Page 26 | Can someone give me one benefit of Brexit.

Tulipsroses · 2023-12-05T18:54:16+00:00

It's going to be 4 years since we withdrew our membership in European Union. Apart from the passport colour (some people might prefer) can anyone name one positive change which happened since then.

jgw1 · 21/12/2023 20:12

Zonder · 21/12/2023 19:57

What are you trying to prove with this post? It was I was responding to even back then! You brought up the referendum and whether it was advisory or not. Still you derailing back then, not me.

I'm beginning to think it's a comprehension issue not just a love of non sequiturs!

Show quote history

The point being proven is that one can go round in circles for no apparently good reason.

It is in that sense rather like the dancing around why a 56 year old needed a birthday party and then had to lie about it, when millions of children could not, the answer seemed to lie in house plants.

Are house plants involved in Brexit?

jgw1 · 21/12/2023 20:13

GlobeTrotter2000 · 21/12/2023 20:10

@jgw1 Has anyone found any more benefits of Brexit other than a housing crisis in Paris?

Take a look at this link

Housing crisis in paris - Recherche Google

The headline was

Housing crisis: Are you prepared to wait 6 months to rent a studio in Paris? It takes six months on average before being able to rent a furnished studio apartment in Paris, according to recent data. Many European cities are facing a crisis when it comes to the number of flats up for grabs in an ever-growing population.

Is the ever-growing population a result of Brexit?

We are well aware thanks to other contributions to this thread that Paris now has a housing crisis as a result of people suddenly being able to live in both Paris and London.

What is less clear is whether a housing crisis in France is considered by Brexiteers to be a benefit of Brexit. Perhaps you are able to help on that matter @GlobeTrotter2000

GlobeTrotter2000 · 21/12/2023 20:47

@Peregrina If they wanted to make it legally binding, they should specify so in the Act..

Or specify that it is advisory as per the 2015 EU referendum Act. Further to the Miller case November 2016, it was ruled that Parliament should decide whether or not the UK should leave the EU. They did so on 29 March 2017 when 498 MP's voted to invoke Article 50.

GlobeTrotter2000 · 21/12/2023 20:56

@jgw1

Look at

France's current housing crisis was predictable (lemonde.fr)

Key point seems to be

But the government is also to blame. Past and present housing policies have failed to anticipate the fundamental changes that have been taking place in French society for decades. Population growth, households breaking up, the explosion in the number of students and demand being concentrated in the most attractive areas have all exacerbated housing problems. Due to a lack of political action, France − regardless of who is in power − hasn't built enough to keep pace with these changes. Just like with education and health care, yesteryear's procrastination is being felt now.

Lack of planning going back decades looks to be the root cause. As the UK left the EU less than 4 years ago, I don't think the housing crisis in France can be attributed to Brexit

France's current housing crisis was predictable

EDITORIAL. France has not built enough housing to keep pace with the changes taking place in our society. The effect of the government's procrastination is now being felt.

https://www.lemonde.fr/en/opinion/article/2023/09/07/france-s-current-housing-crisis-was-predictable_6127460_23.html#:~:text=Population%20growth%2C%20households%20breaking%20up,keep%20pace%20with%20these%20changes.

jgw1 · 21/12/2023 21:05

GlobeTrotter2000 · 21/12/2023 20:56

@jgw1

Look at

France's current housing crisis was predictable (lemonde.fr)

Key point seems to be

But the government is also to blame. Past and present housing policies have failed to anticipate the fundamental changes that have been taking place in French society for decades. Population growth, households breaking up, the explosion in the number of students and demand being concentrated in the most attractive areas have all exacerbated housing problems. Due to a lack of political action, France − regardless of who is in power − hasn't built enough to keep pace with these changes. Just like with education and health care, yesteryear's procrastination is being felt now.

Lack of planning going back decades looks to be the root cause. As the UK left the EU less than 4 years ago, I don't think the housing crisis in France can be attributed to Brexit

That's fair enough.
There was a poster earlier in the thread suggesting that Paris' housing crisis was a direct result of people now working in Paris and London, that was why I was wondering, so not a Brexit benefit. Shame, just when I thought we had foudn one.

Zonder · 21/12/2023 23:14

jgw1 · 21/12/2023 20:12

The point being proven is that one can go round in circles for no apparently good reason.

It is in that sense rather like the dancing around why a 56 year old needed a birthday party and then had to lie about it, when millions of children could not, the answer seemed to lie in house plants.

Are house plants involved in Brexit?

Show quote history

This is to @GlobeTrotter2000 - I picked the wrong quote!

