The 5:2 Thread Number 23: Summer's really here - time to melt off those extra pounds!

[BetsyBell]

The continuing thread for those of us following either the 5:2 diet or the alternate-day fasting diet.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012, and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat what you like, or approximately your TDEE (see explanation below). Alternate-day fasting is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.

You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.

WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

ADF = Alternate-day Fasting, as it says on the tin, fasting every other day rather than 5:2.

NFD = Non fast day

NSV = Non scale victory

Michael Mosley has a website to accompany his new book on the subject. Please go check them out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

I know a number of people lurk on this thread, as this is currently quite popular. Please just jump in and post if you're new- you'll find a lot of support here.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

All our previous threads can be found by browsing back through the fasting section of the site.

Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the tips and links that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

If you've been at this a while and are moving on to maintaining your goal weight, there is a thread here to discuss that.

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

There's a link to the aforementioned Horizon programme here.

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley himself, very informative if you're just starting. (I highly recommend this for an overview)

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Something to consider if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful.

A HUGE THANK YOU to Greeneggsandnicht for putting together all this info and resources into one concise OP text, much appreciated by so many 5:2ers!

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!

Hi, I tried my first fast day yesterday and now I feel dreadful. I've given myself a migraine so bad I think I'm going to have to call in sick, which is terrible. The hunger was ok, I managed 530 cals but my headache started coming on in the afternoon and I hardly slept last night. I was worried about taking pills on an empty stomach too so I didn't take anything, which is why it's now migraine level
Does anyone else who suffers from migraines manage on this WOE? I'm not sure I can do it.

That sounds horrible Shelldockley. Maybe this isn't for you. Hope you feel better soon.

Eighth fast day and I can tell it's going to be the toughest yet. Already hungry and going somewhere where they have delicious Greek cakes (very sweet foods are a total trigger for me).

Plan: fill up on lots of black coffee; buy gum; stay busy; consider buying diet fizzy drinks (I know, I know). I can eat baklava tomorrow.

Fast day yesterday and I ended up doing nearly 24 hours without food (well I had one raspberry and a 1cm crumb of chocolate cake before then, so not really food!). Chicken poxy boy couldn't sleep so I didn't get dinner until nearly 10pm and just had two poached eggs on one slice of marmite toast and an apple. Not feeling hungry at all now so I'll just have a little breakfast, then I have lots of left over birthday cake to eat and loads of food for a barbecue tonight (assuming I don't have to cancel).

My poor big boy is rather suffering with chicken pox, he had to be carried around all day yesterday. Little boy was sick all over the bathroom so wonder if he's about to get it too (big boy was sick a couple of days before getting spotty). He's been a bit grouchy so wouldn't be surprised.

shell that's horrible. hope you feel better soon. I suffer with migraines but have been lucky in that this woe hasn't triggered anything. If you do try again though make sure you have some things to replace salts in your system like bovril/boullion/banana, as the salts going out of sync in your system can cause bad headaches.

wriggle poor dcs. hope they get better soon too.

shelldockley. You poor thing. I suffer from migraines but since I started 5:2 (June 1st) I have not had an attack. Are you in the uk? Perhaps it was a combo of the heat and not drinking enough liquids to compensate for both the heat and the fasting? I am finding that I am drinking a lot more water etc. now on fast days than I did a few weeks ago when the weather was milder. ERD's suggestions are excellent too.

wriggle. Your poor babies. Hope you are holding up too.

tortoise and chrystal stop torturing yourselves

6 weeks Tiger - first congratulations on the new baby, is it your first? It seems awfully soon to be worrying about babyweight - do you have an impending magazine cover photoshoot or something? I thought only slebs worried about losing so soon! I'm firmly in the '5 years' camp

In all serious my instinct is to say just focus on eating healthily and come back to this in a few months, having a tiny baby is stressful enough. You could always try eating half your usual amount 2 days a week to get a feel for it?

Impromptu fast today, still stuffed from a large meal yesterday and my usual Thursday is out due to social things so I'm doing it today. I'm going to do it slightly back to front so I get the bulk of my fasting hours this evening and tomorrow morning. My schedule dictates an early lunch today so I'm going to do that then have an early supper, skip breakfast tomorrow and voila 20 hours proper fast after I've had my 500 calories.

aka Nice NSV :) - sometimes I think that this WOE redistributes the weight in a more flattering way! And that's why clothes fitting and nsvs are a better thing to focus on than the scales...

