Brexit mega thread part 15a - looking forwards

[Talkinpeace]

Just rebooting the most recent thread

At the moment the UKs issues are rather over shadowed by events elsewhere
but maybe that is a good thing.

The German election on Sunday is worth watching
Right wing European politicians pulling out of CPAC speeches because they realise its not a good look
Farage floundering to stay relevant

and the possibility of the return of free movement for our kids if not us

Relations between mainland Europe and the UK remain a worthy topic for discussion

Because they are supposed to be learning about how to function in the world, not solely their course of study (though that should of course be their primary focus)

"Why should people who do not want to work and are not claiming benefits have to ?" People who don't want to work, and have never claimed benefits, shouldn't havr to work

I am not remotely interested in whether those people want to do those jobs or any others, nor should the government be. If you are of working age, fit and able to work, and have ever received public funds then you shouldn't be given a choice in the matter.

on the friends son.... Seriously, how fucking shit at his job(s) must he have been if he's been out of work 3 times in 8 months? Losing 1 is understandable, losing 2 begins to look like carelessness...

I guess you've never done bar work

Because they are supposed to be learning about how to function in the world, not solely their course of study (though that should of course be their primary focus)

I think you'll find most students know perfectly well how to function in the world - this is just another form of the 'oh, the youth of today' lamentation, which is considerably older than the hills.

Of course many students do work - they have to, for financial reasons. However, there are plenty whose courses do not allow them to work. For example, what are you going to do about nursing students?

I'm more interested in making work possible for people who currently cannot work, or cannot work full time. Some of this has to come from employers and businesses, probably using tax breaks as an incentive. I'm actually in favour of people working; it's highly beneficial in many ways.

However, how are you going to get someone studying (which will usually be city based) to manage to get to a job picking fruit which will be somewhere remote and rural? How are you going to manage transport when this is a group of people who do not usually have flexible access to a vehicle? What are you going to do about improving public transport to get people to work, and how much will all of that cost?

And of course after all that, the demographic pyramid is still inexorably trundling on. We will always need immigrants. It would be foolish to advocate shutting the doors and building walls - isolationism doesn't help.

Students aren't claiming benefits, why should they be made to work?

You seem to have no clue about the labour market or how in practice you get people to work who don't want too, without extensive supervision.

Plus without job creation, is there even the jobs out there?

@DuncinToffee

Brexit was about controlling who enters the UK. As the population ages and birth rates decline, the UK will need more migrants who can contribute.

The key word is “contribute”. This point was made in the 5 December 2024 episode of BBC Question Time. Both Nigel Farage and Alastair Campbell agreed that it only made sense to allow migrants to enter if they are working.

@MaybeNotBob

If being in the EU is the key to immigration control, how do you explain that UK comes in fifth behind; Germany, France, Spain and Italy regards the total number of migrants who have entered.

Also, remember that available data shows the most anti migrant countries in the world, in order, are:

Austria
Germany
Netherlands
France
Sweden

@GlobeTrotter2000 remember, there are many threads on MN where you can post about your position on asylum seekers.

@Alexandra2001

Students aren't claiming benefits, why should they be made to work?

Unpaid student loans are paid by the UK taxpayer.

My stepdaughter works in the EU so she can stay off the radar and avoid repaying the student loans.

Student loans are repaid at a nominal amount after the course has finished and when earning 26k plus....

Nothing to do with getting a nmw p/t job during study.

The University of Oxford disagrees with you about students working in term time.
I believe them not you
https://academic.admin.ox.ac.uk/policies/paid-work-guidelines-graduate-students

If you are of working age, fit and able to work, and have ever received public funds then you shouldn't be given a choice in the matter.

NHS care ?
State schooling ?
Child benefit ?
Bin collections ?
Libraries ?
Oyster card discounts ?

Really ?
You want to take away the free will of the people ?

Oh deary deary me...

You only want immigrants who can contribute.

Well, EU immigrants could only come for 3 months if they weren't contributing. They would generally come and contribute for 5, maybe 10 years, and then return home. Or maybe marry and settle down here and continue to contribute.

Since we're out of the EU, we still need immigrants, but, now they have to come from the Indian subcontinent, Africa, the Far East. And they want to stay. And the want to bring their families with them. Who may well not be contributing.

But this is a result of your xenophobia.

Congratulations! You've worked so hard to cause the exact opposite of what you want! Well done you!

As the lovely Kosovan car wash man who came here as a teenage orphan told me
pre Brexit

only the desperate stay in the UK year round.
Far better to do four months work, home for two months, four months work, home for Christmas

"No recourse to public funds" doesn't precude access to NHS Care, schooling or Council service like bin collections. You probably know that.

Some very basic rights you would like to deny people.

Funnily enough, I like the fact that we don't check people's passports before saving their lives.

But maybe that's just me...

Not some, All. Nobody should have rights (obviously including me)

As stated, access to NHS care isn't impacted when someone has "no recourse to public funds"

So you'd like to deny people health care.

Nice, aren't you...

I literally just confirmed the opposite.

What is NHS care other than recourse to public funds ?

"No recourse to public funds" means an idividual has no access to certain welfare benefits. Access to NHS care is explicity not part of the exclusion so their access for anyone who is determined to have "no recourse to public funds" to NHS care is unaffected.

@MaybeNotBob

Since we're out of the EU, we still need immigrants, but, now they have to come from the Indian subcontinent, Africa, the Far East

Where in law is it specified that:

people from the EU are not allowed to enter the UK for work?

and,

UK employers may only employ migrants from; Indian subcontinent, Africa and the Far east?

@LouiseCollins28

You are correct regards the “no recourse to uk public funds” stamped in passports for those who have been granted indefinite leave to remain. It excludes schooling and NHS.

I know this because my stepdaughter was allowed to attend local school. However, her mother was not allowed vote or claim benefits.

The same applies to myself in Bulgaria. I have indefinite leave to remain, but no voting rights and no claim against Bulgarian public funds. To retire there, I will need to prove that I have somewhere to live and an income that’s greater than the Bulgarian minimum wage.

Oh dear. Junior School arguments coming to the fore again...

You are correct regards the “no recourse to uk public funds” stamped in passports for those who have been granted indefinite leave to remain. It excludes schooling and NHS.

NONE of my ILR stamps for the UK ever said that