Are you suggesting that some of these things should be dropped, swept under the carpet, when they actually are pretty important to a lot of people who stuck to the rules? Are you suggesting we should just forget about that arse having birthday parties when he told everyone else not to? It certainly seems like that.

Thankfully a lot of people are not willing to forget the wrongs that were done back then and still hope for some kind of justice.

Peregrina · 22/12/2023 07:18

Further to the Miller case November 2016, it was ruled that Parliament should decide whether or not the UK should leave the EU. They did so on 29 March 2017 when 498 MP's voted to invoke Article 50.

And your point being? We have got Brexit now. The form of Brexit we have may not be to your taste, but we are no longer in the EU.

GlobeTrotter2000 · 22/12/2023 08:29

@Zonder Thankfully a lot of people are not willing to forget the wrongs that were done back then and still hope for some kind of justice.

i guess you are referring to what has named Partygate. Over 100,000+ fixed penalty notices were issued to persons in the UK for their failure to observe the lockdown rules. Fines varied depending on the number times people offended.

I would guess that there were a lot more than 100,000 offenders in the UK, but not all were caught and found guilty. A bar near where I live allowed people through the back door and no music was played. Only immediate family members were allowed to sit at the same table and the tables were spread out well. Masks were compulsory.

If people paid the fines issued, then justice has been done. Sunak, Johnson and his girlfriend, Carrie, were all fined I remember

Zonder · 22/12/2023 08:37

If people paid the fines issued, then justice has been done. Sunak, Johnson and his girlfriend, Carrie, were all fined I remember

Interesting. That's like saying all the children who swore at the teacher got detention. The children who suggested that rule and went on and on swearing at the teachers persistently while telling other children off for doing it also got one detention, so justice has been done.

You might find this article interesting.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/may/20/boris-johnson-and-partygate-how-did-pm-only-get-one-fine

Boris Johnson and Partygate: how did PM get only one fine?

Experts say it defies logic but Johnson attended gatherings deemed to have breached the rules without himself being fined

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/may/20/boris-johnson-and-partygate-how-did-pm-only-get-one-fine

GlobeTrotter2000 · 22/12/2023 08:49

@Peregrina And your point being? We have got Brexit now. The form of Brexit we have may not be to your taste, but we are no longer in the EU.

Refererence to the Miller case and 498 MPs voting to invoke Article 50, was a reply to your statement that the debate over whether the referendum was advisory or binding was now sterile.

Some supporters have echoed that MPs are duty bound to act in the UK’s best interests regardless of what voters may say as detailed in the letter provided by 1,000 lawyers.

I would say that MPs primary responsibility is to preserve democracy.

If fullfact is correct, Approx. 400 constituencies voted to leave in the 2016 referendum. Fullfact also estimated that Approx. 5 million Labour voters voted to leave.

When it was ruled that Parliament had to decide whether the UK should leave the EU, 498 (76%) voted to invoke Article 50. This is much higher than the 400 constituencies and the 52% in the referendum.

So, the conclusion is that MPs were more convinced than voters that leaving the EU was in the best interests of the UK.

GlobeTrotter2000 · 22/12/2023 09:31

@Zonder That's like saying all the children who swore at the teacher got detention.

I was caned at school for being heard swearing in the corridor. Caning was allowed at that time, but was subsequently abolished.

@Zonder The children who suggested that rule and went on and on swearing at the teachers persistently while telling other children off for doing it also got one detention,

When I was at school, rules were made by the headmaster/headmistress, not the children.

If you read the article you provided, FPN were investigated and issued by the police. Courts were not involved. In Johnson's case the article uses phrases like:

"....reportedly poured drinks.."

"And the prime minister appears to have attended six of them."

That does not sound like evidence to me.

The Article also records:

It is one of the several curiosities of Partygate that it involved huge stakes, not least the political survival of a prime minister, while simultaneously being centred on what are, in strictly legal terms, relatively low-level offences.

“Yes, this was people breaking rules they had made themselves, which is important,” one criminal lawyer noted, speaking anonymously. “But at that the same time, you can very easily be fined more for parking on a double yellow line.”

I think the point the anonymous lawyer is making is:

Mountains from molehills because a high profile person was involved

I would say it was desperation by remain supporters to argue that Brexit should be cancelled as the PM who advocated to get Brexit done is a criminal. Therefore his judgement can't be trusted.

Again, a poinltess argument as UK lawmakers decided on 29 March 2017 that it was the UK's best interest to leave the EU. Johnson did not become PM until over two years later in July 2019.

