The 5:2 Thread number 22! Put down that biscuit - you can eat it tomorrow

[BetsyBell]

The continuing thread for those of us following either the 5:2 diet or the alternate-day fasting diet.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012, and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat what you like, or approximately your TDEE (see explanation below). Alternate-day fasting is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.

You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.

WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

ADF = Alternate-day Fasting, as it says on the tin, fasting every other day rather than 5:2.

NFD = Non fast day

NSV = Non scale victory

Michael Mosley has a website to accompany his new book on the subject. Please go check them out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

I know a number of people lurk on this thread, as this is currently quite popular. Please just jump in and post if you're new- you'll find a lot of support here.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

First things first, here are links to some of our previous threads:
most recent, one before that, another one!

Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the tips and links that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

If you've been at this a while and are moving on to maintaining your goal weight, there is a thread here to discuss that.

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

There's a link to the aforementioned Horizon programme here.

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley himself, very informative if you're just starting. (I highly recommend this for an overview)

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Something to consider if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful.

A HUGE THANK YOU to Greeneggsandnichts for putting together all the info and resources into one concise OP text, much appreciated by so many 5:2ers!

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!

Aye, aye, Cap'n! Welcome aboard! (Sorry!)

If you read back through the threads you'll find many examples of posters plateauing for extended periods. Generally the advice is to keep going, but be scrupulous about eating below your TDEE on NFDs. Make sure you've calculated your TDEE properly - and don't rule out - as Tip says,
... an underlying medical problem.

I'm sure there'll be someone along who's had more experience at this than I have.

ATB, B&W

Thanks B&W - I do love a nautical greeting

I'm on 1200 cals on NFDs, using MFP to log food and exercise. It's reassuring to know other people hit the plateau. I will persevere and hopefully it won't take years months to reach my target..

JB30. Didn't mean to scare you.

tryinghard2 seems like we're not the only people who find new scales not all they're cracked up to be. I just came across this thread on the 52fastdiet forum:

www.52fastdiet.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5799&p=61558#p61558

moll you need to eat loads more than 1200, find out your tdee and eat close to that.

I've had pizza and chocolate to compensate for the run!

Great run Postman that is amazing!

JB30 tomorrow is another day.
Captain Moll loads of people on here have plateaued for a long time, but they kept going and noticed either that inches were going down, or it came off eventually. Keep going!!
Southeast that olive bread sounds divine! I'm going to have yoghurt with fruit and brazil nuts.

Being friends on mfp is a good idea. My name is Libra Vixen. I haven't really logged this week, but will be doing so again from tomorrow. Night

Just seen your other post Capt and 1200 isn't enough. That's what I did the first time trying this out and it just didn't work. Figure out your TDEE and eat up

bread&wine oh dear! good to know its not just me :) im going to get weighed somewhere else and compare them - i tried to weigh something heavy on them that i know the weight of like big bottles of water but it doesn't like that, didn't register any weight at all! the thing that makes me suspicious is that they think im the same weight all the time and im sure im not that consistent :)

b&w and there was I thinking you had an iron willpower! Resist temptation...

captainmoll plateaus are all part of this WOE but you may find you're still losing inches even though the scales aren't changing. Have a look at the tips and links page, there's lots of sound advice that may help ease your mind about it (link in OP)

HITC, thanks for the words of advice and encouragement, much appreciated . I am NOT going to be discouraged!!!

Captain, I am one of those who seem to be on a plateau at the moment, about 4 weeks so far. I am keeping the attitude that if I keep doing the right thing the results will come eventually. My main issue is trying to avoid constant tweaks to get a faster loss. I've never really understood the saying "slow and steady wins the race" (), but it seems appropriate in this case.

I ended "curry week" with a lovely meal out at our local curry house last night, with DD, dad and sisters. Didn't eat all day in preparation, but it was worth it!

Cricket, eh, B&W? I like to watch it but never could play. Going to see England v Australia later this year, and looking forward to that

The more I think about it the more I wonder if scales should be abandoned, or at least only brought out once or twice a year. My dad, who is as thin as a rake, doesn't have a set of scales. Tape measures are probably more accurate than most scales, and you get consistent measurements. And clothes and the mirror tell us a lot of what we want to know. Many's the time I've felt good about my progress from other indicators, just to have it ruined by an apparent quarter pound gain on the scales. And really, who cares if I'm 14 stone or 13 stone 13.75lb?

Rant over, back to bed with a now.

Aka I'm heading into my 3rd 16:8 of the week. Actually it's really my 5th cause I am following a 16:8 on FD's too. But shall we say my 3rd nfd 16:8. No doubt, not easy BUT in the way FD's are doable cause you know the next day you can eat what you want, you only have to wait til lunchtime. Keeping busy is key, exercise really helps to distract. I'm going for a walk, look around shops, massage (non food treat for myself for dropping 10 pound) Then home for fillet steak and frites avec
I am starving at the min, but once first cup of hot tea goes on, it'll pass. Then I've less than 2 hours before I had to prep myself for the world. Cannot believe its possible to be hungry after what could only be described as animalistic binge feast of epic & startling proportions. Ain't going near that scales til Tuesday, uh uh no way

Totally agree Mttum I mean what's the point of seeing a number on scales and nothing fitting you? You're hardly going to carry it around and say to people, I might look heavy but I only weigh x, look I'll prove it!
If you know you're doing it right, you can see it in your nsv's, you feel good, you look good - then the scales has little value on a daily or even weekly basis. Weight loss isn't always linear and the scales didn't get the message it's WI time so it better reflect it!
I have a love/hate relationship with mine. I need to break my scale jumping habit as well

Thanks for the encouragement and advice everyone. I've had a read of the tips thread and done some TDEE calculation (BMR is: 1555 TDEE is: 2138 calories).

