Having a third child... or not. I feel so angry.

[YouJane]

I am really struggling atm. My DD is 3.5 and my DS is 5.5. I am 40 years old. I have been wanting a third since my DD was born and my husband was on board for trying for a year and if it didn't happen I could make peace with that. Now, he has changed his mind after 2 months TTC and is coming down on the side of not having another - I can tell he wants to say it but doesn't want to upset me. I understand his reasons and agree with some of them, the thing is that I'm not even sure I want a third now, for various reasons. I just hate the idea that my feelings on this basically have no bearing on the outcome - if I agree with my husband, great we're on the same page, no 3rd baby! If I continue to want a third, tough luck, same outcome, no 3rd baby. I feel basically irrelevant to this process.
I cannot bear the thought of this decision being made for me and I am so upset about it. I want to be the one who says '2 is fine actually' and then work my way through it. The thought that I have had to wait for 3 years + only for him to change his mind and be completely in control of the situation is filling me with rage right now.
My husband is trying to be understanding but I'm just angry with him; he makes all the big decisions in our family - I can live with it because he is much better at that stuff than me (really) but to have even this taken away from me is too much. I basically have to sit and wait for him to flip one side or the other and it's pretty galling - it pisses me off. I want to be ok with this decision and tbh I feel like I want to take it away from HIM and upset him like this, so he can understand how I feel. I don't even know if I truly want another (I'm all over the place) but I want to say yes or no, not him. It's up to ME if I want to flipflop, not him, but it makes no difference how I feel. It's so easy for men. Plus, he keeps trying to talk to me and I'm just a mess, I just want him to leave me alone.

Ok so we only have 1 child. It took us a long time to get there and I remember thinking, and having the discussion with DH that if we could just have 1 I’d be so happy and not want/ need another.

Then DC was born and almost immediately I knew I wanted another. My husband did a bit of this flip flopping - at first no, then yes we can try for X amount of time but see what happens naturally, not go down the fertility route again.

Then after about 6 months ‘I don’t actually want another one’.

I do remember the resentment and anger. Eventually when it all came out how sad I was about not having another (I think quite a lot was an outpouring of all the stress and sadness of the years ttc in the first place too, I’d been relentlessly positive in that time and never really acknowledged the toll it was taking) he was like ‘fine, look into private IVF then’.

But by then it was too late - our chances, already slim, would not have been enough to justify putting us through it - including the DC I had as I had to think about being the best and most present mum for her, not someone spiralling with the stress of that - and I was past the age where I would have felt comfortable with the risks etc.

All that to say I understand where the feelings are coming from, and it sounds like there’s a bigger picture than just the family size decision too. But ultimately it really is just as much his choice too, and you do have to find a way to be ok with it - lots of communication and maybe some counselling?

I totally understand what you're saying OP. And the fact that you recognise that your DH has a right to an opinion too - but the trouble is that you don't both have an equal say. There is no compromise here - one of you gets their way and the other doesn't.

And in the context of whether to create another child it needs two yeses, whichever of you says no automatically gets the deciding vote. I get that that feels absolutely unfair and that your DH's opinion matters and yours doesn't, you're not crazy. Especially as you were led to believe you would try and now that's been changed overnight.

Even though I think you know all of this, emotions don't always follow rationality so I think you can be gentle with yourself that you're feeling so much rage. I would be too.

Hand the contraception over to him and let nature take it's course.

Op you have 2 beautiful children boy and girl.
Your in your 40s that means what 20 years of parenting.
Then you and your husband can go off and enjoy the next chapter of you life.
Dont you want some freedom back.

What a lovely way to bring a child into the world 🙄

My thoughts to it's both men and women that have to take responsibility for contraception.
Not just men women as well.

Hormones or not, you are being utterly contrary. Whatever your emotional or marital situation is, a third child is definitely not the answer.

No, OP. No fair is when you can't have any children.
A family who have two happy and healthy children is blessed in so many ways. Imagine how you would trash your family dynamic if you did get that third child but it had SN. Yes, families 'get on with it' and make up all kinds of BS about it being a 'superpower', but the reality is, the kids suffer, the parents get stressed, careers go down the toilet, and nobody is really happy.
You sound incredibly angry, and it seems to be stemming from way deeper than the third baby situation.

