half potato, half cauliflower, simmered in chicken stock and then drained, mash with a bit of cream and biutter. DD2 refuses all but three bites of hers. In attempt to persuade the stubborn little blighter dear thing, take an exaggerated bite of her mash. Realise mash is really very delicious. DD2 maintains stubborn attitude. Eat all of DD2's mash. And then her sausage. Someone had to, right?

But! I have calculated this out, and one sausage and one scoop of mash, bearing in mind that this was a toddler's portion, is about 200 cals. Maybe 250 if I'm fooling myself.

Oddly, that seems to be enough. I'm drinking tea, I'm having an early night, the chicken soup is in the fridge for Wednesday's dinner instead. I am a fasting superhero, wresting victory from the jaws of defeat!

(Also I clearly do not require wine to type total nonsense)

Thanks Tortoise - sounds like we're in a similar boat: I've got a full-on three year old too! Non-food treats are a really good idea....any excuse to buy lovely bath smellies and perfume! In fact, thinking about it, I find that foodie smelling smellies can really help satisfy sweet cravings, like Lush's Creamy Candy bath bar, which smells so very sweet that (for me at least) it induces the same relaxed sensation that sweet foods do, but without any guilt, of course! A fortnight without DH sounds like hell - good luck! You'll need lots of lovely baths as a reward this week! Hope you enjoy your quiet evening and tea x

THe other advantage of non food treats is that they do not make you feel cross with yourself after

as a confirmed piss head I strongly recommend trying not to drink on four days a week
you NEED to give your liver a break : and its busy enough dealing with all the fats that are coming out of long term storage!

Good advice Tip - luckily alcohol is one place where my lack of brakes isn't a problem as I don't drink it at all - not because of any issues there, but just because I don't like the taste and don't like feeling out of control (no surprise there, I'm sure, given my control issues with food!). It probably does limit the NFD damage too, as I'm sure my grazing/bingeing would be a million times worse if I were drunk!

Brilliant Always.
I'm wavering today on my fast day (I think because the family event I was initially losing weight for is over and I'm also back at a normal-ish weight).
Going to have a large black coffee and some gum... I can eat tomorrow.