ERD that's interesting about the salts, I had a Glorious soup for lunch which must have had salt in, not sure if that would have had enough though.
Notastired, I did drink loads of water to keep me busy, more than usual as I couldn't stomach the fruit teas I usually drink as they were making me feel ill on an empty stomach.

If I try this again maybe I'll try it on a Friday when at least if I get a migraine I know I can sleep it off the next day! If anyone else who normally gets migraines could post what they eat on FDs, maybe I'll try again. Off back to bed now, good luck to those fasting today!

Morning all, got on scales this morning and am 3lbs up from Friday! Yikes! TOTM due today so am really hoping that's the cause as yesterday was a fast day so would not have expected to see any kind of gain
Usually I go on a mad eating binge at this time, when period is due, but think the heat has killed that desire at the moment. Just made a veggie chilli for my NFD dinner tonight and had a banana yoghurt for breakfast so plenty of spare cals in the day to allow for a sneaky Magnum!

Its a tip I picked up from a different 5:2 group. Migraines and headaches can be caused by too much salt and too little salt! When fasting you tend to drown yourself in water, which strips salt out of your system. Not that you should go mad with salt of course, but things like bovril and bananas are great for restoring salt balance. Or electrolytes as posh technical places call them!

ERD that's useful info. I don't get migraines (poor Shell) but I do get FD headaches, which I've been ineffectually treating with even more water.

Dotty, totm always means 3lb for me, I bet that's it.

oK i need help. Been doing 5:2 for 2.5 weeks. Not finding fast days that bad except one last week where I did a tough workout the morning after a fast and got a migraine for the rest of the day.

non fast days have been below TDEE (which is 2344 according to the website) - between 1300 and 1800. In this weather I am eating a fair amount of salad and gazpacho etc so not very calorific stuff. I don't eat red meat so supper is usually grilled chicken and salad/veg, lunch usually salad w eg mozarella or feta. Sometimes skip breakfast sometimes I have lizzi's granola w total 0% yogurt and berries. And I eat chocolate!

On fast days have been skipping breakfast, having a salad of around 100c for lunch, and a larger grilled vegetable-based dinner with feta, halloumi or white fish, chicken, turkey - all weighed and calorie counted via mfp.

But I basically have not lost at all, despite 5 fast days now, and working out 4 times a week - mix of cardio and weights. I am possibly 2lb down but it fluctuates a lot and the highest weight was the day before my period and was feeling ++ bloated so think it was a bit higher than normal anyway.

Am not noticing any change in clothes either.

Started off at 12st 9 (pre period). Been down to as low as 12st 4 last saturday but now up to 12st 6.5 this morning even morning after a fast day. Start at size 12 on top, large 14 bordering on 16 on bottom. Keen to get down to a 12 all over which is where my wardrobe works best! To do that I probably need to be around 11st, poss a bit higher if I really work out and get very trim - I am 5ft9 and 'big boned' - I carry weight well except my hips always look out of proportion!

Any clues? Am drinking tonnes of water and diluted cranberry juice so it's not water retention.

Really want to shift the weight and not sure what to do next.

Right first FD today! I'm changed my mind about having 2 meals as I tend to be able to control myself until I begin eating and then find in hard to stop. I have brought some sparkling water into work and a cucumber to munch on and am planning on a boiled egg and one slice of toast for dinner.

I had a fruit tart in te fridge which will go off if its not eaten today but instead of putting off beginning I've brought it in to share with my team at work. I think I might go outside at lunchtime and read to avoid seeing everyone eating.

Tortoise, I've been caught out by naughty scales too. I took my starting weight on my scales at home then went to China for 6 months. I started fasting the day after my plane landed and when I saw my clothes were loose after 4 weeks I couldn't resist buying myself a cheap set of scales out there. Unfortunately, when I got home I discovered that my Chinese scales had told me I was 3kg lighter than I really was. Even though it was a scale glitch not me putting on weight, it did feel a little like I was regaining lost ground while I lost those 3kg.

thaliablogs, not quite sure why you're not losing weight. A couple of things spring to mind: are you counting the kcals in the cranberry juice on fast days? Also, did you start exercising at the same time as you started fasting or is this an ongoing exercise regime? If you've started exercising recently it could be water retention because I think the body retains water while it repairs the little tears we make in our muscles when we work out, especially if we weight train.

thalia in 2.5 weeks you've lost 2.5 lbs, and had TOM in midst of that. That's a good loss. Give it another week or so to see whether you keep bouncing up (I know the 12 stone 4 threw you) before you change anything.