Peregrina · 22/12/2023 09:35

Globetrotter2000
Have you heard the expression 'Flogging a dead horse'? It seems you haven't. Brexit has been done. You are struggling to tell us any benefits.

You do seem to have your own views of how MPs ought to behave i.e. how you happen to think, which doesn't appear to accord with such rules as there are.

It's a pity that we elected people and expected them to behave like 'good chaps' when people like Johnson didn't do so to put it mildly.

Zonder · 22/12/2023 09:56

Well @GlobeTrotter2000 there really does seem to be a bit of point missing here. Whether deliberate or due to poor comprehension I'm just not sure. I won't be reading your future posts as the consistent derailment and point missing is disappointing.

jgw1 · 22/12/2023 11:29

GlobeTrotter2000 · 22/12/2023 08:29

@Zonder Thankfully a lot of people are not willing to forget the wrongs that were done back then and still hope for some kind of justice.

i guess you are referring to what has named Partygate. Over 100,000+ fixed penalty notices were issued to persons in the UK for their failure to observe the lockdown rules. Fines varied depending on the number times people offended.

I would guess that there were a lot more than 100,000 offenders in the UK, but not all were caught and found guilty. A bar near where I live allowed people through the back door and no music was played. Only immediate family members were allowed to sit at the same table and the tables were spread out well. Masks were compulsory.

If people paid the fines issued, then justice has been done. Sunak, Johnson and his girlfriend, Carrie, were all fined I remember

@GlobeTrotter2000 do you expect people who make laws to obey them?
Do you expect that those in charge will be honest?

Why did a 56 year old man need a birthday party and then to lie about it when he was not allowing millions of children to have birthday parties?

jgw1 · 22/12/2023 11:30

GlobeTrotter2000 · 22/12/2023 08:49

@Peregrina And your point being? We have got Brexit now. The form of Brexit we have may not be to your taste, but we are no longer in the EU.

Refererence to the Miller case and 498 MPs voting to invoke Article 50, was a reply to your statement that the debate over whether the referendum was advisory or binding was now sterile.

Some supporters have echoed that MPs are duty bound to act in the UK’s best interests regardless of what voters may say as detailed in the letter provided by 1,000 lawyers.

I would say that MPs primary responsibility is to preserve democracy.

If fullfact is correct, Approx. 400 constituencies voted to leave in the 2016 referendum. Fullfact also estimated that Approx. 5 million Labour voters voted to leave.

When it was ruled that Parliament had to decide whether the UK should leave the EU, 498 (76%) voted to invoke Article 50. This is much higher than the 400 constituencies and the 52% in the referendum.

So, the conclusion is that MPs were more convinced than voters that leaving the EU was in the best interests of the UK.

@GlobeTrotter2000 I am glad that you have worked out that Brexit has happened, although interestingly not all aspects of it have been implemented by the UK.
Other that Parisiens being able to work from home are there any other benefits of this upheaval?

Kendodd · 22/12/2023 12:06

jgw1 · 22/12/2023 11:30

@GlobeTrotter2000 I am glad that you have worked out that Brexit has happened, although interestingly not all aspects of it have been implemented by the UK.
Other that Parisiens being able to work from home are there any other benefits of this upheaval?

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We can pump as much shit as we want into the sea now?
Hopefully the death of the British fishing industry?
5p off the price of tampons? That should save women about a £1 a year.
Err...

dreamingdays · 22/12/2023 13:02

Kendodd · 22/12/2023 12:06

We can pump as much shit as we want into the sea now?
Hopefully the death of the British fishing industry?
5p off the price of tampons? That should save women about a £1 a year.
Err...

Show quote history

Ironic about the supposed "fishing benefits". A friend who worked his whole life in the industry voted for Brexit as he thought it would be fairer to british fisherman as he'd said how joining the EU had in the past caused issues for them. However I understand that since Brexit it has been even harder for the industry and has had none of the supposed benefits.

GlobeTrotter2000 · 22/12/2023 13:22

@jgw1 Do you expect that those in charge will be honest?

In a perfect World, that be a reasonable expectation. However, the World is not perfect, and corruption will continue to exist for as long as there are people on the planet.

MPs have been jailed for dishonesty and public opinion of the UK police force seems to be low.

As the anonymous criminal lawyer commented, parking offences can result in larger fines than those issued for violation of COVID restrictions.

I had several parking fines and points on my license for jumping a red light, but I don’t have a criminal record as fines were paid when due and points have expired.

