Can someone give me one benefit of Brexit.

[Tulipsroses]

It's going to be 4 years since we withdrew our membership in European Union. Apart from the passport colour (some people might prefer) can anyone name one positive change which happened since then.

@HappiestSleeping

Take a look at

While the US dominates the upper end of the list, with New York taking the number one spot, London continues to lead in Europe.7 nov. 2023

Europe's top financial centres: Where's best to do business?

Link is:

Europe’s top financial centres: Where’s best to do business? | Euronews

Geneva (also not in the EU) is second in the EU and 10 globally.

Frankfurt and Paris are 14th and 15th globally.

I remember it was forecast over 100,000 financial jobs would be lost due to Brexit, but the actual figure was less than 8,000. So, you have been one of the unlucky 8,000. Hence you can say from personal experience that you are worse off due to Brexit.

That isn't the whole story though as the current government couldn't run a bath, and I'm not convinced the opposition would do much better.

That's the punchline.

Wherever you have got the number of 8000 jobs lost, it is inaccurate. I personally worked in an institution that moved 4000+ jobs abroad, and know there were similar numbers in comparable organisations where my friends worked. If you go to London, there is a very large building in Canary Wharf that used to have the name of a large financial institution plastered across the top of it. That will soon not be the case anymore (if not already), and that building on its own housed about 8000 people.

Have all of those jobs gone because of Brexit? Of course not, however you can't close half a building, so there are other aspects that were all triggered by Brexit uncertainty.

In the interests of balance here, it is easy to find evidence that proves whichever way your argument goes. The reality is that financial institutions do not like risk. In the period between the referendum and the actual deal (if you can call it a deal) being struck, which was a period of years, there was uncertainty. The financial institutions all managed that risk by moving jobs abroad, however the statistics you are looking at will not show those as a consequence of Brexit as they will only look at jobs that moved after the deal was signed and they will say anything that happened before then couldn't possibly be a consequence as the deal wasn't done. This is clearly rubbish as the trigger was undoubtedly the uncertainty caused by Brexit.

Also, you have to keep in mind that you figure quotes jobs from London. I my instance, I didn't work in London, you you need to widen to the whole of the UK. If you take this into consideration, the estimates are more like 75,000 jobs. Admittedly, not quite as bad as predicted, but still pretty devastating.

It's the same with the growth. Many of the articles you are quoting actually prove that Brexit was a bad thing as growth has not been as abundant as it would have been without Brexit, however it appears that you are only seeing the growth part and choosing to ignore the part that says that the UK growth would have been better if we had not chosen to depart from our biggest trading market. Mitsubishi have chosen to withdraw completely from selling cars in the UK, why would they do that if our prospects are so good? In balance again, some manufacturers are still investing here, but only because the government now have to bribe them with terms that make it difficult to say no. How is that a good thing? If we had remained, that bribe money could have been spent supporting UK businesses and promoting further growth.

As I have said repeatedly on this thread and on others, this is a pointless debate as I doubt I will change your mind (despite there being significant evidence, some of which has actually been provided by your good self), and you will not change mine (especially as you have yet to provide any compelling evidence that Brexit has been beneficial because there isn't any, as all you've been able to provide is evidence that it isn't as bad as predicted, not that it is beneficial).

To get back to the original question by the OP, I have only seen the one benefit of the removal of tampon tax, and even that is tenuous as the EU are doing that anyway. By the way, I don't count Bob the builder saying that they're getting more work as a benefit. While I'm pleased for them, a true benefit has to affect a significant number of people, I.e the tampon tax removal which affects a large proportion of menstruating women. I think we can at least agree that point?

So pleased to see that the sunlit uplands and Brexit benefits have not changed recently.

Leave supporters may argue that Brexit has not had a fair crack of the whip due to World events such as COVID and wars pushing up energy prices.

Leave voters do try to sully the waters with this argument, but they are events which have affected much of the world. If Brexit was so good, the UK would be booming when all other countries were languishing behind. That we are not tells its own story.

Leave supporters may argue that Brexit has not had a fair crack of the whip due to World events such as COVID and wars pushing up energy prices.

The problem with trying to push that crock of shit is that before the referendum, one of the predicates for Brexiteers when asked about how wise it was to leave the EU in an ever changing world was to reply "fuck off, we can deal with anything".

In fact, those of us who were conscious during the pandemic will recall the whoops of joy from Brexiteers that the UK was free of the yoke of European dogma.

So if they want to retrospectively rewrite history, they can - being charitable - shove it up their union jack arses and hold their peace.

@Peregrina Leave voters dotry to sully the waters with this argument, but they are events which have affected much of the world.

You need to remember the timeline:

UK leaves the EU 31 Jan 2020 with transition period to 31 Dec 2020

COVID begins to take hold of the World middle of March 2020

COVIDS begins to come under control in early 2022.

Russia invades the Ukraine Feb 2022 and the War is ongoing

Hamas attacks Israel October 2023 and the War continues. Spokesman for Israel on BBC last night indicated the War could last many more months.

Countries around the World are most likely dealing with their immediate needs as opposed to making long term plans.

If Brexit was so good, the UK would be booming when all other countries were languishing behind. That we are not tells its own story.

I refer you to the timeline above. Also, I would add:

The only EU member that has a larger economy that the UK is Germany as was the case before 2016.

As per Euronews.com, Germany is the worst performing developed Country. Also, as per Euronews, the unemployment rate in France is 7.3%. UK is 4%. Eurozone average is 6.4%. In Spain, there are 17% either not working or studying.

So, in some ways, other comparable size EU members are behind the UK.

