Brexit MegaThread - part 14

[Peregrina]

Thread 13. We had a debate about whether there should be a new one but if no one answers this the whole series after 8 years plus will come to their end.

Brexit happened, although one time Leavers do not seem to appreciate this.
It's worth noting I think that Brexit was a Tory initiative and the Tory party has just received its worse electoral thrashing since 1832. Could it be entirely unrelated?

What next? A gradual rapprochement with the EU? A Norway style agreement?

@Lonelycrab

There will be no FTA deal between the UK and US. Food standards are the issue.

So, UK will continue to trade with the US under the existing agreements.

1 million visas for qualified Indians is better than 100s of thousands arriving by boat each year at a cost of 8 million per day for free accommodation.

GlobeTrotter2000 · LouiseCollins28

You both seem unaware that you have Got your Brexit i.e. the ones successive Tory PMs negotiated.

This was clearly not to the taste of the electorate either because the Tories received the worst electoral thrashing since 1836, much worse than the thrashing that Labour got in 2019.

Who has said that the enacted result of a Referendum must be cast in stone for all time? The UKIPers never shut up, so why should we?

As for hundreds of thousands crossing in small boats - Brexiter arithmetic 29,000 last year is well short of even 100,000. But at one time we belonged to an organisation which had an agreement that such people could be returned to the first safe country they reached. The UK chose not to be a part of that, so this is one consequence.

Ah Globe, we brexited over 4 years ago, so we are now closer to it taking 45 years to see the full benefits than 50

Keep up

Free accommodation....

The mask always slips

The million Indian visa won't include the ones for dependants. And each visa holder will be allowed a house in the UK of their choice. And if it's your house the you will have to go to India in exchange. Or so ChatGPT says after some tactical prompting.

I can see now why so many people write absolute bollocks most of the time. It beats having to think about what to say.

@DuncinToffee Ah Globe, we brexited over 4 years ago, so we are now closer to it taking 45 years to see the full benefits than 50. Keep up

The statement 50 years to reap the full benefits of Brexit was made before 2020. Since 2020, there have been events that have rocked the World. For example, COVID and Russia invasion of Ukraine, which have hit everyone. Hence, discussion regards trade deals on hold whilst governments around the World grapple with day to day issues such as cost of living which have an immediate impact on people.

People who come to the UK from abroad to study have to be self financing. There is no obligation for the UK to provide free accommodation.

Likewise, people who come to the UK from abroad are not entitled to free accommodation.

@Peregrina This was clearly not to the taste of the electorate either because the Tories received the worst electoral thrashing since 1836, much worse than the thrashing that Labour got in 2019.

As per many posters on MN, people choose how to vote in a General Election based on many subjects as opposed to a single subject as may be raised in a referendum. If that's correct, then your assertion that the Tories bad result is solely due to Brexit is incorrect.

Also, you have overlooked the fact that Labour's manifesto makes it clear that the UK will not rejoin either the EU customs union or the single market. So, if people voted at the 2024 GE on Brexit alone, how did Labour win 412 seats?

Who has said that the enacted result of a Referendum must be cast in stone for all time?

Nobody that I know of. the chance to cancel Brexit or have a second referendum was presented in the 2019 General Election, but not selected.

The UKIPers never shut up, so why should we?

So, vote for the parties that want to rejoin the EU (LibDems) as opposed to; Labour (412 seats), Tories (121 seats) and reform (5 seats) making a total of 538 seats which is 82% of parliament.

@SerendipityJane And each visa holder will be allowed a house in the UK of their choice. And if it's your house the you will have to go to India in exchange. Or so ChatGPT says after some tactical prompting.

If that's not a garbage, what is? What government in the World would agree to a deal that forces people to leave their homes and move to another country?

@GlobeTrotter2000

So how many years should we add then before we will see the benefits of Brexit?

5, 10, 50?

How did Labour win 412 seats? Didn't you say you voted for them?

Ah, so Global accepts that people vote on a range of different issues at General Elections - but only when it suits their narrative!

Hypocrisy worthy of BoJo...

@Peregrina @HannibalHeyes @FrankieStein403

The 52/48 split in the 2016 referendum was superseded when the (Gina) Miller law came into force in the UK. The law established that the decision whether the UK should leave the EU had to be decided by an Act of Parliament as a whole and not solely by the Party in power.

To comply with this law, on 29 March 2017 MPs were asked to vote on whether the UK should trigger Article 50. The outcome was:

498 MPs (80%) voted to trigger Article 50.

114 MPs (20%) voted against trigger of Article.

A ratio of 4:1 is a massive majority.

@HannibalHeyes Ah, so Global accepts that people vote on a range of different issues at General Elections - but only when it suits their narrative!

Incorrect quote. My post was:

As per many posters on MN, people choose how to vote in a General Election based on many subjects as opposed to a single subject as may be raised in a referendum.

No reference was made to myself. It is the OP, Peregrina, who made the statement that Tories lost due to Brexit.