Inquiry into Tony Blair’s decision to go into Iraq concluded that there was not a good case for war, but he was not jailed or even fined even though his decision resulted in deaths.

jgw1 · 22/12/2023 13:29

GlobeTrotter2000 · 22/12/2023 13:22

@jgw1 Do you expect that those in charge will be honest?

In a perfect World, that be a reasonable expectation. However, the World is not perfect, and corruption will continue to exist for as long as there are people on the planet.

MPs have been jailed for dishonesty and public opinion of the UK police force seems to be low.

As the anonymous criminal lawyer commented, parking offences can result in larger fines than those issued for violation of COVID restrictions.

I had several parking fines and points on my license for jumping a red light, but I don’t have a criminal record as fines were paid when due and points have expired.

Inquiry into Tony Blair’s decision to go into Iraq concluded that there was not a good case for war, but he was not jailed or even fined even though his decision resulted in deaths.

So you wouldn't condemn someone who introduced a law, then night after night told us all how important it was to stick to the law, but was himself breaking it frequently and then went on to lie to parliament about the lawbreaking.

Strange morals.

Anyway, if we may concentrate on the question of this thread? Any update on when we can expect another Brexit benefit to be revealed to us?

GlobeTrotter2000 · 22/12/2023 13:31

@jgw1 @Kendodd @Peregrina

Some posters have described the positives they have experienced since Brexit. Examples have included:

Being able to buy a house in the UK.
Pay rises
Less travel between the UK and Brussels
Stamps in passports help to prove residency for tax purposes.
Hybrid working which is the combined effect of Brexit and COVID at the same time.

If other posters disagree with those examples, that’s their entitlement.

jgw1 · 22/12/2023 13:34

GlobeTrotter2000 · 22/12/2023 13:31

@jgw1 @Kendodd @Peregrina

Some posters have described the positives they have experienced since Brexit. Examples have included:

Being able to buy a house in the UK.
Pay rises
Less travel between the UK and Brussels
Stamps in passports help to prove residency for tax purposes.
Hybrid working which is the combined effect of Brexit and COVID at the same time.

If other posters disagree with those examples, that’s their entitlement.

So a small numebr of people have derived some limited benefits.

I struggle to see why it was necessary to have so much upheaval so a small number of people don't have to travel to Brussels, they could after all, just have got a different job.

GlobeTrotter2000 · 22/12/2023 13:37

@jgw1 but was himself breaking it frequently and then went on to lie to parliament about the lawbreaking.

As per the article provided by Zonder, Johnson appeared to have attended six meetings and was reportedly pouring drinks. That’s not evidence in my book. He was fined for the meeting that was proved.

jgw1 · 22/12/2023 13:39

GlobeTrotter2000 · 22/12/2023 13:37

@jgw1 but was himself breaking it frequently and then went on to lie to parliament about the lawbreaking.

As per the article provided by Zonder, Johnson appeared to have attended six meetings and was reportedly pouring drinks. That’s not evidence in my book. He was fined for the meeting that was proved.

Is being fined for breaking the law evidence that you have broken the law @GlobeTrotter2000
You seem a little confused.

GlobeTrotter2000 · 22/12/2023 13:45

@jgw1 So a small numebr of people have derived some limited benefits

Maybe the number of posts that describe benefits is small as people don’t post at all due accusations of being;

*uckwits
gullible
racists

@jgw1 they could after all, just have got a different job.

Maybe walking into another job is not as easy as you think? Ask the poster Happiestsleeping for their opinion.

Daftasabroom · 22/12/2023 14:00

GlobeTrotter2000 · 22/12/2023 13:31

@jgw1 @Kendodd @Peregrina

Some posters have described the positives they have experienced since Brexit. Examples have included:

Being able to buy a house in the UK.
Pay rises
Less travel between the UK and Brussels
Stamps in passports help to prove residency for tax purposes.
Hybrid working which is the combined effect of Brexit and COVID at the same time.

If other posters disagree with those examples, that’s their entitlement.

Hahaha, sorry buts laughable:

Being able to buy a house in the UK. - I bought my house while we in the EU. Nothing to do with Brexit.

Pay rises, that haven't kept up with inflation.

Less travel between the UK and Brussels. Hardly universal - few in the UK have been to Brussels compared to Costa de Sol for instance, maybe expats might have some comments on this.

Stamps in passports help to prove residency for tax purposes. If you'd been prepared to queue you could've had a stamp - guess what for the vast vast majority there was no benefit. How many people need to prove residency pre Brexit?

Hybrid working which is the combined effect of Brexit and COVID at the same time. Can you prove any link whatsoever between Brexit and hybrid working?