I can’t comment on the rest of your marriage but having a baby really is the one thing that any one person can veto because it is simply too big of a thing to compromise on. If it’s not an absolute yes, then it’s a no. I would really try to focus your energy more so on moving forward and coping with your own feelings x

OP, are you planning to go back to work at some point? Maybe it would help if you start thinking about this. Nothing against SAHMs, honestly - I was one myself when my children were small. But I think it may help you start to feel empowered rather than irrelevant if you start thinking about it and planning your own future. A lot of women (myself included) tend to "lose themselves" a bit during the baby years. Maybe it's time to start thinking about yourself as a person as well as a mum! For me that did involve going back to work.

I really feel your frustration. It doesn’t feel fair even if technically it is…

Do you think part of your anger is that you were pondering and then he made his decision faster? Like he had the last slice of chocolate cake on the buffet, even though you were at the buffet first?

Would it help to make it clear the decision is not yet settled, that you are still thinking? That actually while he does have a veto, it would be unhealthy for your marriage for him to exercise it?

You could make a long, ongoing list of pros and cons and add to it over time, discussing it as things occur to you? This may help you feel heard, may help him realise what he has done and understand your position, and help him repair it?

Because this isn’t a decision that stands alone. It affects your relationship and your trust in each other.

You could equally argue that the decision is yours and he can choose whether to stay and whether to have sex or not. Obviously that is also not healthy- but it’s equally reasonable.

@WallaceinAnderland

eh?? You do know condoms exist? If he doesn’t want a kid he’ll either use condoms or not have sex.

@heroinechic

see I just don’t get this - is a shag without a condom really worth having a kid you don’t want?! 20 mins (if that) of pleasure for a lifetime of hassle (and that’s how it must feel if you have a child when you don’t want one).

@PotatoBreadForTheWin

maybe he wanted to spare you all that hard work?

So you are wanting to put him in the same position as you?

you are both in the same position. It takes two yes’s to make another baby. If either of you say no then it’s no.

Huh? How is not wanting another child selfish? Are you someone who thinks other people are selfish if they don’t agree with you?

Wow, that's tough. I'm sorry you feel cheated sometimes, it's so hard when the decision is not in your control at all, and when you were supposed to be on the same page. It is difficult to force yourself to move forwards, but what other real option is there?
I keep thinking 'life's not fair. Be happy with what you've got' but then it seems like loads of people around me don't have to be satisfied with what they have and get to keep going - why do i have to be satisfied but they don't? Especially people who aren't even into the kids they do have or their partner is out making babies with other women. Gah, I'm not going down that rabbit hole, I'm rambling now, sorry...

I don't think that's what she was saying and she probably knows him pretty well to say he is selfish sometimes. I do feel it is a little cruel, having experienced similar, to essentially string a woman along saying yes to a baby and then slam the door shut. I don't think men understand what that does to a woman, whether they mean it to be cruel or not. It is kinder to just say no from the start, or talk about misgivings early. I think my husband didn't want to because he thought it would upset me and because he wasn't sure himself, so we kicked the can down the road.

I'm not 'incredibly angry' actually, I am angry, yes, and emotional but I'm not going off the deep end, truly.

"tbh I feel like I want to take it away from HIM and upset him like this"

Pot, kettle.

you clearly harbour a high amount of resentment towards your husband, and can't see the good things that you do have, only what you don't have. And you obviously feel very out of control when it comes to how your life is.

I think the ongoing effort people put into using effective contraception is fairly closely correlated with how much they want to avoid having a baby.
So a couple using condoms imperfectly (like often starting sex without one for instance) and no other contraception and probably much more at ease with the idea of having (another) baby than the couple using condoms plus the combined pill perfectly, even if both couples are theoretically trying to prevent pregnancy.

I have been wanting a third since my DD was born
This was a "woah!" moment for me.

"my husband was on board for trying for a year and if it didn't happen I could make peace with that"

He's allowed to change his mind. Especially about something like this. It sounds as though you have had very fixed ideas about how this would pan out and are not just disappointed about not having 3 children but struggling to handle everything not going to your script.

everything seems to be blamed on peri on mumsnet

Yeah, I agree. There can be a bit of a weird thing with some women though when they want another child and their partner doesn’t they gleefully inform him he’ll have to start using condoms on the assumption that he won’t and will relent and she’ll end up with a baby. In real life most men would be stockpiling the Durex!