@DuncinToffee How did Labour win 412 seats? Didn't you say you voted for them?

I voted Labour due to the following:

Sunak I did not trust.
Labour pledged that UK will not rejoin the EU and acknowledged that the Tories let too many people into the UK.
After 14 years, I think it is time for a change

If Labour fail to deliver, Reform will get my next vote.

Was that another tranche of irrelevant twaddle to scroll past, perchance?

Ofcourse it was all about immigration after all

Ponders if globe would call themselves a migrant or expat 🤔

More likely a loyal Russian citizen...

I actually said that the Tories - the architects of the current Brexit received an absolute thrashing, which cannot be denied. Who knows exactly why? One thing which can be asked is if Johnson's Brexit was so wonderful why are we not now enjoying a period of heightened prosperity?

Agreed, I'm not denying it.

On "Johnson's Brexit", the answer is obvious. It took 4 years longer than it should have done to actually do Brexit because Parliament opposed it all the way so we're 4 years behind to start with. Also we've had the Covid pandemic, economic downturn and a European war in the time since Brexit actually happened. That's why no "heightened prosperity" yet. Also we've done very little actual divergence, in order to prosper we need to diverge from EU othordoxy.

Ofcourse it was all about immigration after all

Maybe it was? I remember the tabloids blaming immigration for many things in the run up to the 2016 referendum. However, why each of the 33.4 million voted in the 2016 referendum will never be known.

The EU is also suffering from immigration. A link is:

Migration returns to the top of the EU's agenda but the same old political divisions remain | Euronews

Sensible Switzerland, with foresight regards the effect that excess immigration can have on wages and welfare, have made it their policy never to join the EU. Has Switzerland done well from that policy? Without doubt.

onders if globe would call themselves a migrant or expat

To people in the UK, I am looked upon as Expat. When in other Countries, I am given the title - highly skilled migrant.

[] What government in the World would agree to a deal that forces people to leave their homes and move to another country?

I believe the UK government agreed something like that behalf of Palestinians in 1947.

If that's not a garbage, what is?

But you managed to miss me actually saying it was garbage to start with:

Or so ChatGPT says after some tactical prompting.

@Peregrina the architects of the current Brexit received an absolute thrashing, which cannot be denied. Who knows exactly why?

That's a complete backpedal from the suggestion that Tories bad result was solely due to Brexit.

@LouiseCollins28

It took 4 years longer than it should have done to actually do Brexit because Parliament opposed it all the way so we're 4 years behind to start with.

Exactly. Labour were the biggest culprits. They thought if they switched from supporting to leave to supporting remain, they could force and win a general election. Formation of the Brexit party in 2019 knackered that idea.

Also we've had the Covid pandemic, economic downturn and a European war in the time since Brexit actually happened. That's why no "heightened prosperity" yet.

Exactly again. However, Peregrina has stated in the past that as COVID and the wars affected all countries, they could not be used to explain why Brexit has not yet appeared.

Also we've done very little actual divergence, in order to prosper we need to diverge from EU othordoxy.

The current TCA (which according to some may be ripped up in 2026) prevents such divergence on goods. The EU did not want the UK to be able to undercut EU prices on similar goods. However, the UK services sector has boomed as their are not subject to the TCA.

16 days late and £350 millionx16 short .... it's the Daily Fail

Maybe they should send the bill to N. Farage, Cunt Tower, Clacton ?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13755291/EU-red-tape-costs-fledgling-British-cargo-airline-Brexit-rules.html

@GlobeTrotter2000

Like me, you are an immigrant.

That's a complete backpedal from the suggestion that Tories bad result was solely due to Brexit.

Not at all. I reminded you that you had got your Brexit - although you do seem to find it difficult to accept this. Johnson and Gove were the key architects. Johnson kicked out many Remainer Tories from the party in 2019.

Five years on the Party gets a complete thrashing. Nowhere do I say that this was because of Brexit, and certainly not solely, but this is an inference you have made. I have to wonder why.

I don't doubt that for many Johnson and Partygate were one reason for the thrashing. Too many people, myself included, have lost loved ones to Covid. We obeyed the rules; he didn't.

Indeed, as has been pointed out, people vote on many different issues in a General Election.

And there were certainly many reasons to loathe the Tory party, Brexshit being just one of them...

I had a big long list of CURRENT issues that stopped me voting Tory.
I had a shorter list of issues to stop me voting for the other parties.
I doubt I was alone

The EU is taking control of their borders

https://www.thetimes.com/article/9c8f0297-62ba-41a8-ac5f-9fc56350cf32?shareToken=377c83c1369cfbdcfc25718021bf58e1

The EES system was agreed ten years ago, when the UK was still a member of the EU. At the time, British passport holders would not have been subject to the additional checks.

How long will it be before the Brexit apologists come along and say that so what it's only 7 €?

I wonder who first proposed the idea? It is the sort of idea the British Government would have loved. Keep all them pesky furriners out. Oh, we didn't think that would apply to us because we held all the cards.