Thalia, I'd give it a full month before assessing whether its working or not. As you can see, fluctuations in weight can be quite a bit, try not to let them get to you.

Nurse thanks for the thoughts. Not drinking juice on fast days, only water. I have been exercising 2-3 days a week for a while, just turned it up to 4 d/w in the last 3 weeks.

thalia sometimes it just takes a while to kick in, but tbh when i first read your post it looked to me like you're not eating enough on your NFD's 1300-1800 and also 2 fast days sub 500, where is your bmi at?

have you been doing low cal before fasting?

but you say that you are not losing, when in fact you are 2.5 pounds lighter than when you started? and it's only 2.5 weeks in, unless you have lots of weight to lose, an average of 1 pound a week is fairly common, that's what i lost - on average - when I started - (I was in overweight bmi, and wanted to lose 12-14 pounds to get in normal)

this is not a fast and furious weight loss method, it's a lifelong way of eating to give health benefits and minimise the detrimental effects of eating more of what you like on NFD's it won't suit everyone, but I would honestly say stick with it, like you have already seen the weight does bounce around a bit, a downward overall trend is what you need!

whitershade well done you on working out pre first fast that holding off eating til just one meal is the best way to go, even now after nearly a year I still tend to split into 2 more of the time, but do find it easier now to hold off til evening. good luck!

welcome all other newbies, sorry, not enough time to catch up with you all personally!

Fast day here, still feeling very buoyed up with realisation that I have lost the 6 pound gain that brought me back onto main losing thread from maintainers, now keener than ever to get my maintenance weight down lower.

NSV yesterday popped round to a (very slim) friends pre school pick up and she was in her bikini in the garden, I felt no issue whatsoever with stripping off my dress and joining her in my underwear, and she commented that I was looking great and slim and that 5:2 obviously worked great for me, good to hear although I still need to lose more that damn pregnancy tummy but I'll get there, and may really have to start doing some exercise other than cycling!

shell I get migraines (usually associated with muscle tension in my neck, but also brought on in a matter a seconds with certain high contrast patterns) and have had one bubbling for the last week (heat doesn't help and strained my neck) so avoiding them depends what causes them - I know I need to do more neck stretches to get this one shifted. I also agree with ERD's salt comment, I often perk up after a large bag of crisps, although as it's another FD for me today, don't think I can afford one out of my daily cals!

thalia expect to lose 1 lb a week, so 2.5 lbs for 2.5 weeks is bang on! This is a slow but long-term shift, while many experience a big drop in the first week or two, not everyone does and it can take your body a good few weeks to get into the swing of things. Most people's weight bounces all over the place in the short term, so stick with it and you will get results :)

Thanks for all the comments! Yes I thought maybe not eating enough on nfds but really not been that hungry! Will up it a bit where it makes sense.

I was not doing low cal before starting, but I do have a lifelong history of yoyoing although not extreme - 7 years ago I was up to 14st 7, lost 3 stone over a 15 month period through exercise and low cal (but not extreme - 1500-1800). Then gained a tonne in my first pregnancy and didn't start to lose it til 2 summers ago, got back down to around 12st and been creeping up this last 8 mths through combo of getting an injury which stopped me running, and misery eating!

Starting a new job in sept so want to go into it super healthy and feeling confident.

Will give it a few more weeks, we are going on hols on 3 August so wanted to be a bit lighter before then.

Oh yes, bmi is currently 26.1. I am aiming for the 22ish range. We'll see!

Normal day for me today iv ealked about a mile this morning into the town centre. Then stopped off and had a coconut and apricot slice with a cup of.. having chilli with rice tonight for dinner..havent had lunch yet not feeling very hungry to have lunch. Shud I eat or shud I jus go with my body..eat when im hungry?..

Cup of tea*

WI day for me today, and I totally forgot to weigh myself . I don't know if that's good or bad. I usually WI in the morning so not going to bother today now.

dines personally I would wait and just eat when hungry.