Brexit mega thread part 15a - looking forwards

[Talkinpeace]

Just rebooting the most recent thread

At the moment the UKs issues are rather over shadowed by events elsewhere
but maybe that is a good thing.

The German election on Sunday is worth watching
Right wing European politicians pulling out of CPAC speeches because they realise its not a good look
Farage floundering to stay relevant

and the possibility of the return of free movement for our kids if not us

Relations between mainland Europe and the UK remain a worthy topic for discussion

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2025/aug/12/uk-recovers-position-horizon-europe-science-research-eu-brexit

@DuncinToffee

It’s estimated that there are approximately 395 hotels being used for asylum seekers. So, how many is “some owners or directors”?

Where is the reference to donations to reform as claimed by BobbyNoMate?

The channel tunnel was opened in May 1994. So, what’s the excitement about a link to Germany?

Globe, if you want to bash asylum seekers, there are plenty of threads for you to join.

The fact that their beloved Brexshit has caused the massive increase in asylum seekers is rapidly brushed under the carpet...

If its easy to move between countries, people come and go.
If you make it hard to get in, people come and STAY

see also the US and Mexico

to which the fairly obvious response is "Don't make it hard then...make it impossible!" and FGS get on with it.

@LouiseCollins28
You do understand that 90% of immigrants are here legally using incredibly expensive visas don't you.

Before Brexit workers came and went with the flow of jobs
now they come and stay even when the work dries up.

Are you old enough to remember Auf Weidersehn Pet ?

Agriculture and the NHS and the care sector and hospitality are BEGGING to be allowed to bring in more workers
because too many Brits are now too old to do that work.

I know what the figures are. Net Migration was +431,000 that's a city the size of Cardiff every year.

No, I'm not old enough to remember Auf Weidersehn Pet

As I always say with these Labour shortage pleas, pay people what they want to be paid to do the work, and they'll do it. If a care provider paid their care workers like a law firm pay their senior solicitors, then people would be queing up to do it.

Same with agricultural work, pay them more like stock brokers and watch the queues swell. Oh, and make sure the resulting cost difference comes out of the profits of big food co's so that it isn't immediately added to customers bills in the supermarkets.

That would be the response of a very foolish and shortsighted person who doesn't understand economics or demographics.

For our planet to survive we need fewer people, not more, for our country to prosper we need fewer people, not more. Now you might say, yes we need more working people and fewer retirees, so put young Britons to work and incentivise older people to work for longer.

The UK's natural born population has been in decline for decades
as has been that of most of Western Europe.

China and Japan and South Korea now have actively falling populations.
Western Europe has propped up its workforce with immigrants since the 1950's

The global population is falling
but the number of people needing their bottoms wiped in rich countries is rising.

Closing borders is not the solution
(nor for that matter is restricting arrivals to the men young enough and strong enough to make the journey in the back of trucks
and then letting them fester in 'hotels' getting angrier by the day)

https://www.populationpyramid.net/united-kingdom/2023/

Oh how they insisted Brexit wasn't about immigration.

If you paid care workers £15ph, instead of the current 12 or 13, that puts them up with band 5 nurses, with a degree, loan repayments, car parking costs, they want a substantial pay rise, so would HCA's Teachers Police etc etc.

Carers who had left to work in Tesco or a pub, would go back to care work....

Who is going to pay for all these wage increases?

BTW under Sunak, net migration was 1m per year.

Of course we do, but the reduction of the planet's population has to be managed carefully, not allowed to happen via chaos. This stuff isn't simple. And as has been pointed out to you, paying carers barristers' wages will only mean barristers demanding more, prices for everything skyrocketing and ultimately nothing changing.

Same with agricultural work, pay them more like stock brokers and watch the queues swell.

I'm in my seventies - however much you paid me I can guarantee that attempting to do agricultural work would lead me to doing my back in within the week if not the first morning. Most of my friends would be the same. Sixty years ago three of my grandparents had all died before the age I now am.

Love me a bit of smugness of a morning. You absolute melt.
On various people's other points. Barristers etc are already extreremely well paid and shouldn't have "more"
Clearly putting older workers into the fields isn't the plan, we have many, many working age adults who are capable of working, but aren't. Those are the people i'd be looking to.

Yet the courts system is in collapse!! under funding and pay is the cause, why do criminal work when you can earn far more in other areas of law???

Supply and demand!

You cannot make anyone work, unless you put them in a camp.... most out of work people, even in their 30s or 40s wouldn't last 5mins in agri, they don't know how to operate highly complex machinery or have the physical skills for labouring, most heavy work is done by machines now a days.

Also, many people don't live anywhere near a farm, cannot get to a Care Home, which are often no where nr a bus route and don't have a car to do adult social care in the community..... and tbh don't have a empathetic or caring nature.

So called easy solutions.... like Brexit was supposed to be, rarely are.

Absolute melt

The pretence is well and truly gone

The idea that a barrister and a care worker can earn the same amount and everyone would be happy with that is beyond bizarre. You would have to force that, which would be a bit communist.

I admit I was wondering whether @LouiseCollins28 had finally seen the light and embraced communism.

Love me a bit of smugness with the simplistic solutions!

The wonderful thing about being in the EU for the agricultural sector, was that they had a ready supply of casual labour that would come along at harvest time, live in tents or barns or wherever, and then bugger off home after a couple of months.

If you think an unemployed secretary from the East End with 2 kids is going to just up and do that, well, "melt" would be kind...

Clearly putting older workers into the fields isn't the plan, we have many, many working age adults who are capable of working, but aren't. Those are the people i'd be looking to.

If those people actually existed you might have a point
but they do not.

Out of work adults are either awaiting NHS treatment, disabled, caring for others including small children {you do support the right of women to be SAHMs don't you} or rich enough to not want labouring jobs.

I don't support any person, in the U.K. or anywhere else, having a "right" to anything. IMV people have obligations to each other, that's all, and they either discharge them or they don't.

Take these figures for exampe Who are the millions of Britons not working, and why? - BBC News

270k students out of 2M "want a job" but every last one who is able to work should be.

460k under 24s Unemployed but caring, sick or absent from the labour force for "other reasons"

Total unemplyed (all working age groups) who are not caring, sick or absent from the labour force for "other reasons" = >1.2M

You seriously telling me some public good can't be done with an otherwise unoccupied labour resource of over 1.2M people?

For context that matches almost exactly with the current number of active duty personnel serving across all branches of the United States military.

Almost 1M of them are under 50.

Why should students have jobs as well as studying ?
Many courses and universities actively discourage it because students are meant to be studying.

Why should people who do not want to work and are not claiming benefits have to ?
And WHY would they want to do the manual NMW jobs for which immigrants have been used for decades ?

Well, yes maybe some should be working...but the thing you've missed is this is a churn, its not the same 1.2m.

eg a friends son, has been out of work 3 times this year, each time for a few weeks, he does bar work....

Many people cannot work, they are unemployable, incapable of work, they can barely read or write, have addictions, undiagnosed MH issues.... now with training and support that might change but that costs money.