Can I just check that I'm understanding you right - if I eat more on my NFDs, I will lose weight faster than if I eat less?

I also took your advice on checking the inches as well as the kilos, and I am a little thinner, which is pleasing. Unfortunately, the NHS only care about BMI, which is weight dependent, so I'm hoping the weight starts to go down again too.

Hi everyone, I want to start 5:2, I've got the book and really think its a good way to lose weight. BUT I can't seem to get started on it - I'm in the middle of selling our house and we've just lost our lovely old dog and am feeling stressed and a bit run down, last week I had a bad headache for 3 days so I put off starting a fast day, now I feel a bit rundown and I'm not sleeping very well. So I'm wondering if I should wait til I'm feeling less stressed etc before starting or should I try and make a start on it anyway What do people think?

CaptainMoll are you quite sure you are only 1200 on nfd's? (which is too low anyway for the WOL)
I remember from numerous ww meetings that they said if you were sure you were doing well but scsles wasnt moving, go back to basics, weigh food and drink plenty of water. If you're happy you are ticking all those bixes snd there isnt an underlying health prob - eat more, you may as well! If you are seeing inch loss then the scales will catch up. You poor thing having the bmi bs hanging over you.

Nellymay there's rarely a perfect t

Blinking phone - as I was saying, rarely a perfect time. But in my mind, you could start taking control of your weigh as let another few stressful weeks pass where you might comfort eat and start half s stone heavier. I find the control this WOL is giving me is creeping into all parts of my life. I think you'll be glad if you start. Best of luck with your decision

nelly, I think good nutritional food helps the body in times of stress so I would go for it.

JB30 Yes- I'm being honest on MFP and keeping it to around that - taking into account exercise calories spent (you know how it gives net cals?). I'm giving myself a day off thinking about calories at all once a week, though now I'm in the habit of calorie checking I sort of stop myself pigging out anyway.

My busy life and poor organisation means I eat mostly-ready made salads from M&S, pret etc, so I can be pretty certain of calorie intake.
I'm on 1200 because that's what MFP gave me as a daily intake to achieve my goal weight, but if it;s better to eat more on NFDs I'll scrap that and just stick to using it on FDs.

Nelly I found that taking control of my health/long-standing weight issues actually made life less stressful. I've been making excuses for myself for years, and reaching a point where I genuinely started positive action really lifted a load. But then, the stress for me was/is medical rather than lifestyle, so you have to do what feels right for you. It's hard to get into a pattern mid-house-moves, but then there's a lovely fresh start right there for you to kick off a new WoL.

Captain Prawn JB, you're all right -by taking control of my eating and health i may feel better and i'll have something i can hang onto when i can't see the wood for the trees in all the stress of the house moving saga.

I know that part of my insomnia and generally feeling unwell is cause i'm eating too much sugary cakes and other rubbish, so ........ I'll try to start tomorrow :) and see how i get on - i need to get some fruit and veg in, but i can pick them up in town tomorrow lunchtime.

captainmoll you have set your mfp on weight loss, set it to 0 lbs weight loss, on maintaining your weight. If you eat more, then you should lose the weight.

I don't eat my exercise calories back though (I only calorie count about once a week now on NFDs to make sure I'm still keeping my portions in check otherwise portion size starts creeping up) but then I don't exercise much either. A lot of the mfp community say to eat 75% of the calories back.

BMI is a good indicator but not the only one. I'm surprised that they have also not done a hip:waist ratio.

Exercise calories : please do NOT take them into account for 5:2
the whole point is to look at what you are actually eating.

100 star jumps does NOT cancel out a cake

The way to make MFP work best with 5:2 is to set it to "maintaining" weight : so the calorie limit is your TDEE
and then see what you are actually eating : without ANY Allowance for exercise
ESPECIALLY on fast days

case in point : on a fast day I sometimes swim a mile, do an hour of yoga and an hour of bodypump : that adds up to 750 calories burned
but I still only eat 500, not 1250

Yes, TIP, sorry I did not make it clear, I did mean on NFD. On fd, it doesnt matter what you do, you still stick to 500 calories. I think though that on NFD, it depends how much exercise you do. If you expend 750 calories doing exercise, you can eat some or all of it back, but not necessarily on the same day. So you may exercise during the week but eat extra during the weekend. Or am I completely wrong?

I don't.
I take no account of my exercise AT ALL
because when I did I used it as an excuse to over eat
my resting TDEE is 1500, my active TDEE is 1900
that is my limit for work days or gym days, no matter how much exercise I do

sotired that's sort of how I did it...stuck to TDEE, which is set at lightly active, log my exercise and go well over TDEE if we went out for a meal or just because I was having a FIF like I did last week (f* it Friday!!) I would often exercise when fasting but never eat extra.

I have now taken a leap and stopped logging food...6 weeks til we go away on hols and I don't want to be logging then so I'm going to get some practice in. I know plenty on here do 5:2 without tracking their NFD food intake but I didn't have the confidence to do that.