That both France and Spain want the 90/180 Schengen rules to be relaxed for UK citizens suggests that both are missing what UK citizens could spend in their countries before Brexit

That Mogg guy estimated that it could take 50 years for the full benefit of Brexit to be realised.

You need to remember the timeline.

Why ?

@SerendipityJane The problem with trying to push that crock of shit is that before the referendum, one of the predicates for Brexiteers when asked about how wise it was to leave the EU in an ever changing world was to reply "fuck off, we can deal with anything"

The referendum was held 23 June 2016. Neither the leave nor the remain campaign could know that four years later there would be a Worldwide COVID pandemic. Nor in 2016 could they know that Russia would invade the Ukraine almost six years later.

Did, in 2016, the EU or anyone else know there would be a COVID pandemic in 2020?

For the portion of your post I have highlighted in Bold Italic, are there any links or references?

.

The only real measure of Brexit is bollocks, surely ?

@GlobeTrotter2000 I was so excited when I saw there had been lots of new posts on this thread, imagining that some Brexit benefits had been found. Oh well.

What you talking about? Haven't you heard about the pint of wine? And err... all the other benefits...

It's quite simple really, things happened so Brexit wasn't very good, then some more things happened so Brexit carried on not being very good, and the chances are that more things will keep happening so Brexit will never be any good. See, it's things fault, for constantly happening.

@GlobeTrotter2000

That Mogg guy estimated that it could take 50 years for the full benefit of Brexit to be realised.

This is what I mean about you proving the point of remain. Not many of us will be alive in 50 years, including Mogg, so this point actually proves what a bad idea it was, and not what a good idea it was. Also, I would point out that even Mogg didn't immediately step forward with "here's my plan now that we have won", and it took him a while to come up with "it will probably be fine in about 50 years when nobody here is alive or has the capacity to remember"

Also, you appear very keen to point out that the referendum was in 2016, and then the pandemic hit in 2020. I agree that the pandemic was a significant global event, however I am missing where all the Brexit benefits were in the 4 years between the referendum and the pandemic. And I know that a deal wasn't struck by then, which is another demonstration of how shit the leave side were as they didn't have a plan, but it is also because there haven't been any benefits and the pandemic has been a very convenient obfuscation that has hidden the lack of benefits.

Global events will always happen. The world is unpredictable. People like Bannon and Rees Mogg's dad (who RM modelled his thinking on) wanted to create more chaos in order to capitalise on it. The problem with chaos is its chaotic and impossible to control.

If however, youre argument is that it couldnt work because of global events and that Brexit was dependent on perfect conditions to work then it's a pretty bad idea.

Ah, yes. Global events happen. So it's obviously sensible to not be in your local trading bloc which happens to be the richest, and most powerful in the world. Yes, that's obviously a bright idea...

It really is quite surprising and a nasty trick of foreigners to keep making things happen.

I have yet to have the opportunity to buy a pint of wine perhaps @GlobeTrotter2000 could help me identify a shop that sells them.

I think you'll find most wine is sold in pints with an added 32% extra for free.

I tried asking a shop assistant earlier for a pint of wine. They looked at me as if I had gone mad.

Is entertaining shop assistants a Brexit benefit?

https://www.kosherwinecellar.co.uk/wine-type-c1/red-wine-c2/500ml-t77

I quite agree.
If brexit will only work when the conditions are perfect then it's obviously stupid.

https://www.theguardian.com/food/2023/dec/29/english-wine-producers-unlikely-to-adopt-redundant-pint-option

@HappiestSleeping Mogg guy estimated that it could take 50 years for the full benefit of Brexit to be realised.

This is what I mean about you proving the point of remain. Not many of us will be alive in 50 years, including Mogg, so this point actually proves what a bad idea it was, and not what a good idea it was

Remain forecast it would be an immediate disaster just by a vote to leave as per the Treasury report issued before the referendum. However, as demonstrated in earlier posts, very few of the instant disaster events occurred, if any at all.

Germany is reported to be the worst performing devloped country in the World since the Russian invasion, but I recall a poster on this thread advocating that the pain to be suffered by Germany will be worth it eventually.

The phrase, Rome was not built in a day, comes to mind.

however I am missing where all the Brexit benefits were in the 4 years between the referendum and the pandemic.

An event has to happen before it can be established whether it was good or bad. UK left the EU on 31 January 2020 with a transition period to 31 December 2020 four and a half years after the referendum.

The first known cases of COVID in the UK were recorded on 29 January 2020 and lockdowns commenced middle of March 2020. Link is:

COVID-19 Timeline - British Foreign Policy Group (bfpg.co.uk)

So, it was not possible to have any Brexit benefits between the referendum and the pandemic as UK was not fully out of the EU until 31 December 2020, nine months after lockdowns commenced in March 2020.

And I know that a deal wasn't struck by then, which is another demonstration of how shit the leave side were as they didn't have a plan

You need to take this up with David Cameron. He was both the UK PM and a remain supporter who made the binding commitment to every UK household:

This is your decision. The Government will implment what you decide.

That aside, the UK had to trigger Article 50 before any negotiations could begin regards settlements and trade deals. This was confirmed by the Irish MEP, Mairead McGuiness, on the QT episode 4 April 2019 in reply to Fiona Bruce's question whether the EU had made things worse by demanding that UK must first trigger Article 50

So, at the time of the referendum in June 2016, it was not possible to know in advance what the final leave deal would be.

but it is also because there haven't been any benefits

The above statement is understandable for anyone who has lost their job due to brexit, but it does not prove that nobody has benefited from Brexit. On the subject of unemployment in the UK, ONS figures are:

5.5% in 2015
4.2% in 2023

A rose (or rosé ? ) by any other name ?